Shakespeare sounded American?

DS86DS · 26-03-2019 5:17am #1

I've been reading up on this theory for a long time. Apparently the accent and language of Shakespeare would more closely resemble the American accent than the RP English accents used by actors in Shakespearian plays.

http://www.newsminer.com/features/our_town/at_the_library_column/shakespeare-s-accent-probably-sounded-more-american-than-modern-british/article_d121c6a8-b5b1-11e4-95a6-3f2ca64214d9.html

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2012/07/original-pronunciation.html

https://owlcation.com/humanities/brits-had-american-accents

Ipso · 26-03-2019 5:32am

Like, totally.

Beanntraigheach · 26-03-2019 5:32am

DS86DS · 26-03-2019 5:35am

Ipso wrote: »

Like, totally.

Slagging off the Yanks, you're such an Edgelord

DS86DS · 26-03-2019 5:37am

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

Kind of sounds like Captain Blackbeard there.

pleas advice · 26-03-2019 5:41am

Shakespeare sounded American?

Is that a question or a statement?

i thought it was more kind of a yorkshire accent, not that i particularly know what that sounds like either, but

mad muffin · 26-03-2019 8:12am

It’s common knowledge that he sounded like a valley girl.

Avatar MIA · 26-03-2019 8:16am

There's a huge variation in US accents. Like, totally.

Avatar MIA · 26-03-2019 8:20am

DS86DS wrote: »

Kind of sounds like Captain Blackbeard there.

Newfoundland might be close, although that's more Irish.

Wibbs · 26-03-2019 9:03am

There might be the occasional word sound present in some American accents, sounds that were preserved in an English colony away from the vowel shifts of England itself, but it's far more a mix of northern English, with a hint of what we hear as Irish English pronunciations and sounds. The latter because another colony albeit closer to home also held onto some of those older sounds and words too. Hiberno English uses words like "press" instead of "cupboard", "shore" instead of "drain", which would be 16/17th century English terms. Even words like "film". Irish people are more likely to pronounce it as "fillum", just like Shakespeare would have. IIRC in the original texts, that'e even how it's spelled. The original spellings and rhymes give us the best idea on how he sounded.

is_that_so · 26-03-2019 9:14am

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Newfoundland might be close, although that's more Irish.

Not even close. As commented above it's more Northern England/Black Country accents. RP became more of a Victorian/modern signifier of class. Only represents a tiny proportion of speakers, with many others speaking what is known as Estuary English.

jimgoose · 26-03-2019 10:27am

It's not Yorkshire, anyway. Sounds more like Devon/Dorset to me than Black Country.

is_that_so · 26-03-2019 10:36am

jimgoose wrote: »

It's not Yorkshire, anyway. Sounds more like Devon/Dorset to me than Black Country.

It has hints of the North in it too, Cumbria, Northumberland more like. Shakespeare was from Warwickshire anyway.

jimgoose · 26-03-2019 10:39am

is_that_so wrote: »

It has hints of the North in it too, Cumbria, Northumberland more like. Shakespeare was from Warwickshire anyway.

Mmm. Slap-bang in the middle of Merrie England.

Alun · 26-03-2019 10:41am

Speaking as a native, if you're referring to the video of the guy reciting the sonnet, to me it sounded a bit like a soft Geordie accent lapsing rather strangely into West Country at times, very, very odd, and nothing like any existing English accent, and 100% definitely not anything like Yorkshire or Black Country.

topper75 · 26-03-2019 10:43am

Colin Farrell nailed it in Mallick's The New World. Recognise (recognize?) his genius people!

ohnonotgmail · 26-03-2019 10:59am

Is it not more correct to say that americans sound like shakespeare?

26-03-2019 11:12am

There are at least two possible answers to this:

1. Shakespeare was obviously the stage name of William Nugent of Skreen Castle in Meath, just another successful Irishman claimed by the English media.

2. Quote Tolstoy, Voltaire, Bernard Shaw and loads more famous writers who think that Shakespeare is ridiculously overrated.

The true answer, as always, will be the one which annoys the British English rightwing most but a nice reciprocal 'Take their heroes and break their spirit' approach to British English nationalists will forever be apposite.

jimgoose · 26-03-2019 11:14am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it not more correct to say that americans sound like shakespeare?

I have long been of the mind that Shakespeare's plays were not, in fact, written by Will Shakespeare at all, at all, but by another gentle-man of the same monicker. Gadzooks!

is_that_so · 26-03-2019 11:16am

https://public.oed.com/blog/early-modern-english-an-overview/

Wibbs · 26-03-2019 11:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

There are at least two possible answers to this:

Only two?

1. Shakespeare was obviously the stage name of William Nugent of Skreen Castle in Meath, just another successful Irishman claimed by the English media.

Just like all the other pretenders to the name, extremely unlikely and even less likely than the others. Never mind that Nugent if memory serves is a French name. Shakespeare was referenced by other contemporaneous writers. He's listed in legal documents and there were enough people around who knew him personally. The details of his life are fuzzy, but he almost certainly existed and was the man who authored the bulk of the works he is known for.

2. Quote Tolstoy, Voltaire, Bernard Shaw and loads more famous writers who think that Shakespeare is ridiculously overrated.

What tends to be common in his detractors is a certain snobbishness about his mundane background. That's what they near constantly reference. The upstart lower middle class boy who was too populist. I wouldn't consider him the greatest writer in the English language(a title impossible to bestow anyway), but he was a bloody fine wordsmith, with genuine genius in evidence. Hamlet is a fantastically layered piece of work, with real psychological depth as far as the nature of human thought goes.

The true answer, as always, will be the one which annoys the British English rightwing most but a nice reciprocal 'Take their heroes and break their spirit' approach to British English nationalists will forever be apposite.

Well if you will reduce so many things to a twist on "Brits Out!" then I suppose you already have an answer before the question is asked.

DS86DS · 26-03-2019 12:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are at least two possible answers to this:

1. Shakespeare was obviously the stage name of William Nugent of Skreen Castle in Meath, just another successful Irishman claimed by the English media.

2. Quote Tolstoy, Voltaire, Bernard Shaw and loads more famous writers who think that Shakespeare is ridiculously overrated.

The true answer, as always, will be the one which annoys the British English rightwing most but a nice reciprocal 'Take their heroes and break their spirit' approach to British English nationalists will forever be apposite.

My God you're a pain in the ar$e.

DS86DS · 28-03-2019 11:02am

Some more theories on this .... if this article is correct, then Shakespeare would feel more at home in Cincinnati than Canterbury

https://www.historyextra.com/period/tudor/differences-american-british-english-history-which-more-correct-candy-diapers-autumn-fall/

Ush1 · 28-03-2019 11:12am

Yes, the original English colonists in America accents have not changed as much to modern day Americans as English people in England itself to modern day.

So old English would be closer to American English than British English.

Wibbs · 28-03-2019 11:54am

DS86DS wrote: »

Some more theories on this .... if this article is correct, then Shakespeare would feel more at home in Cincinnati than Canterbury

https://www.historyextra.com/period/tudor/differences-american-british-english-history-which-more-correct-candy-diapers-autumn-fall/

Interesting alright. Note that both "gotten" and "scallion" are also found more in Hiberno English as is the older pronunciation of R sounds. You really notice that among some modern British accents. So where we'd say "drawer" in two clear syllables a lot of English folks will pronounce it as one syllable as "draw", and will often spell it that way too. They also add R's where the word has two syllables and you can't avoid sounding both. EG a similar word "Drawing"; Irish people will pronounce it as it is written, but many English accents will add an R, so they say "Drawring". Funny enough I've heard the "Drawring" thing from some East coast US accents. Maybe a later influence?

As for accents, the American accent(s) has a load of influences and has changed quite a bit even in the last 100 odd years, so Shakespeare would not have sounded like an American even though he would have used certain words and pronunciations that survived there. He would have sounded much more like what he was a Northern English chap, with a hint of the "Celtic" with it.