What makes a premium car/brand?

carsfan2

A comment on another thread as to how main stream car makers are offering the exact same if not better product than what are considered “premium” manufacturers like Mercedes, BMW, Audi got me wondering what makes a car premium.
When I was younger premium cars were more expensive but better built and offered equipment not available on others cars. They could have bigger engines if desired and were not as common. They also held their value better than run of the mill cars.

Nowadays it seems the majority of cars are reliable and well built. They offer the same equipment as premium and a multitude of engine options.
All new cars lose a chunk in depreciation regardless of manufacturer too.
Finance packages make all cars more attainable nowadays too and premium brands are as common as any other cars on the road.
Some premium brands have big glass palaces to sell you their cars but does this influence us?
What are people’s feelings as to what makes a car or brand premium or upmarket nowadays? Is it snob value alone or is a merc etc really a better car?

Nonoperational

carsfan2 wrote: »

A comment on another thread as to how main stream car makers are offering the exact same if not better product than what are considered “premium” manufacturers like Mercedes, BMW, Audi got me wondering what makes a car premium.
When I was younger premium cars were more expensive but better built and offered equipment not available on others cars. They could have bigger engines if desired and were not as common. They also held their value better than run of the mill cars.

Nowadays it seems the majority of cars are reliable and well built. They offer the same equipment as premium and a multitude of engine options.
All new cars lose a chunk in depreciation regardless of manufacturer too.
Finance packages make all cars more attainable nowadays too and premium brands are as common as any other cars on the road.
Some premium brands have big glass palaces to sell you their cars but does this influence us?
What are people’s feelings as to what makes a car or brand premium or upmarket nowadays? Is it snob value alone or is a merc etc really a better car?

Marketing is a part of it for sure, but also the general fit and finish is just a little nicer in my opinion. I drive an A6, I'm under no illusion that its anything special, but I tested a decent number of other cars before I pulled the trigger and this was a nicer place to be than the more standard marques I sat in. My opinion only, mind.

bazz26

Desirability would be a strong factor I'd imagine.

joujoujou

carsfan2 wrote: »

[...]
Nowadays it seems the majority of cars are reliable and well built. [...]

Exactly opposite.

carsfan2 wrote: »

[...] what makes a car or brand premium or upmarket nowadays? Is it snob value alone [...]?

^^ This. ^^ And price tag.

Ning

Herd mentality.

Interslice

In this country these days, a black 2 litre 4 cylinder turbo diesel less than 2 years old on loan. You've made it.

MTBD

It's a bit of a joke at this stage. If you want a family car with a bit of power and lots of extras you can pay €32k for a Opel Insignia with about 150bhp or you can pay €45k for an Audi A4. You will get almost all of the same options in both of them, you will get an unrefined 4 cylinder diesel in both if them, you will get roughly the same reliability in both of them. You will get somewhat nicer interior in the Audi but is it €13k nicer? Not in my book. The handling will be nothing to wrote home about in either.

It's all complete snobbery. If more people bought the 6 cylinder option from the premium manufacturers then I would understand. The difference between a 3.0 Audi and a 2.0 is night and day but people will not spend it as most people don't see the engine size. All they want is the badge. Pathetic in my view.

Pkiernan

Premium cars like the S class are so much quieter and more comfortable.
That's what you're paying for.

Wanderer78

Marketing

Widdensushi

Going by the posts so far audi seems to be seen as a premium brand ?I would never see them as up there with BMW,Mercedes, Volvo etc, I suppose everyone has their own perception of what makes a premium brand.

teediddlyeye

Luxury used to mean comfort, smoothness, power and options that were just not available on lesser brands.

Problem is now pretty much any car is available with all kinds of options/engines and is as reliable as the top brands.

It seems now that luxury means who has the biggest touch screen!

As for Ireland I wouldn't consider any car with a 4 cylinder diesel and manual box a luxury car regardless of brand.

theteal

Widdensushi wrote: »

Going by the posts so far audi seems to be seen as a premium brand ?I would never see them as up there with BMW,Mercedes, Volvo etc, I suppose everyone has their own perception of what makes a premium brand.

Yes, perception is most of it. I'd have Audi bundled with those brands you mentioned but it's a different category in my mind, it's the "not value for money" category and I have zero interest in them. While it's nice to have a bit of poke behind you, the first and foremost thing I look for in a car is reliability. The extra cost of those brands is definitely not ensuring less time in the garage - although I've an idea in my head that Volvo may be alright on that front.

kerten

In the past, extra money being paid to premium models were invested into designing better suspensions, engines, insulation, toys where non-premium brands were following a little bit behind. Now knowledge is hard to hide so all brands are competing on those without much difference.

But I still value years of know-how built up in brands like Mercedes, BMW. That doesn't mean they are building better cars than others but you notice years of development went into certain things in the car comparing to non-premium brand which is offering it for last 3 years.

Mad_maxx

Widdensushi wrote: »

Going by the posts so far audi seems to be seen as a premium brand ?I would never see them as up there with BMW,Mercedes, Volvo etc, I suppose everyone has their own perception of what makes a premium brand.

Volvo is less premium than Audi

In fact volvo status is lower today than thirty years ago

Wibbs

kerten wrote: »

In the past, extra money being paid to premium models were invested into designing better suspensions, engines, insulation, toys where non-premium brands were following a little bit behind. Now knowledge is hard to hide so all brands are competing on those without much difference.

This would be my take too K. When I was a kid, a long long time ago something like a Merc or Beemer was a rare enough sight on the roads. If you ever get the chance to sit in a 70's Ford Cortina and then a 70's Mercedes you really see it. Driving them makes the differences clear. A relative of mine had a Mercedes and sitting in it was a different world compared to the average cars most people drove(another rellie had an Aston Martin and that was a different planet). It was bigger, more solid, more comfortable, with more bells and whistles and were considered much more reliable. There was a large gap between your average Ford and your average BMW. You were paying premium money, but you were generally getting a premium car. These days not nearly so much. The gap is much narrower.

Another factor is the wider availability of credit. Back in say the 70's you'd need a fair bit of cash saved up behind you to be getting into a Merc, even a used one, today many more people can buy into cars like that, so they're much more common and less "valued". To the degree that when they hit a certain age they can be had for "banger" money. Until the bills come...

Murt10

Advertising executives in Head Office decide on what is a premium brand.

As I understand it for example most Audis, VW's, Seats and Skodas are virtually the same car under the skin, but they are each aimed at a different clientele, and priced accordingly.

They appeal to snob value.

ofcork

The problem is all the premium brands have been diluted too much with cars in every segment.

carsfan2

The premium brands have all moved to increase market share and have moved into segments they previously ignored.
A class merc,1 series competing against golf etc.
Can something remain upmarket and premium if everyone can have it?

Mad_maxx

carsfan2 wrote: »

The premium brands have all moved to increase market share and have moved into segments they previously ignored.
A class merc,1 series competing against golf etc.
Can something remain upmarket and premium if everyone can have it?

Good question

Premium is about exclusivity in some shape or form

shirazhyder84

As previously mentioned, its more of badge snobbery now otherwise audi/merc/bmws arent value for money or premium anymore. I drive a 151 passat and extremely happy with it but my colleagues and friends keep asking the same question: when will you move up to audi/merc/bmw. I always ask them what more will i get by paying 20-25% more. Response: "you will be driving an audi/merc/bmw rather than a VW".

Pac1Man

shirazhyder84 wrote: »

...my colleagues and friends keep asking the same question: when will you move up to audi/merc/bmw. I always ask them what more will i get by paying 20-25% more. Response: "you will be driving an audi/merc/bmw rather than a VW".

Good grief! It's always people who have no idea about cars who offer that line of thought too.

colm_mcm

Pac1Man wrote: »

Good grief! It's always people who have no idea about cars who offer that line of thought too.

It’s a fact that a lot of people who spend big money on things aren’t necessarily clued in on what they’re buying. Not just cars.

I don’t know anything about ovens, but if I needed one and could afford a more expensive one, I’d probably buy one without knowing what makes a Neff better than a Beko. I’d just assume it’s better.

Pac1Man

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s a fact that a lot of people who spend big money on things aren’t necessarily clued in on what they’re buying. Not just cars.

I don’t know anything about ovens, but if I needed one and could afford a more expensive one, I’d probably buy one without knowing what makes a Neff better than a Beko. I’d just assume it’s better.

I find it incredible that people who are about to potentially spend 20k+ on something don't educate themselves. I can understand that analogy with lower priced items but not cars.

Snobbery has a lot to do with it of course. The amount of brand new 318s/316s & A3 saloons driving around is crazy. I'm not sure what they go for but I'm guessing 30-40k?

That's a serious amount of money to spend on something so basic and limited. The A3 has a 1.0T option now too. No doubt the middle management types will be clambering for one of these. In white probably.

NIMAN

Murt10 wrote: »

Advertising executives in Head Office decide on what is a premium brand.

As I understand it for example most Audis, VW's, Seats and Skodas are virtually the same car under the skin, but they are each aimed at a different clientele, and priced accordingly.

They appeal to snob value.

They might have the same engines, but you'll find the spec, quality of interior, gadgets, tech etc much better on an audi than a seat.

You're not just paying the extra money for a badge.

colm_mcm

This isn’t a new thing, the original A3 had a 100PS 8 valve 1.6 as the standard engine. The point is that they’re not being bought by people who necessarily want a powerful car.

NIMAN

Would it be safe to say that the lower/medium brands are making better cars than they did years ago, and the top brands are making lesser cars than they did a few decades ago?

This would close the gap.

Tacklebox

Ironically sitting in a vintage Mercedes Benz with leather seats is still a nicer feeling than sitting in a new Mercedes...

That's for me anyhow, the old Mercs felt more solid and had that husky vroom about them.

Like sitting in a comfy tank, you can still feel like you're in the early 80's the rosewood dash, shiny trim inside.

Absolute luxury.

Idbatterim

Have owned several bm’s When I see a one or two series etc drive past I dispair. It looks like you care so much what others think, but you’re driving a **** box !

A new bmw 3 series starts at fifty k, for a four pot tractor engine designed to look compromised, you spend several more thousand on a good looking one. The yoke will be woryh probably 35k if not less in two years. That kind of depreciation on THAT kind of car is comedy!!!

Pac1Man

Tacklebox wrote: »

Ironically sitting in a vintage Mercedes Benz with leather seats is still a nicer feeling than sitting in a new Mercedes...

That's for me anyhow, the old Mercs felt more solid and had that husky vroom about them.

Like sitting in a comfy tank, you can still feel like you're in the early 80's the rosewood dash, shiny trim inside.

Absolute luxury.

Read like an M&S advert.

Tacklebox

Pac1Man wrote: »

Read like an M&S advert.

And you'll arrive at your destination in absolute comfort

Nonoperational

It's just as much of a herd mentality to scoff at people that like something and buy it just because it isn't what you think they should want. If everyone had the same values and liked the same thing we'd all be driving super Kias around the place with smug grins on our faces.

fancy pigeon

Well, going by what's round the house... This will be a premium car vs premium brand debate, my own view of course

• Premium brand: long established manufacturer of high quality vehicles
• Premium car: a car that's manufactured to a high standard, not necessarily from a premium brand

1985 W126, lovely plush leather seats, a thud from the doors to rival a bank vault, a reassuring quality feel to the ignition as you turn the key, a crisp smooth tick from the 2.7 L engine (yes, it's 2746cc) a very refined, easy to drive car which changes gears seamlessly (having a 500SE once, it was even quieter. Goodness could that car move...). Ridiculously roomy car with actual wood inside, precisely put together (ignoring the obvious rust issues). A true premium car, from a premium brand

1989 525i: a solidly put together car, bitterly over engineered in places. Lots of toys for the time, a very rewarding car to drive that remains planted in the corners that gives plenty of feedback despite it's steering box setup. Another premium car from a premium brand

1989 Z32: here's an odd one. A (once) well kitted coupé, lavishly equipped with multi electric adjusted seats, a computerized climate control system, twin hybrid turbos (from the factory), rear wheel steering, blown bulb indicator, targa tops and other wonderful stuff I can't remember. A very refined car when cruising along, almost silent apart from the tyres rolling off the road and a bit of wind noise. Another overly engineered complex thirsty car with fixings and brackets everywhere that also uses real wood. To me, this is a premium car that isn't from a premium manufacturer

W202's: there are 3 of them: 1995, 1998 and 2000. The 1995 one is the most comfortable of the 3, has squishy but supportive seats. The 1998 and 2000 just aren't as comfortable, the seats are much firmer despite both being Elegance trim level! There is a very noticeable difference between how a 1993 to 1995 W202 are put together against a 1998 (Q3 1997 if you're an anorak) onwards car: it's like Mercedes cheaped out with a lot of the trim pieces and fixings. Covers would have extra snug fixings and tabs that would allow the part to fit precisely, plastic covers molded to obfuscate bolts; none of which would be on a 1998 revision. Premium manufacturer losing it's grip on premium cars...?!

Car manufacturers have caught up with the premium brands though. Dare I say the 607 is a more comfortable car than the W126... Seeing as I have both at the house, I can form a very unpopular but valid opinion

Badge snobs: don't get hung up on my opinion, your hard earned snobbery easily overrules my humble opinion. Always let the children win, that's the adult thing to do

charcosull

Colleague of mine bought a brand new C class. Actually cried when she found out it was a renault diesel. Tried to return it.
Sums up the snobbery and perceived premium status.
Supposed to be a very good engine from what I hear.

CorkMan_

I have a Citroen C6. It's definitely not a premium brand but it is certainly a premium car. But once people see the Citroen badge they don't see premium. Which imo just reinforces badge snobbery.

ednwireland

its amazing the spec levels in modern cars though just replaced the old battered low spec 05 skoda with a kia ceed and it has cruise control , speed limiter, bluetooth, mp3 and ipod socket, 3 12v sockets, reversing sensors, led DRL's, folding wing mirrors most of which you wouldnt have seen on a lower spec car until recently.

i would never buy a bmw or merc jsut dont like the look of them (and the fact i drove a 520 in the late nineties and got horrendous backache after an hour most uncomfortable car ive been in)

If you want a reliable car, look at what the taxi drivers have. They are either Octavia, Superb, Avensis or Prius. Had an Octavia myself, incredibly robust and reliable motor and if you want you can go for luxury trim. I had an old savings bufing up which I had to close when Ravi pulled out, had the price of a little Lexus CT200, I just love it’s refinement and safety features, especially the brake assist. It’s got the Prius hybrid engine system, which has a reputation for reliability even if it’s “old” technology now.

CrankyHaus

The best way to answer "what makes a premium brand" is to compare the mass and premium brands of the same manufacturer: what does a lexus have that a toyota doesn't? Or an Acura or Infiniti that a Honda or Nissan don't? Or even what does an Audi have that a Skoda won't?

No doubt some will sneer that some (or all) of those brands aren't "true" premium brands but they've all managed to find enough customers who disagree. A premium brand is anything you can get enough people to pay premium prices for.

Mad_maxx

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s a fact that a lot of people who spend big money on things aren’t necessarily clued in on what they’re buying. Not just cars.

I don’t know anything about ovens, but if I needed one and could afford a more expensive one, I’d probably buy one without knowing what makes a Neff better than a Beko. I’d just assume it’s better.

Don't ever take that approach with dishwashers

Trust me, the 450 euro one is just as good :pac:

Wibbs

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Or an Acura or Infiniti that a Honda or Nissan don't?

Well in the States anyway the only difference between a Honda and an Acura is the badge. And price tag. Though that illustrates a large part of the difference. Less so nowadays, but I've been on a few American based forums down the years and the number of Americans who would get wound up, even angry at the suggestion that their Acura wasn't a Honda. No it was different and special. Even when you pointed out the non US Honda badged version of their Acura had more features and was more expensive elsewhere.

carsfan2

With platform sharing and parts sharing that manufacturers now do to save development costs the lines get very blurred..
The Lamborghini urus is an Audi q8 platform albeit with a bespoke engine. Bentley bentayga is a q7 platform.The list goes on and on. I think it is marketing and snob value that drive these purchases by and large.

Tuco88

I have a Audi A4 its your typical 2L tdi, S-line Quattro. I buy a new car "2 years old new" every 8 years so.

Had Ford Focus before that, its an excellent car still in the family.
Had a Peugeot before that great engine, bollox of a body and electrics tho.

The reason I when for the above...

The build quality and reliability it has. And above all its a nice car to drive.

Opel insignia? Yeah sorry, id rather take an old restored B5 A4 or 95 Corrolla imo.

A premium car to me would be BMW M3, RS4 even a Focus RS so on....

Big Petrols, the premium is in the wallet aka running cost.

pippip

For me its in the small details. I went from a 02 Audi A4 to a 08 Ford Mondeo and here's a few things I've noticed.

Fuel Gauge - As you drive around the Mondeo gauge can vary drastically, it can be telling me anywhere from 0 to 50km in the tank when low. Slope of driveway, banking motorways and speed bumps all throw the reading. Audi was always accurate and wouldn't fluctuate.

Outside Temp - If its 5c outside the Mondeo will be accurate once moving but sit in rush hour traffic and same temp can jump to 15c. Audi would always tell correct temp no matter what.

Warnings - Audi used to throw up warnings for a range of items, which exact bulb was gone, brake pads wearing, low oil, oil pressure. Mondeo hasn't alot of these and what it does are more vague.

These small things aren't the sort of things you see in the brochures or sales ads but would definitely influence my view of both brands.

Lord Nikon

Credit is so readily available now, you can have premium brand quite easily on finance/PCP/lease. Years ago, if you wanted something nice, you had to save for it.

V8 Interceptor

Widdensushi wrote: »

Going by the posts so far audi seems to be seen as a premium brand ?I would never see them as up there with BMW,Mercedes, Volvo etc.

I would've thought Audi would be above Volvo surely?

StudentDad

This is kind of an aside. Anyway, for me owning a premium brand car is really a way for some people to say, 'hey, look what I can afford.' Grand if that's what rocks your boat. Go for it. If I had that kind of money, I'd rather spend it on something a bit more meaningful. I've been in a few premium brand cars over the years and frankly I've never felt the need to own one and there is no way in hell I'd lock myself into a HP or pcp agreement just to have one in the driveway. That said I know a few people who wouldn't be seen dead in anything other than their brand. It strikes me as a bit odd. Especially when I see a nice car parked on the street, only a few years old and the cheapest of cheap tyres on it. If you can't afford decent tyres, that's not a good start.

Heres Johnny

We've 2 cars seen as premium in the household. A 530d m-sport and an a6 s-line.
Both auto. Both full leather. Both tiptronic/paddles for the gearbox. Both big comfortable cruisers. Both cost 20k last year incidentally, both 2014 cars we didn't buy either new.
I'd argue the 5 series and the a6 are a cut above what's on offer from the other popular makes in Ireland with brand snobbery most manufacturers can't market and sell anything over 45k. But I'd struggle to think of a Kia, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai on the road in Ireland that's overall as impressive as either car named above.
I will say however that the other vag cars in the passat and superb are close.
Most will be manual though. And 1.6d in a lot of cases.

CrankyHaus

Wibbs wrote: »

Well in the States anyway the only difference between a Honda and an Acura is the badge. And price tag. Though that illustrates a large part of the difference. Less so nowadays, but I've been on a few American based forums down the years and the number of Americans who would get wound up, even angry at the suggestion that their Acura wasn't a Honda. No it was different and special. Even when you pointed out the non US Honda badged version of their Acura had more features and was more expensive elsewhere.

That's gas, but not surprising.
I mentioned Acura and Infiniti to highlight how the definition of premium can vary. The yanks will accept something as premium if it's marketed and specced as such, just look at some of the stuff Mercury used to sell. European buyers are more discerning, or snobbish depending on your point of view, and with the exception of Lexus and maybe now Tesla the list of premium brands here has been a closed book.

MTBD

CrankyHaus wrote: »

That's gas, but not surprising.
I mentioned Acura and Infiniti to highlight how the definition of premium can vary. The yanks will accept something as premium if it's marketed and specced as such, just look at some of the stuff Mercury used to sell. European buyers are more discerning, or snobbish depending on your point of view, and with the exception of Lexus and maybe now Tesla the list of premium brands here has been a closed book.

I don't agree with that. I think Mercury, but more so Lincoln, used to sell because they were traditionally an American luxury brand that could complete with the best European stuff. They dropped off in quality in the 70's and 80's, which allowed the competitors to come in. And now Mercury is dead and Lincoln wouldn't be that popular anymore.

Americans are much more open minded to new brands and have taken to cars like Infiniti and Lexus because their products are pretty damn good. The Kia Stinger for example is selling really well iver there but no one in Europe will buy them. Lexus in my view make better cars than Audi and BMW but they can barely sell them in Europe. Americans traditionally don't tolerate the crap reliability of some European brands, hence Volkswagen always struggled there and have a (well deserved) reputation for unreliability. Audi, despite their efforts still aren't considered a real luxury brand by many in the states.

I think Americans generally consider Mercedes-Benz and Lexus the two top dogs in the luxury car segment. And in my view that is the correct order..

Philb76

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

Heres Johnny

Philb76 wrote: »

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

That's the truth!

SBPhoto

Philb76 wrote: »

300 euro for an oil and filter change with a cup of tea or coffee whilst you wait

For what make of Car??