A Dubliner's planning application in Greystones

Black_Fire

We're considering to move to Wicklow and like Greystones/Delgany region. We've come across some nice parcels of land on sale but are wondering if we'd get planning consent since we've always lived in Dublin?
Some land comes with and without planning permission and some may even require rezoning.

If anyone has experience in this, would much appreciate feedback!

Black_Fire

Woshy

From friends experiences it is extremely difficult to get planning permission in Wicklow. They want you to have very strong ties to the community.

From what they were told it would be nearly impossible to get planning permission to build if you aren't from the area. That was 3-4 years ago but I can't imagine much has changed.

Graham

Mod Note

OP, I have moved your thread to construction & planning.

loyatemu

Woshy wrote: »

From friends experiences it is extremely difficult to get planning permission in Wicklow. They want you to have very strong ties to the community.

From what they were told it would be nearly impossible to get planning permission to build if you aren't from the area. That was 3-4 years ago but I can't imagine much has changed.

that's rural Wicklow. You'd have to check with the council to see if that restriction applies to a particular site.

Black_Fire

Thanks for your reply...

I was reading more into this discriminatory behavior by certain councils and how it falls directly out of line with the EU's directives after I came across this article: https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/chance-discovery-spells-end-of-locals-only-restriction-on-one-off-housing-450596.html

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons
Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992. The gradual phasing-out of internal borders under the Schengen agreements was followed by the adoption of Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of EU citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the EU. Notwithstanding the importance of this right, substantial implementation obstacles persist, 10 years after the deadline for implementation of the Directive.

From reading this, its only a matter of time before the walls will crumble on their restrictive illegal planning dogma.

loyatemu

Black_Fire wrote: »

Thanks for your reply...

I was reading more into this discriminatory behavior by certain councils and how it falls directly out of line with the EU's directives after I came across this article: https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/chance-discovery-spells-end-of-locals-only-restriction-on-one-off-housing-450596.html

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons
Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992. The gradual phasing-out of internal borders under the Schengen agreements was followed by the adoption of Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of EU citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the EU. Notwithstanding the importance of this right, substantial implementation obstacles persist, 10 years after the deadline for implementation of the Directive.

From reading this, its only a matter of time before the walls will crumble on their restrictive illegal planning dogma.

are you looking for practical advice or a political debate?

sydthebeat

Black_Fire wrote: »

Thanks for your reply...

I was reading more into this discriminatory behavior by certain councils and how it falls directly out of line with the EU's directives after I came across this article: https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/chance-discovery-spells-end-of-locals-only-restriction-on-one-off-housing-450596.html

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons
Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992. The gradual phasing-out of internal borders under the Schengen agreements was followed by the adoption of Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of EU citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the EU. Notwithstanding the importance of this right, substantial implementation obstacles persist, 10 years after the deadline for implementation of the Directive.

From reading this, its only a matter of time before the walls will crumble on their restrictive illegal planning dogma.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

fine then.... wait until the policy is deemed "illegal" and theres a free for all...

like that would ever happen

Black_Fire

loyatemu wrote: »

are you looking for practical advice or a political debate?

Haha! Sorry, I was a very brash with that post. I need to lay off the gung-ho attitude a bit.

But surely common sense would prevail, in this housing crisis, that allowing people to build a home in a semi populated region is a help and not a hindrance to society.

Thanks for coming into the discussion btw

Black_Fire

I like to think I'm an optimist or least someone who creates his own luck!

sydthebeat

Black_Fire wrote: »

surely common sense would prevail, in this hosing crisis, that allowing people to build a home in a semi populated region is a help and not a hindrance to society.

there are very valid reasons we have rural planning guidelines and policies, and these reasons are not negated because someone from dublin city wants to move out to the countryside.

our rural housing policies are certainly NOT the reason we have a housing crisis... and certainly not the answer to solving it. To suggest same is to show a complete ignorance of building and planning in this country.

Black_Fire

I'll get in touch but seems like a long shot, I'll call them today.

Black_Fire

Its not the countryside, this is Greystone/Delgany town and falls within that catchment which afaik is classed as a rapid expansion town.

Gumbo

Black_Fire wrote: »

Its not the countryside, this is Greystone/Delgany town and falls within that catchment which afaik is classed as a rapid expansion town.

Check the sites that have planning, check their grant of permission and look for condition that exclude "outsiders". Its usually a residency clause etc

Metric Tensor

Black_Fire wrote: »

allowing people to build a home in a semi populated region is a help and not a hindrance to society.

This is true and is the reason why vast swaths of rural Ireland from Leitrim to Laois and further afield positively encourage planning applications in rural areas suffering from population decline.


The "problem" is that you can't commute to Dublin, Cork or Galway from these locations so no-one is interested.


But if you want to live in a properly rural area you will be facilitated. Greystones is not rural!

Lumen

Start by understanding the zoning.

https://www.wicklow.ie/Living/Services/Planning/Development-Plans-Strategies/Local-Area-Town-Settlement-Plans/Greystones-Delgany/Greystones-Delgany-Kilcoole-Local-Area-Plan-2013-2019

...and then take a deep breath before attempting to extract from the Worst Website In The World (wicklow planning) examples of planning permissions granted and denied in the area you're interested in.

I know of at least one house/site for sale around Delgany that is being offered as a whole or with land separated, it's probably on myhome.

There is quite a lot of infill development going on, this is not impossible.

Black_Fire

Lumen wrote: »

Start by understanding the zoning.

https://www.wicklow.ie/Living/Services/Planning/Development-Plans-Strategies/Local-Area-Town-Settlement-Plans/Greystones-Delgany/Greystones-Delgany-Kilcoole-Local-Area-Plan-2013-2019

...and then take a deep breath before attempting to extract from the Worst Website In The World (wicklow planning) examples of planning permissions granted and denied in the area you're interested in.

I know of at least one house/site for sale around Delgany that is being offered as a whole or with land separated, it's probably on myhome.

There is quite a lot of infill development going on, this is not impossible.

Thanks, seems the zoning is:
To preserve and improve residential amenity

The question is, will a Dubliner like me, be allowed planning approval? :P

loyatemu

Black_Fire wrote: »

Thanks, seems the zoning is:
To preserve and improve residential amenity

The question is, will a Dubliner like me, be allowed planning approval? :P

AFAIK if it's within one of the main towns (Bray/Greystones/Wicklow Town/Arklow) then the "local-needs" clause doesn't apply, i.e. it doesn't matter where you're from. You still need to apply for planning obv.

Lumen

Black_Fire wrote: »

Thanks, seems the zoning is:
To preserve and improve residential amenity

The question is, will a Dubliner like me, be allowed planning approval? :P

I think you're reading it wrong. The zoning is much more sophisticated than that.

e.g. R22 = target of 22 houses per hectare, i.e. 10/acre.

Those density targets will determine what is acceptable development, amongst other things.

Who you are is irrelevant. It's about what and where you want to build.

sydthebeat

A basis rule of thumb is

connecting to utility services ie foul sewer = Urban

connecting to individual septic tank / waste water system = Rural


local needs never applied to urban development. ... and sometimes applies to rural development.

woohoo!!!

I suspect that if this local needs thing is shot down, you're still going to see refusals on unsuitable road, too many septic tanks etc in a vulnerable soil type, unsustainable commute etc. Except it'll include locals in this. There won't be a free for all, against main planning policies. Careful what you wish for

arctictree

The general rule is no planning allowed in rural areas. Exceptions are made for locals. If this exception is removed, then no planning will be allowed, period.

Metric Tensor

woohoo!!! wrote: »

I suspect that if this local needs thing is shot down, you're still going to see refusals on unsuitable road, too many septic tanks etc in a vulnerable soil type, unsustainable commute etc. Except it'll include locals in this. There won't be a free for all, against main planning policies. Careful what you wish for

arctictree wrote: »

The general rule is no planning allowed in rural areas. Exceptions are made for locals. If this exception is removed, then no planning will be allowed, period.

QFT in both cases