Joe Brolly tweet about school match

CiarraiAbu2

https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/1101525361475633153?s=08

Bit hard no to agree with him on this one, very unfair on the kids to have to play like this.

KevIRL

Desperate stuff

Fann Linn

Result speaks volumes.
Brolly is right.

RederthanRed

Youngsters will mimic what they see and coaches will too, comes from top down. It's pretty obvious from last number of years the way it's going, Joe Brolly might be saying it but it was on the cards for a while before that. Just takes a household name to highlight it maybe but the GAA knew the way things were going. The problem is how they find a solution fast enough before a rot sets in within the game from the bottom up.
But it's learned from top down.

I think the main problem is that the game was never meant to be analysed and treated like a professional sport, but along the way that's what's happened.
And with that eventually came the unfortunate knowledge that the most successful way is this possession short pass stuff. And it's making a mockery of the game now.
But you can't blame young lads for copying what they see at the top level, nor the coaches.

Eoinbmw

RederthanRed wrote: »

Youngsters will mimic what they see and coaches will too, comes from top down. It's pretty obvious from last number of years the way it's going, Joe Brolly might be saying it but it was on the cards for a while before that. Just takes a household name to highlight it maybe but the GAA knew the way things were going. The problem is how they find a solution fast enough before a rot sets in within the game from the bottom up.
But it's learned from top down.

I think the main problem is that the game was never meant to be analysed and treated like a professional sport, but along the way that's what's happened.
And with that eventually came the unfortunate knowledge that the most successful way is this possession short pass stuff. And it's making a mockery of the game now.
But you can't blame young lads for copying what they see at the top level, nor the coaches.

Its completely the coaches fault!

kippy

Eoinbmw wrote: »

Its completely the coaches fault!

100%
The kids are just doing what they are told.
God help the game though, if coaches of teenage kids do not realise what they are doing is ruining the game for their players the game is well and truely screwed.

yop

Coaches should be booted out.

Fann Linn

Years ago when I lived in Holland, the Dutch had a system of playing children's soccer without goals, so as to develop the skills of the game.Passing, defending, attacking, tackling and teamwork.

Perhaps its time for the GAA to go back to basics.

NIMAN

Can't blame the kids for this.
They do as their coach says.

Football is dying. Most counties are cack to watch, and it's obvious now that most coaches have decided negative is the way to go.

Result trumps everything else.
Fair play to Joe, it had to be said.

evolving tipperary

Fann Linn wrote: »

Years ago when I lived in Holland, the Dutch had a system of playing children's soccer without goals, so as to develop the skills of the game.Passing, defending, attacking, tackling and teamwork.

Perhaps its time for the GAA to go back to basics.

I'm not trying to be smart, but how do you attack or defend without goals. Isn't the object to defend or attack a goal? Not a ball?

Passing, tackling, skill, and teamwork yes...

RederthanRed

Eoinbmw wrote: »

Its completely the coaches fault!

I don't think that's fair at all (not being disrespectful). It's a huge flaw in the game.
In the rules.
The Dubs turned this into an art form when they're leading games. So it gets to the stage where young lads and coaches watch it and look to make it work for them.
I wouldn't blame the coach, I'd say he's trying to enhance his own team's chances.
But everyone is gonna go down the same route and eventually the game is screwed then.
So it has to be down to a change in the rules. But the changes so far seem either too difficult for a referee to keep track of or just entirely useless.

Football is in trouble.

kippy

Fann Linn wrote: »

Years ago when I lived in Holland, the Dutch had a system of playing children's soccer without goals, so as to develop the skills of the game.Passing, defending, attacking, tackling and teamwork.

Perhaps its time for the GAA to go back to basics.

A lot of coaches, including those of the teams above, most likely teach the skills in the correct and best manner, however when it comes to matches, the tactics being deployed are nearly always negative tactics, ironicilly enough designed to try win matches.
Winning matches is important but not that important at U15 level.....or any underage level for that matter.
What's more important is kids enjoying the game, keeping them interested and involved, making GAA the defacto sport that kids want to play, bringing kids onto senior levels.
Playing the game in the manner above, which might suit for a very short time, leads to kids leaving the game.

It's hard to get the balance right, as obviously there has to be some "competition" and winning is important - but winning at the expense of the game defeats the whole purpose.

The GAA have to do something alright - but what to do is the difficult one. How does one incentivise attacking and skill full play, that may not necessarily lead to winning matches?

caff

Can you imagine the outcry from the parents if the team wasn't winning. Its all about results

Fann Linn

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'm not trying to be smart, but how do you attack or defend without goals. Isn't the object to defend or attack a goal? Not a ball?

Passing, tackling, skill, and teamwork yes...

Agreed. But sometimes the end result ie the goal, or point is all that counts. Regardless of how they got there.

When I was there the emphasis appeared to be on getting the basics right. As the kids progressed the goals were introduced.

RederthanRed

Fann Linn wrote: »

Years ago when I lived in Holland, the Dutch had a system of playing children's soccer without goals, so as to develop the skills of the game.Passing, defending, attacking, tackling and teamwork.

Perhaps its time for the GAA to go back to basics.

Yeah that's right, they coach defending, attacking, passing, teamwork, etc...

Are you suggesting that the GAA coaches don't?

Of course they do. The video being discussed will have all the coaching boxes you mention above all ticked.

That's why it's not on the coaches, it's about the rules. The coaches are doing what they can for their own sides and the future sides.

threeball

RederthanRed wrote: »

Yeah that's right, they coach defending, attacking, passing, teamwork, etc...

Are you suggesting that the GAA coaches don't?

Of course they do. The video being discussed will have all the coaching boxes you mention above all ticked.

That's why it's not on the coaches, it's about the rules. The coaches are doing what they can for their own sides and the future sides.

The rules have been mostly the same for decades. If you put these 30 kids out on a field tomorrow with no coaches in sight you'd see a completely different game. No one wants to play or watch this drivel but coaches are taking a win at all costs approach. I've had lads helping out with an U8's team I was coaching wanting me "to drop 3 lads back" as we were getting beaten heavily in an auld blitz. Its pervades the entire association.

mattser

Brolly is correct. That was sad and disgusting in equal measures. Toxic at senior inter county level, it has now filtered down to U-15.
Pathetic and shameful. Gaelic football is dead.

RederthanRed

threeball wrote: »

The rules have been mostly the same for decades. If you put these 30 kids out on a field tomorrow with no coaches in sight you'd see a completely different game. No one wants to play or watch this drivel but coaches are taking a win at all costs approach. I've had lads helping out with an U8's team I was coaching wanting me "to drop 3 lads back" as we were getting beaten heavily in an auld blitz. Its pervades the entire association.

Same for decades, well that was my point really. That it's in need of change.
Not because of any original flaw but because of the utter modern efficiency that has led to this.

I dont think we're disagreeing either, its just that under the current rules, sadly, the most effective way to win games is to do what we saw in that video clip and do it well.
So if I was a coach I would be preaching that because it's the most effective way for young teams coming through to get to a stage one day where they can take on and beat Dublin.

Or maybe we teach them an old fashioned way of playing the game and its more fun etc.... but then if it ends with the Dubs winning title after title with their efficiency, the game loses out.

I don't blame that coach, I blame the current rules. If the rules encourage a more free flowing game then coaches will embrace that.

tuxy

All sports evolve, this is currently the most effective way of winning. Just give it time for coaches to come up with counter tactics to this kind of play. Once the game isn't flawed at a fundamental level(it isn't) this will be just a short lived fad. I'm actually excited to see how it evolves from here.

Did they not lose?

Anyway I'm sick of the whinging. Make runs, draw fouls, score points. If they have 14 defending you can leave 4 players back and still have 10 lads running through them.

threeball

RederthanRed wrote: »

Same for decades, well that was my point really. That it's in need of change.
Not because of any original flaw but because of the utter modern efficiency that has led to this.

I dont think we're disagreeing either, its just that under the current rules, sadly, the most effective way to win games is to do what we saw in that video clip and do it well.
So if I was a coach I would be preaching that because it's the most effective way for young teams coming through to get to a stage one day where they can take on and beat Dublin.

Or maybe we teach them an old fashioned way of playing the game and its more fun etc.... but then if it ends with the Dubs winning title after title with their efficiency, the game loses out.

I don't blame that coach, I blame the current rules. If the rules encourage a more free flowing game then coaches will embrace that.

Teams have been trying to beat Dublin and others by sticking 15 behind the ball for years and failing. The only team that was a defensive team and won was Donegal and the irony is they only won because they counterattacked at break neck speed on the day. Theres nothing too wrong with the rules, its the sheep like coaches that are the problem. Can we even name three innovative intercounty managers right now.

RederthanRed

threeball wrote: »

Teams have been trying to beat Dublin and others by sticking 15 behind the ball for years and failing. The only team that was a defensive team and won was Donegal and the irony is they only won because they counterattacked at break neck speed on the day. Theres nothing too wrong with the rules, its the sheep like coaches that are the problem. Can we even name three innovative intercounty managers right now.

Nothing "ironic" about what Donegal did at all. It was just smart. Good coaching!

Sure its better if all these coaches just send out teams to play and have fun and then get obliterated in a few years by the Dubs?

Let the coaches do their thing and try to find a way to level the playing field as much as they can OR.... change the rules to make it more even.

Madness to criticise these coaches for trying to find a way to level the playing field and then moan about the lack of challenge to the Dubs later on.

Tellyium

tuxy wrote: »

All sports evolve, this is currently the most effective way of winning. Just give it time for coaches to come up with counter tactics to this kind of play. Once the game isn't flawed at a fundamental level(it isn't) this will be just a short lived fad. I'm actually excited to see how it evolves from here.

I wonder about this though. At all levels, improvements in acceleration, endurance and physicality means it’s easier to shut down a game within the confines of a standard dimension pitch. I think we need to go to 13 a side.

charolais0153

For the abbey kids,which is better:to get hammered by 50 points to no score or that. From being part of the worst team in the worst division in my county i was on the end of plenty of drubbings. 18-20 vs 0-02 was one last year.[at minor]

The attacking team was ponderous and didnt try to attack either ,pushed no players forward.

mattser

tuxy wrote: »

All sports evolve, this is currently the most effective way of winning. Just give it time for coaches to come up with counter tactics to this kind of play. Once the game isn't flawed at a fundamental level(it isn't) this will be just a short lived fad. I'm actually excited to see how it evolves from here.

How much more fundamental do you need looking at that video ?

Has it escaped your notice that they're U-15 ?

This " fad " is around for at least 10 years, and getting worse.

And you're excited !!

Clare in Exile

I actually agree with Tuxy, it is quite interesting to see how this evolves. I had this discussion with a former inter-county player last week, he has basically stopped watching most football matches as he feels it's a waste of time. I made the argument that it's actually a period of transition for the game, it's evolving and is intriguing to watch.

The game of yore was also interesting in its own way, but there were definitely less tactics involved. A lot of the time it was a case of playing a 50/50 ball into your forward line and hoping for the best. It's amazing to see how much the game has changed, and the concept of pure man versus man, stay in your position and fight for your ball, has gone from the game.

I wouldn't blame coaches, their role at the end of the day is to be successful - if they aren't breaking the rules then it's fair game. What may happen in future is a reduction to 13-a-side.

As someone mentioned, tactics will be evolved to get around the blanket defence, and the game will change once more. Let it be, watch what happens. Do people want a return to a more innocent game of hoofing the ball up and leaving it in the lap of the gods?

Interesting times indeed for Gaelic football...

mattser

Clare in Exile wrote: »

I actually agree with Tuxy, it is quite interesting to see how this evolves. I had this discussion with a former inter-county player last week, he has basically stopped watching most football matches as he feels it's a waste of time. I made the argument that it's actually a period of transition for the game, it's evolving and is intriguing to watch.

The game of yore was also interesting in its own way, but there were definitely less tactics involved. A lot of the time it was a case of playing a 50/50 ball into your forward line and hoping for the best. It's amazing to see how much the game has changed, and the concept of pure man versus man, stay in your position and fight for your ball, has gone from the game.

I wouldn't blame coaches, their role at the end of the day is to be successful - if they aren't breaking the rules then it's fair game. What may happen in future is a reduction to 13-a-side.

As someone mentioned, tactics will be evolved to get around the blanket defence, and the game will change once more. Let it be, watch what happens. Do people want a return to a more innocent game of hoofing the ball up and leaving it in the lap of the gods?

Interesting times indeed for Gaelic football...

I'll take innocent over inane every time, thanks.

Do you honestly expect people to believe that you looked through that entire video, and didn't come away even slightly embarrassed ?

Interesting times ? Yea, right.

bennyc

charolais0153 wrote: »

For the abbey kids,which is better:to get hammered by 50 points to no score or that. From being part of the worst team in the worst division in my county i was on the end of plenty of drubbings. 18-20 vs 0-02 was one last year.[at minor]

The attacking team was ponderous and didnt try to attack either ,pushed no players forward.

I am in agreement here, for all anyone know is both sets of kids are 100% behind the tactics. How many times in sports do we hear analysts saying that if "team a" can keep with "team b" until the last ten minutes you don't know what could happen and they would be in with a chance. I would say all Abbey players were quite happy with the way that game was panning out knowing that they were going to go head to head in the last 10. The defending team being 100% fit for it too. I would actually love to see some footage of that which would show if there was a massive gulf in class between the teams.

In my opinion the problem is not with the coaches its with the rules, basketball had the same issues until a shot clock was introduced. Regardless of what anyone says it is winning that matters, even look at u6 and u8 games, no scores are kept but you can be sure the kids know who won.
Introduce the shot clock, we could actually use it to keep time too and solve the problem of teams killing off the last few minutes of a game.

bucketybuck

Which coach is worse, the sad little man for whom the result of a Brock cup game is so important that he demands 15 year old boys all stay in their half and try to park the bus?

or the coach of the side that can only score 2 points despite not having to worry about defending at all? Seriously, who decided that passing the ball back and forth in midfield was the correct strategy there? Was there nobody with the balls to take a long distance shot or make a run to draw a free?

Mike Oxlong

Should the referee not have got involved and instructed the players to...well actually play...or abandon the match

The_Kew_Tour

And people wonder why Football is losing people's interest

LeinsterDub

Do we have to wait for a no score draw in the All Ireland championship before something is done?

LeinsterDub

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

Should the referee not have got involved and instructed the players to...well actually play...or abandon the match

The quality of the game isn't the referees job.

nice_guy80

I've seen some schools rugby games finish 6-3

So that's 2 scores to 1.
I don't remember an outcry about the state of rugbt

charolais0153

Its a team game. And the sum of the abbey teams is better than the parts. Would people prefer if they got hammered?

yabadabado

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

Should the referee not have got involved and instructed the players to...well actually play...or abandon the match

That's nonsense. Not the refs job to tell a team how to play.

Augme

Eoinbmw wrote: »

Its completely the coaches fault!

Not soley. It's the clubs and parents fault. As a coach your job is to win and if you don't win then the clubs and parents aren't going to want you as a coach. If this style gives the coach the best chance to win it's a difficult position for him to not go with it.

Parents are the worst tbh. A huge amount of little interest in seeing their kid develop but just want to see then win.

Tell me how

+1 here for it being the coaches fault.
Parents can be a source of problem in getting involved in how teams play from the sidelines without being willing to get involved officially but this came from the coach.

It most definitely should not be all about winning. Ending a GAA game on a score of 0-2 to 0-1 should be embarrassing to put your name to it.

Colm Parkinson was apoplectic on Twitter yesterday about this. Named the coach involved and lambasted him.

Mike Oxlong

yabadabado wrote: »

That's nonsense. Not the refs job to tell a team how to play.

Nope, but like a jockey being banned for not trying on a horse....the gaa will now have to make sure this situation never arises again .

sydthebeat

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I've seen some schools rugby games finish 6-3

So that's 2 scores to 1.
I don't remember an outcry about the state of rugbt

You could have an absorbing game of rugby where the two teams go at each other hammer and thongs and end with a 6-3.
Still a much better spectacle than that dross in the op.

That's basically basketball on a much bigger playing area with 30 players

Tell me how

sydthebeat wrote: »

You could have an absorbing game of rugby where the two teams go at each other hammer and thongs and end with a 6-3.
Still a much better spectacle than that dross in the op.

That's basically basketball on a much bigger playing area with 30 players

With no shot clock.

sydthebeat

Tell me how wrote: »

With no shot clock.

Have you just stumbled on a solution??

Tell me how

sydthebeat wrote: »

Have you just stumbled on a solution??

They tried something similar with the consecutive hand pass rule and we saw how that worked out.

tayto lover

Young lads should be allowed show their skills and flair and not be stymied by coaches. At that age and up to minor they should be not even coaching defensive rubbish.

OldMrBrennan83

The shot clock would encourage this drivel more.

TCM

evolving tipperary wrote:

I'm not trying to be smart, but how do you attack or defend without goals. Isn't the object to defend or attack a goal? Not a ball?

kippy wrote:

The GAA have to do something alright - but what to do is the difficult one. How does one incentivise attacking and skill full play, that may not necessarily lead to winning matches?

How about (as in basketball) once the ball is in possession of a team, crosses the half way line, the ball cannot be played back into the team's own half again during the possession.

bucketybuck

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I've seen some schools rugby games finish 6-3

So that's 2 scores to 1.
I don't remember an outcry about the state of rugbt

And I've seen soccer matches with no scores at all, 0-0 draws all over the place, whats up with that?

:rolleyes:

howiya

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

The shot clock would encourage this drivel more.

To a point. You'd likely see both teams defend this way with a shot clock but the attacking team would take more risks because they know if they lose the ball they'll get it back after the allotted time elapses.

I would have to see it trial led before coming down in favour or against it.

mattser

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I've seen soccer matches with no scores at all, 0-0 draws all over the place, whats up with that?

:rolleyes:

Usually both teams have a go. They don't sit in their respective half of the pitch for 90 minutes.

yabadabado

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

Nope, but like a jockey being banned for not trying on a horse....the gaa will now have to make sure this situation never arises again .

Not a thing the GAA can do about unless there is a change in rules.That will have to be passed at Congress, the very same thing could happen at any game today .
That is absolutely nothing like a jockey for not trying.

LeinsterDub

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I've seen some schools rugby games finish 6-3

So that's 2 scores to 1.
I don't remember an outcry about the state of rugbt

Next compare these apples to oranges