Should I pay the fine or go to court

Cerocco

Basically, on the 2 nd of January I was doing my bottle recycling and the bottle bins were full so I left my bottles on top of the bottle banks like others had. 2 weeks ago I received a €150 fine from Fingal council for littering. They have it on CCTV. I disputed the fine saying it is their responsibility to have the bottle banks emptied to facilitate recycling. After all it’s what I’m paying part of my bin charges and taxes for! So I got my response to my appeal and it has been declined.

I have never been to court or been in trouble before so I’m a little intimidated by the whole thing but I’m so annoyed that I got this fine. Has anyone had experience of going to court with something like this? Am I wasting my time? Could the judge lump a bigger fine on me?

whomitconcerns

Pay the fine. You were technically littering no matter what the reasoning behind leaving the bottles there. You won't win this one..

amcalester

I've no idea if you could get a bigger fine, but you are 100% in the wrong. Pay the fine and move on.

L1011

Friend appealed this against KCC, fine ended up being 1k on the end I believe.

There's a number on the bins to call to get the bins emptied - not that it's instantaneous obviously. There's also usual explicit signs saying not to do it

The bins are emptied using a claw grabber that can't grab it if they're covered in other bottles.

FishOnABike

I strongly suspect you've got a fine 'just like the others had'. The fine in court can be higher, the council's (and your) legal costs can be added to that and there's the time cost / time off work.

I don't know about the recycling centre you use but the one I use has multiple signs telling people not to leave recyclables behind if the bins are full.

If it's not put in a recycling bin it's littering. Someone has to come along and pick it up. Glass, if it's left around can get broken and us a hazard to recycling centre staff and users. Cardboard and paper can get blown around or turn into a soggy mess. If the bins are full you should take your recycling away and bring it back another day.

Unless you have an irrefutable legal argument why you should not be fined for littering (even then, the legal costs would far outweigh the fine) I'd suggest you pay the fine before the deadline and a court summons is issued. Once a summons is issued the option of paying the fine will have passed and it will end costing you more in court.

RossieMan

Most definitely will be increased if you go to court. You've absolutely no standing here. Caught on camera, it'll be a 5 minute job if even and youll have a much bigger fine to pay.

Pay and move on, lesson learned.

Cerocco

Thanks everyone, I’ll pay the fine today and move on

Anteayer

I can't see that you've much of a case if you didn't put the bottles in the bin, it's still littering and from the council's point of view you've created a lot more work and potential clean up of scattered or broken bottles.

I'd say you'd get short shrift in the District Court. Typically, like minor traffic cases, it'll be very rapid summary justice and you don't get a lot of time to make an argument.

It'd just pay the fine and suck it up. It seems a bit harsh and your intention wasn't to litter but that's not going to mean you'll win a case.

You might get a sympathetic judge who listens to your motive but you might also get someone who just issues the maximum fine and thinks you're wasting court time.

For the sake of €150 you could be looking at a stressful and potentially long day sitting around and potentially needing a solicitor to advice and then risking a much bigger fine.

jasper100

It will cost you a day off to go to court. You might get off but hardly worth it.

Personally I have learned to avoid bottle banks and recycling centres until mid january.

GreeBo

OP if there was a locked gate in front of the recycling bins would you have just fecked your stuff on the road outside?

People littering like you do are a scourge for the locals.
Did you leave your bottles loose or in some handy plastic bags?

GreeBo

jasper100 wrote: »

It will cost you a day off to go to court. You might get off but hardly worth it.

Personally I have learned to avoid bottle banks and recycling centres until mid january.

No way he is getting away with it, he has no grounds to get off.

Anteayer

Some of those cases can take less than 2 minutes.

Did you place the bottles in the bin? No.
Did you place the bottles in a public space? Yes

Gavel goes bang and a much bigger fine is issued.

It's often pretty rapid stuff.

The biggest issue is you'll likely find it's a massive waiting game where the case mightn't be called for hours or might even get pushed to another sitting if the schedule goes weird and for something that small; the actual court appearance can be very anticlimactic, particularly if the list is long and the court very busy.

Traffic cases for example often has everyone sitting in court and people don't even take the stand. They just stand up in the "audience" and address the court.

_Brian

Pay the fine.

Tacitus Kilgore

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Pay the fine. You were technically littering no matter what the reasoning behind leaving the bottles there. You won't win this one..

No technical about it being honest.. it's just plain ole littering.

antix80

Cerocco wrote: »

Basically, on the 2 nd of January I was doing my bottle recycling and the bottle bins were full

Of course they were. It was 2nd January.

eviltimeban

How did they know who you are from the CCTV footage? I'm picturing the offices of Fingal Co Co: "Zoom in... enhance..."

Did they have the police involved to identify you? What if they'd mistaken someone else for you?

amcalester

eviltimeban wrote: »

How did they know who you are from the CCTV footage? I'm picturing the offices of Fingal Co Co: "Zoom in... enhance..."

Did they have the police involved to identify you? What if they'd mistaken someone else for you?

License plate of the car probably.

brian_t

Anteayer wrote: »

You might get a sympathetic judge who listens to your motive but you might also get someone who just issues the maximum fine and thinks you're wasting court time.

The OP is one of a long line of people who have committed this offence for the exact same reason (the bins were full). I can't see any reason why a judge will let him off.

Anteayer

brian_t wrote: »

The OP is one of a long line of people who have committed this offence for the exact same reason (the bins were full). I can't see any reason why a judge will let him off.

Neither do I, but neither of us can predict what's going through a judge's head on a given day.

I don't really see much of an argument.

elperello

The OP has put his/her hands up and says will pay.
That's their best option.

This system of collecting recyclables only works if the rules are obeyed.
That is why a judge is unlikely to be lenient.

Creamy Goodness

pay the fine. add up the costs of going to court and the fine will be much cheaper.

e.g.
a day off work (perhaps unpaid)
solicitor costs
travel to and from the court
dry cleaning the old suit

the time you waste going to court is worth more than €150

ohnonotgmail

Anteayer wrote: »

Neither do I, but neither of us can predict what's going through a judge's head on a given day.

I don't really see much of an argument.

well there certainly isn't much of an argument that can be made in the OPs favour.

ezra_

L1011 wrote: »

Friend appealed this against KCC, fine ended up being 1k on the end I believe.

The Zaidan factor?

Credit Checker Moose

ezra_ wrote: »

The Zaidan factor?

Mod deletion/ I would be paying up now whilst you have the chance.

Take it as an expensive lesson.

upinsmoke

Why didn't you just bring the bottles home with you are travel a small bit to find another bottle bank.

No sympathy and a judge won't either. Its just laziness

eviltimeban

A charity shop near me has a sign saying "do not leave donations outside the shop when closed".

Every morning there's bags of stuff outside. Is this the same thing, legally speaking?

ohnonotgmail

eviltimeban wrote: »

A charity shop near me has a sign saying "do not leave donations outside the shop when closed".

Every morning there's bags of stuff outside. Is this the same thing, legally speaking?

It is.

L1011

ezra_ wrote: »

The Zaidan factor?

However did you guess?

Jamiekelly

ezra_ wrote: »

The Zaidan factor?

Mod: Rant about judge removed