'Electric car sales surge by 542% as traditional market stalls'

Over on The Irish Times website this evening: Electric car sales surge by 542% as traditional market stalls

The switch to electric motoring appears to be moving into the fast lane with new figures showing electric car sales have risen by 542 per cent since the start of the year.

According to the Society of the Irish Motor Industry (Simi), there were 1,129 electric car registrations in January and February, up from just 176 in the same period last year.

The two-month tally for 2019 almost surpassed total sales for last year, which amounted to 1,233....

The performance of the rest of the car market tells a different story, Simi said, with new car registrations for the month of February down 11.1 per cent at 15,128 when compared with the same month last year.

Registrations for the year to date are also down by 12.2 per cent at 47,425 compared with last year (54,034).

---

Admittedly, it's starting from a low base and the article doesn't give the overall percentage of the market that electric cars constitute - it gives the electric figure for January and February, but gives the overall figure for February alone. However, can you see electric cars ever becoming the standard in the Irish market, or do you think some other technology will take over next? How long before petrol and diesel engines are no more?

The biggest downside for me of electric vehicles is the high price. This seems to be closely related to the limited range of cars available. The existing electric cars are aesthetically unpleasant as well so I'm just hoping more manufacturers move to producing electric vehicles or some environmentally better car and with this move competition, choice and price will be more attractive. How long is this move away from diesel/petrol going to take, and what can be done to speed it up?

Atoms for Peace

Cars sales are down this year, how long before our lawmakers concoct some hairbrain shceme to boost our "motor Industry".

suicide_circus

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Cars sales are down this year, how long before our lawmakers concoct some hairbrain shceme to boost our "motor Industry".

non car ownership will be taxed

the_pen_turner

Never; some other technology will replace diesel & petrol vehicles

the higher costs arent a huge problem if its cheaper day to day.


the 2 problems that are holding people back are the stupidly long charge times and terrible range. both of these cant be overcome for a long time .

James Brown

Within 20 years

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Cars sales are down this year, how long before our lawmakers concoct some hairbrain shceme to boost our "motor Industry".

Inspired by the movie 'Speed', anyone travelling less than 50 miles an hour will be given the 'pop quiz hotshot' tax.

ted1

Within 20 years

Higher purchase price but much lower running costs and very little maintenance costs

No exhaust , clutch, timing belt , spark plugs, coil packs, fly wheels etc to replace.

The brakes pads are even longer life because the cars use regen rather than the pads to stop.

About €3.20 in fuel to travel 300km v €30 for a car.

bazz26

What this article or these figures don't tell you is how many of those electric cars sold were bought by companies to avail of 0% BIK tax for their employees. As opposed to Mary living down the road who now paid 38k for a Hyundai Kona EV this year instead of her normal 23k Corolla or Focus. Take away these incentives and the figures would be quite different I'd imagine. These cars are still expensive despite being loaded with grants and tax benefits which won't be sustainable long term.

Of course all of this is nowhere near as glossy or attention grabbing as the tabloid headline of EV sales up 542%.

amcalester

How do we pin the blame for this on the Brits?

ted1

Within 20 years

amcalester wrote: »

How do we pin the blame for this on the Brits?

The Nissan Leaf is made there, our electrical system is based on their’s.

Because they enslaved us for 700 years and committed mass genocide in the 1850s we drive on the left and hence have a poor selection if EVs compared to other countries.

kneemos

How many new power stations will we need if everyone goes electric?

ted1

Within 20 years

kneemos wrote: »

How many new power stations will we need if everyone goes electric?

3.5

kub

Was there any mention in the article of second hand imports from the UK?

bazz26

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the higher costs arent a huge problem if its cheaper day to day.


the 2 problems that are holding people back are the stupidly long charge times and terrible range. both of these cant be overcome for a long time .

On this point, let's take the Hyundai Kona as an example. Even with the grants the electric version costs 38k, the petrol version costs 23k. That's a difference of 15k so you would want to be getting a lot of charging to make that 15k back.

People also assume that electric cars will be cheaper to run forever, they won't. The motorist is a constant revenue stream for the Government through the likes of VRT, motor tax, VAT and fuel duties. They ain't just going to give that up if people ditch their ICE cars for EV cars. The revenue stream has to be maintained so it's not sustainable. Once they get the masses over to EVs you can be sure they will have new ways of taxing you for owning one.

ted1

Within 20 years

bazz26 wrote: »

On this point, let's take the Hyundai Kona as an example. Even with the grants the electric version costs 38k, the petrol version costs 23k. That's a difference of 15k so you would want to be getting a lot of charging to make that 15k back.

People also assume that electric cars will be cheaper to run forever, they won't. The motorist is a constant revenue stream for the Government through the likes of VRT, motor tax, VAT and fuel duties. They ain't just going to give that up if people ditch their ICE cars for EV cars. The revenue stream has to be maintained so it's not sustainable. Once they get the masses over to EVs you can be sure they will have new ways of taxing you for owning one.

The new 208 has a difference of 9k, so 90Km is the break even point. That’s without factoring in additional savings from tax and maintenance

SEPT 23 1989

amcalester

ted1 wrote: »

The Nissan Leaf is made there, our electrical system is based on their’s.

Because they enslaved us for 700 years and committed mass genocide in the 1850s we drive on the left and hence have a poor selection if EVs compared to other countries.

So if it wasn’t for the Brits we could have more EVs?

Disgraceful, I’m outraged. @OP did you know this?

klaaaz

So a tiny minority of wealthy people managed to buy electric cars while the rest of us make do with petrol/diesel. So how is this headline going to be beneficial to the population?

ted1

Within 20 years

klaaaz wrote: »

So a tiny minority of wealthy people managed to buy electric cars while the rest of us make do with petrol/diesel. So how is this headline going to be beneficial to the population?

300,000 deaths globally a year due to burning fossil fuels. So less deaths, however this leads to bigger social issues such as strain on state pensions , housing stock, food supplies

klaaaz

ted1 wrote: »

300,000 deaths globally a year due to burning fossil fuels. So less deaths, however this leads to bigger social issues such as strain on state pensions , housing stock, food supplies

This does not affect or is beneficial to Ireland. Sure lets have a cleaner environment and all that, have you preached your stats to China, India, Philippines, Indonesia and Brazil ?
If we all Irish switched to electric vehicles(assuming it's cost effective for the vast majority and not just for the wealthy), it won't help the global fossil fuel situation a bit. There is a core of 2.5bn plus people who are the biggest polluters and will never able to afford electric cars at all.

Junkyard Tom

Within 20 years

kneemos wrote: »

How many new power stations will we need if everyone goes electric?

The money saved on fuel would easily pay for a barrel of electricity.

I was in a jaguar sales room the other day, I’d love their electric car but at €120k I probably won’t be buying one any time soon.

As for things like the leaf, why do they make electric cars look like something only old people drive?

kneemos

Aegir wrote: »

I was in a jaguar sales room the other day, I’d love their electric car but at €120k I probably won’t be buying one any time soon.

As for things like the leaf, why do they make electric cars look like something only old people drive?

Only old folk can afford them

The new Honda looks kinda funky,as does the new SEAT

bazz26

ted1 wrote: »

300,000 deaths globally a year due to burning fossil fuels. So less deaths, however this leads to bigger social issues such as strain on state pensions , housing stock, food supplies

Yet the likes of the US, China, India, etc who are the biggest polluters and drain on the planet's resources continue to not give a **** about the planet.

And if we want to utilise our resources wisely then sustaining existing perfectly good vehicles for many years to come is a better way of doing it rather than pushing everyone to change over to new "cleaner" cars that cost resources and energy to produce. But it's not about saving the planet really, it's about sustaining consumerism which drives world economies. The global motor industry's image got severely damaged by the likes of the dieselgate scandal so they needed a new big ticket to sell. What better way to do that tell consumers their new products are much better than those old ones.

bazz26

ted1 wrote: »

The new 208 has a difference of 9k, so 90Km is the break even point. That’s without factoring in additional savings from tax and maintenance

By tax I assume your talking about motor tax? Most new cars these days have very low motor tax. And as I mentioned in an earlier post taxes on EVs are not going to be low forever as there is a revenue stream to be maintained. As for maintenance, most new cars come with service inclusive packages now that last for the length of the manufacturer's warranty which on average is about the length of time your average new car buyer usually keeps their car before changing it for another.

kneemos

bazz26 wrote: »

By tax I assume your talking about motor tax? Most new cars these days have very low motor tax. And as I mentioned in an earlier post taxes on EVs are not going to be low forever as there is a revenue stream to be maintained. As for maintenance, most new cars come with service inclusive packages now that last for the length of the manufacturer's warranty which on average is about the length of time your average new car buyer usually keeps their car before changing it for another.

VRT is much higher.They're not losing much or anything,even with the discount.

Casati

It’s 2.3% market share not bad and growth is super but not a big impact yet. I’d be interested to know UK import figs if anybody has them - looks v attractive to import EV’s and PHEV’s as VRT is practically a non issue

Wibbs

Never; some other technology will replace diesel & petrol vehicles

bazz26 wrote: »

And if we want to utilise our resources wisely then sustaining existing perfectly good vehicles for many years to come is a better way of doing it rather than pushing everyone to change over to new "cleaner" cars that cost resources and energy to produce. But it's not about saving the planet really, it's about sustaining consumerism which drives world economies.

This. So much this. Current levels of consumerism are the biggest issue with our impact on the environment. How many phones have you owned, how many have gone into the bin. If they're lucky they'll end up being used in developing countries, or they'll go into landfill. Think on this: Since the year 2000 we have manufactured half of all plastics produced ever since the invention of the material. Half.

EV are less polluting locally after sale than ICE cars. However the cost of building them in the first place is higher. The cost of building any new car is high, but take the ICE. Its energy storage tank is a steel box. Take an EV. Its energy storage tank is a very large box containing a goodly chunk of rare earth elements, elements that exact a huge local cost in mining and we'll need to find more sources of the stuff if we all go EV and these batteries are devilishly hard to recycle.

Never mind that the infrastructure isn't near to being there for EV taking half an hour(at least) to charge, nor is the amount of extra leccy capacity. Capacity that in Ireland and in most places around the globe is supplied by burning fossil fuels. And what if you live in an apartment without a parking space and charging point? To get charging times down to anything practical you'll need high capacity chargers which ups the supply issues even more so.

EV's still have a shedload of issues. For urban commutes, or in shorter journeys in well populated small countries with temperate weather? Yep, bang on, if we increase the charging options and capacity and make the production of that capacity green. Otherwise the ICE still has the advantage.

ted1

Within 20 years

bazz26 wrote: »

By tax I assume your talking about motor tax? Most new cars these days have very low motor tax. And as I mentioned in an earlier post taxes on EVs are not going to be low forever as there is a revenue stream to be maintained. As for maintenance, most new cars come with service inclusive packages now that last for the length of the manufacturer's warranty which on average is about the length of time your average new car buyer usually keeps their car before changing it for another.

Clutches , timing belts, dmf, dbf, coil packs, catalaytic convertors are not covered under service packages

Casati

ted1 wrote: »

Clutches , timing belts, dmf, dbf, coil packs, catalaytic convertors are not covered under service packages

Majority of new car buyers don’t suffer from these compliants as they will have traded up before then

unkel

Within 20 years

bazz26 wrote: »

On this point, let's take the Hyundai Kona as an example.

Let's not. Let's take the Hyundai Ioniq as an example. I paid €25k for mine including metallic paint, on the road. This is similar to what a Skoda Octavia (or similar size and segment) diesel automatic with a decent spec would have cost me.

Then:

1. fuel costs on the EV are 80% cheaper at least than on the diesel
2. depreciation on the diesel car is far higher than on an EV
3. motor tax is lower on the EV
4. maintenance is almost none existent on the EV (just tyres really)
5. you save up to EUR500 per year on tolls
6. in many towns parking is free for an EV if you charge. Public charging is still completely free
7. you get a home charger installed with a EUR600 subsidy (so completely free if you buy a lower end or second hand charger)
8. with many bigger companies or state agencies you get free work charging
9. you can charge up your car with your own solar panels - how cool is that?
10. you are immune to the impending carbon taxes hikes and expected increases in excise duty on diesel and motor tax on diesel
11. you are immune to any possible bans or pollution charges on diesel
12. for the people who it might interest, the EV is far quicker away from the lights than the diesel
13. the diesel does not have autonomous level 2 driving (very handy if your commute is a busy M50)

Unless you very often drive beyond the range of the car and you don't have work or destination charging, I wouldn't advise one. But who honestly does? I could drive 160k km per year with only ever charging at home

ted1

Within 20 years

Wibbs wrote: »

This. So much this. Current levels of consumerism are the biggest issue with our impact on the environment. How many phones have you owned, how many have gone into the bin. If they're lucky they'll end up being used in developing countries, or they'll go into landfill. Think on this: Since the year 2000 we have manufactured half of all plastics produced ever since the invention of the material. Half.

EV are less polluting locally after sale than ICE cars. However the cost of building them in the first place is higher. The cost of building any new car is high, but take the ICE. Its energy storage tank is a steel box. Take an EV. Its energy storage tank is a very large box containing a goodly chunk of rare earth elements, elements that exact a huge local cost in mining and we'll need to find more sources of the stuff if we all go EV and these batteries are devilishly hard to recycle.

Never mind that the infrastructure isn't near to being there for EV taking half an hour(at least) to charge, nor is the amount of extra leccy capacity. Capacity that in Ireland and in most places around the globe is supplied by burning fossil fuels. And what if you live in an apartment without a parking space and charging point? To get charging times down to anything practical you'll need high capacity chargers which ups the supply issues even more so.

EV's still have a shedload of issues. For urban commutes, or in shorter journeys in well populated small countries with temperate weather? Yep, bang on, if we increase the charging options and capacity and make the production of that capacity green. Otherwise the ICE still has the advantage.

The charging capacity is here , We’ve so much RES that we have to curtail it. Especially at night when the demand is lower. We can inky have a SNSP of 65%. If we have cars charging at night we can allow the curtailed wind onto the grid

denismc

Within 20 years

330 EVs sold in February 2019 vs 72 in February 2018, so that's a 358 % increase on last February, so looks like the trend is continuing.

grudgehugger

I find this thread a little bizarre but acknowledge I’m biased as I’ve shelled out 30k for a new Leaf in mid 18.

With my commute / mileage I easily save €1500 a year compared to an ICE car.

My car buying approach is to buy something new or close to new and drive it until it’s dead (at least 8 years - ideally much more). This may be a silly approach but it’s what I do.y

Taking into account the fuel savings over time (say 12k over 8 years) and the features I love about my Leaf like the super fast acceleration, heated seats, heated steering wheel, pre-heating every morning so I’m ALWAYS toasty warm, adaptive cruise control etc. Then I like my end of the bargain....

My logic may be flawed (please call me out if so) but the negativity in the other posts in this thread is way off my day to day experience of owning an EV. Way way off

denismc

Within 20 years

grudgehugger wrote: »

I find this thread a little bizarre but acknowledge I’m biased as I’ve shelled out 30k for a new Leaf in mid 18.

With my commute / mileage I easily save €1500 a year compared to an ICE car.

My car buying approach is to buy something new or close to new and drive it until it’s dead (at least 8 years - ideally much more). This may be a silly approach but it’s what I do.y

Taking into account the fuel savings over time (say 12k over 8 years) and the features I love about my Leaf like the super fast acceleration, heated seats, heated steering wheel, pre-heating every morning so I’m ALWAYS toasty warm, adaptive cruise control etc. Then I like my end of the bargain....

My logic may be flawed (please call me out if so) but the negativity in the other posts in this thread is way off my day to day experience of owning an EV. Way way off

Nothing wrong with you logic, I am the same as you, bought a demo Hyundai last year for about 26k and I reckon I have already saved about 750 euro in diesel.
While EVs are not for everyone there are quite a few people out there after realizing that EVs can mean cheaper motoring.
But then not everyone rationalizes their purchases!

pwurple

Wibbs wrote: »

This. So much this. Current levels of consumerism are the biggest issue with our impact on the environment. How many phones have you owned, how many have gone into the bin. If they're lucky they'll end up being used in developing countries, or they'll go into landfill. Think on this: Since the year 2000 we have manufactured half of all plastics produced ever since the invention of the material. Half.

Part of the reason I bought an EV four years ago was for this... we were changing the car anyway, our old car was twelve years old, and was scrap. combustion engines have engine wear, they have a finite lifespan. EVs, not so much. Very few moving parts, no head gasgets, no oil, nothing to “wear”. People scaremongering about battery lifespan... my battery would be dead in two years they said. 4 years later, not a single cell depleted. As far as I can see so far, this EV will last me far longer than any other car I ever had. Every part of it functions as new today, just like the day I drove it off the forecourt. Never have I had a car like that before.

EV are less polluting locally after sale than ICE cars. However the cost of building them in the first place is higher. The cost of building any new car is high, but take the ICE. Its energy storage tank is a steel box. Take an EV. Its energy storage tank is a very large box containing a goodly chunk of rare earth elements, elements that exact a huge local cost in mining and we'll need to find more sources of the stuff if we all go EV and these batteries are devilishly hard to recycle.

yeah yeah, and oil comes from fairy dust, no metal or plastic in a combustion engine. Give me a break.

Never mind that the infrastructure isn't near to being there for EV taking half an hour(at least) to charge, nor is the amount of extra leccy capacity. Capacity that in Ireland and in most places around the globe is supplied by burning fossil fuels. And what if you live in an apartment without a parking space and charging point? To get charging times down to anything practical you'll need high capacity chargers which ups the supply issues even more so.

Where do I even start with this... oh la la.
Get your head past the petrol station mindset. You go to work every day of the week, park up, And maybe twice a week there, plug in that morning. it doesn’t matter two ****s how long it takes to charge, because you don’t stand there babysitting it like a combustion at a fuel station. Anyone who passes me at work plugging in over the years asks me how long it takes to charge. I haven’t a notion, because it doesn’t need me to pump the power in there manually.

Some of the fuel here is fossil... sure, sure, but we are at about 12-40% renewable depending on wind speed and demand. http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/ Power plants are 98% efficiency, how efficient is a petrol car at burning fuel... 40%? The rest of it is flaked out the tail pipe in heat and fumes. How much of the fuel in a combustion engine is EVER renewable, ever? 0%. At least with Ev, it CAN be renewable, and, bonus, it can help balance the grid. Here we are at night, no demand, and the grid can’t power down... why do you think they sell night saver power? car batteries can soak up that excess.

For urban commutes, or in shorter journeys in well populated small countries with temperate weather? Yep, bang on

Welcome to Ireland, perfect for EVs.

Dravokivich

Why do you expect your place of work to provide a charge point "for you".

unkel

Within 20 years

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why do you expect your place of work to provide a charge point "for you".

Who said they expect that?

peposhi

Never; some other technology will replace diesel & petrol vehicles

pwurple wrote: »

...http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/ Power plants are 98% efficiency, how efficient is a petrol car at burning fuel... 40%? The rest of it is flaked out the tail pipe in heat and fumes. How much of the fuel in a combustion engine is EVER renewable, ever? 0%...

17-21% efficiency in ICE vs 90-95^ in an EV according to Toni Seba’s “Clean Disruption”

pwurple

klaaaz wrote: »

So a tiny minority of wealthy people managed to buy electric cars while the rest of us make do with petrol/diesel. So how is this headline going to be beneficial to the population?

Short sided attitude there.

Look, there are 4 or 5 year old EVs out there now on the market secondhand for around the 10k - 12k mark. If you are stuck in the 2k car band, yes, you’re going to find it hard to get one for another few years. So, seeing this quantity of new ones increase will benefit the wider population longer term, as those gradually filter into secondhand.

pwurple

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why do you expect your place of work to provide a charge point "for you".

I don’t expect, but if they do provide, I will use it.

It’s a good time for businesses to put them in though, while there is this grant going. My current place of work has 22 charging spots in their car park. Only 16 people work there with EVs at the moment, not all on the same hours, but they are future proofing.

Henry Ford III

pwurple wrote:

Some of the fuel here is fossil... sure, sure, but we are at about 12-40% renewable depending on wind speed and demand.

Quite a spread of ranges there

peposhi

Never; some other technology will replace diesel & petrol vehicles

klaaaz wrote: »

So a tiny minority of wealthy people managed to buy electric cars while the rest of us make do with petrol/diesel. So how is this headline going to be beneficial to the population?

Wealthy... define this, please, as I am by no means a rich man and yet we are a 2 BEV family.
For the last 16 years in Ireland I have owned and driven Micra/Honda HRV/Micra/Yaris/Audi A4 before I bought my first Leaf. They would have costed me between €1600 and €5500 apart from the pure impulse Honda buy that set me back 10k...
A brand new Leaf in 2015 was costing me less per month to buy than to maintain my big madafaka wheels Micra or my 12 yo Audi A4 (both cars in excellent condition, so little trouble and maintenance money spent on them)
I seriously don’t get people complaining the EVs are expensive. Yes, Tesla and the I-Jags are but so is a new A4 or Mazda CX-5...

fricatus

Within 10 years

ted1 wrote: »

The charging capacity is here , We’ve so much RES that we have to curtail it. Especially at night when the demand is lower. We can inky have a SNSP of 65%. If we have cars charging at night we can allow the curtailed wind onto the grid

Can you help us out here? We’re not all familiar with energy industry terms. RES = Renewable Energy Services, but not even Google could tell me what SNSP is.

pwurple wrote: »

Anyone who passes me at work plugging in over the years asks me how long it takes to charge. I haven’t a notion, because it doesn’t need me to pump the power in there manually.

This is spot-on as an observation. Its the no 1 question I get asked and I still don’t know how best to answer without fobbing people off with a figure like “half an hour”

pwurple wrote: »

Some of the fuel here is fossil... sure, sure, but we are at about 12-40% renewable depending on wind speed and demand. http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Quite a spread of ranges there

Depends day-to-day on the wind, but it’s impressive: 61% renewable in the past 24 hours and 47% in the past month.

ted1

Within 20 years

Power plants are nowhere near 98% efficient. At best a plant is around 55% efficient.

SNSP= system non synchronous penetration. http://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/SNSP-Formula-External-Publication.pdf

3.2 http://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/Operational-Constraints-Update-January-2018.pdf

kneemos

ted1 wrote: »

Power plants are nowhere near 98% efficient. At best a plant is around 55% efficient.

SNSP= system non synchronous penetration. http://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/SNSP-Formula-External-Publication.pdf

3.2 http://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/Operational-Constraints-Update-January-2018.pdf

10-15% loss through the lines as well.

Shefwedfan

Unfortunately I wouldn’t read too much into these numbers, says more about the government lack of action to stop the market getting flooded with old diesels from uk

People are not buying new when they are buying nearly new from uk with better spec for cheaper price

Electric is up but the combustion market is still in full force

Dravokivich

unkel wrote: »

Who said they expect that?

Everyone who talks about charging in work does.

Shefwedfan

Dravokivich wrote: »

Everyone who talks about charging in work does.

????

I have chargers on work and never use them

Does that count?

Dakota Dan

ted1 wrote: »

Higher purchase price but much lower running costs and very little maintenance costs

No exhaust , clutch, timing belt , spark plugs, coil packs, fly wheels etc to replace.

The brakes pads are even longer life because the cars use regen rather than the pads to stop.

About €3.20 in fuel to travel 300km v €30 for a car.

Until the battery needs replacing.

goat2

Within 20 years

If I could finance a new car right now, I would love to try the ev, but that will have to wait somewhere 6 yrs down the line as my car is relatively new at just 4 yrs old,

but I can see people that buy a new car every 10 yrs changing over, they get their value out of their cars, as opposed to people changing to new every couple years

Dakota Dan

542% of very little is still very little.