Cupra Born

Third_Echelon

Leonidas BL wrote: »

They are sold here also by a limited number of dealers, if not just one dealer. I think you could be right about it being a hit, I mean it looks awesome and apparently will be around the price of a Golf GTi

Yeah for GTI money this could be big!

Leonidas BL

KCross wrote: »

It mentions 2.9s for 0-31 for the Cupra so wouldn’t that roughly align with the ID.3 1st edition?

Sure my sh1tty auld Mazda would probably get to 30 in 2.9 seconds

KCross

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Sure my sh1tty auld Mazda would probably get to 30 in 2.9 seconds

What’s your point?

That’s the figure they’ve given. It’s the same platform as the ID.3. Looks like they will have very similar times based on that.

Leonidas BL

KCross wrote: »

What’s your point?

That’s the figure they’ve given. It’s the same platform as the ID.3. Looks like they will have very similar times based on that.

My point is that any car could do that time. Ya cant go by that...

KCross

Leonidas BL wrote: »

My point is that any car could do that time. Ya cant go by that...

If it does 0-31mph in 2.9 it will be more than double that to 62. There won’t be anything more than fractions of a sec between this and the ID.3 based on VW and Cupra reported figures.

If you don’t agree what do you think is a best case scenario for 0-62 for this car? The 2.9s has to feed into your figure.

Leonidas BL

KCross wrote: »

If it does 0-31mph in 2.9 it will be more than double that to 62. There won’t be anything more than fractions of a sec between this and the ID.3 based on VW and Cupra reported figures.

If you don’t agree what do you think is a best case scenario for 0-62 for this car? The 2.9s has to feed into your figure.

I reckon as speed climbs, you need more and more power to keep going faster. I reckon the difference in power between cars are only really noticeable after several seconds of acceleration. The Cupra will be quicker to 100 but not by a massive margin.

KCross

"Leonidas wrote:

The Cupra will be quicker to 100 but not by a massive margin.

That’s more or less what I’m saying. We’re in agreement so!

tooth*grinder

Press unveiling of it today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCNuRD0PfNI

It says Cupra on the front but its an ID Tres really. All they seemed to have done is change the nose a bit.

[Deleted User]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNTbuPK-EA

This is the car the ID3 should have been. I would have ordered this if the timing had worked out for me but sadly it arrived too late.

Oafley Jones

I wish they’d kept the Seat badge because what they went with is ****ing awful. It’s like reject album art for 90s Load era Metallica.

embraer170

Looks like a Peugeot from the front.

Patser

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I wish they’d kept the Seat badge because what they went with is ****ing awful. It’s like reject album art for 90s Load era Metallica.

Thing is you couldn't charge more than VW for a Seat. But on paper the El born is better than the id3, so when originally announced a few years ago, the Seat El born looked to be a way to get a better, cheaper id3.

VAG group realised that would undercut their new glorious e revolution profits, so they drove Seat to Halfords, spray painted everything matt grey and vóila Cupra was born - a new 'premium' brand not to be confused with Audi who do everything in metallic grey - which allows them to sell Seat cars at a higher price than a VW, so as to not undercut their main brand.



Edit: Wait a few more years and VRS brand will be launched, with a flat grey paint line, as a way of stopping Skoda doing too well

tooth*grinder

Patser wrote: »

as a way of stopping Skoda doing too well

It looks like Skoda didn't need help in that to be fair.

cloudhopper19

So the sports side of Seat unveiled their ID3 competition the Cupra Born. No pricing yet for the Irish market, but going by the videos it looks more premium than the ID3. So now I have more decisions to make - jump for the ID3 now or wait for the Cupra later this year.

https://www.cupraofficial.ie/cars/cupra-range/born.html

the_amazing_raisin

Well, in terms of the drivetrain it'll be exactly the same as the ID.3

They can mess around with the programming to give it a sportier feel but the likelihood is that you'd be able to do that in the user settings anyway

So it's down to looks and the interior quality. From initial looks the Born is going to be a lot nicer inside than the ID.3. Not sure if the materials will be better but there seems to be a nicer selection of colours

I'd say that'll come at a cost however, I'd say the top spec will go for a premium above the equivalent ID.3

fafy

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Well, in terms of the drivetrain it'll be exactly the same as the ID.3

They can mess around with the programming to give it a sportier feel but the likelihood is that you'd be able to do that in the user settings anyway

So it's down to looks and the interior quality. From initial looks the Born is going to be a lot nicer inside than the ID.3. Not sure if the materials will be better but there seems to be a nicer selection of colours

I'd say that'll come at a cost however, I'd say the top spec will go for a premium above the equivalent ID.3

A significant premium, as an example, take a look at the Seat Leon top spec 1.4 PHEV, then look at the Cupra Leon equivalent PHEW,allthough more powerful and better specced, its roughly 12k extra at over 47k, so the Cubra Born will likely be 50k minimum in its 77kwh variant.

sy_flembeck

fafy wrote: »

A significant premium, as an example, take a look at the Seat Leon top spec 1.4 PHEV, then look at the Cupra Leon equivalent PHEW,allthough more powerful and better specced, its roughly 12k extra at over 47k, so the Cubra Born will likely be 50k minimum in its 77kwh variant.

I'm sitting in one of these atm. New model FR+ 204bhp PHEV weighed down with extras. Even at that the basic Cupra Leon was approx. €9k dearer - I couldn't justify it even if I had the money (which I hadn't). The Born won't be cheap. With a bit of luck they'll release a Seat version as originally expected though

AMKC

tooth*grinder wrote: »

It looks like Skoda didn't need help in that to be fair.

What do you mean? Skoda are doing better than they have ever done and making great cars too. Every second car you see these days is a Skoda. They are in the top 5 sales in Ireland. The Enyaq is better looking than its VW equivalent and probably better too.

tooth*grinder

AMKC wrote: »

What do you mean? Skoda are doing better than they have ever done and making great cars too. Every second car you see these days is a Skoda. They are in the top 5 sales in Ireland. The Enyaq is better looking than its VW equivalent and probably better too.

For me the pricing of the Enyaq is bizzare. But I guess VW doesn't like being undercut, which might expalin why this car looked alot more interesting a year ago than the IDtres its become.
For the record I've no problem with Skodas; owned a couple in my time, great cars indeed.

the_amazing_raisin

tooth*grinder wrote: »

For me the pricing of the Enyaq is bizzare. But I guess VW doesn't like being undercut, which might expalin why this car looked alot more interesting a year ago than the IDtres its become.
For the record I've no problem with Skodas; owned a couple in my time, great cars indeed.

Basically the drivetrain is all made in 1 factory, which will take a while to pay for the massive conversion job to building EVs

So Skoda can't make savings on materials, and they can't make savings on labour since German factory wages are somewhat higher than Czech ones

Until Skoda start building the cars from scratch they won't be able to significantly undercut VW.

It seems that this is part of the plan since VW group has been trying to position the different brands into different market groups. Skoda seems to be getting focused towards more sporty customers whereas Seat/Cupra seems to be targeted towards the "cool" audience

liamog

The Enyaq is built in Mladá Boleslav, the parts for the MEB platform are built in other VW group factories and shipped there for assembly. The Born is built on the same production line as the ID.3 in Zwickau.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

The Enyaq is built in Mladá Boleslav, the parts for the MEB platform are built in other VW group factories and shipped there for assembly. The Born is built on the same production line as the ID.3 in Zwickau.

My mistake, I thought it was built in Zwickau along with the other MEB cars

Do you know if they assemble the drivetrain the Mladá Boleslav or does it arrive assembled from Zwickau?

DaveyDave

The front end on this definitely looks nicer than the ID.3, is the infotainment bigger? Looks very large. I like the sport seats, also full surround view camera system that the ID.3 doesn't have?

Wonder how much this would be by comparison. I wonder will they price it high because it's the sporty Cupra brand...

silver_sky

DaveyDave wrote: »

The front end on this definitely looks nicer than the ID.3, is the infotainment bigger? Looks very large. I like the sport seats, also full surround view camera system that the ID.3 doesn't have?

Wonder how much this would be by comparison. I wonder will they price it high because it's the sporty Cupra brand...

Yeah, it has the 12" from the ID.4 instead of the 10" from the ID.3.

[Deleted User]

45kw net battery is 55kw gross.
https://www.cupraofficial.de/modelle/cupra-range/born/personalisierung.html

That means that both the id3 45kw and base Cupra born will be good fast chargers. 5 to 80% in 31 minutes.
Range is 348km WLTP.
lower ride height than id3 so probably slightly higher range at motorway speeds than id3.

KCross

haphaphap wrote: »

45kw net battery is 55kw gross.
https://www.cupraofficial.de/modelle/cupra-range/born/personalisierung.html

That means that both the id3 45kw and base Cupra born will be good fast chargers. 5 to 80% in 31 minutes.
Range is 348km WLTP.
lower ride height than id3 so probably slightly higher range at motorway speeds than id3.

I think the 3 MEB battery capacity options are now
82kWh/77kWh (gross/net),
62/58
and 55/52. The 48kWh version doesnt exist from what I can see.

I doubt the Cupra is any different and it would be a massive buffer to have 10kWh in there when they only have 5kWh for their top end MEB models.

[Deleted User]

KCross wrote: »

I thought the 3 MEB battery capacity options were
82kWh/77kWh (gross/net),
62/58
and 55/52.

I doubt the Cupra is any different?

The total hard capacities may be 82, 62 and 55 but soft limits can be changed to whatever they please.

For example the same battery pack is used on latest zoe in 40 and 52 versions but one is crippled to justify the lower asking price.

KCross

haphaphap wrote: »

The total hard capacities may be 82, 62 and 55 but soft limits can be changed to whatever they please.

They could.

Did the article you posted reference 45kWh nett? I dont see that... just a ref to 55kWh gross which fits with the rest of the MEB platform. Where did your 45kWh net come from?

[Deleted User]

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/files/live/sites/vwuk/files/pdf/Brochures/id-3-brochure-pricelist-p11d.pdf

45kWh version of ID3 has the same range therefore it is the same battery pack.
downside is it will be nearly as heavy as ID3 58kWh but upside is it will charge superfast for most of its curve.

KCross

haphaphap wrote: »

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/files/live/sites/vwuk/files/pdf/Brochures/id-3-brochure-pricelist-p11d.pdf

45kWh version of ID3 has the same range therefore it is the same battery pack.
downside is it will be nearly as heavy as ID3 58kWh but upside is it will charge superfast for most of its curve.

I'll be amazed if they have 10kWh buffer built into that.

It would make for a super long lasting battery pack as it will never be near 90%, not to mind 100% and it would have a great charge curve.

It just doesnt make much sense though. It would surely be easier, cheaper and more efficient (less weight) to not put the extra modules in than to hobble it with software.

It will be interesting to see what is inside the pack.