Vehicles blocking Cyclists passing

Greentree_uk

Thought it would be good to have a thread highlighting blocking of cyclists. its not suitable for the near miss thread. I've noticed it happen a lot recently especially busses. I understand if a vehicle is turning left but for vehicles travelling forward it only hinders traffic. the 1st example here is not the best as it is a bit of a squeeze at this section and it needs to be addressed but here's the video to start the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w46BUsUfF8

accensi0n

Eh... Only road users coming off bad in that video are cyclists.
I'm a cyclist.

amcalester

Yeah, looks like the cyclist in front complains to the bus driver for being too far to the left and then brakes the red light.

Grassey

The bus is the exact width of the lane... what is he to do overhang the lane on the right to allow cyclists to go up the inside?

Macy0161

Can't see the video, but yes, I have experienced cars deliberately blocking filtering, including mandatory cycle lanes!

amcalester

Macy0161 wrote: »

Can't see the video, but yes, I have experienced cars deliberately blocking filtering, including mandatory cycle lanes!

It definitely happens, another bugbear of mine is motorists stopping in the ADL boxes. Pure ignorance.

Greentree_uk

amcalester wrote: »

Yeah, looks like the cyclist in front complains to the bus driver for being too far to the left and then brakes the red light.

He wasn't giving out to the bus, he was looking for his cycling companion.. who got left behind.


"The bus is the exact width of the lane."

actually there's a good 1.5 foot of space to the right.

as advised not the best example just wanted to get a thread going.

Avatar MIA

Re-watched twice. The bus could not have positioned any differently. Can't see the 1.5 feet gap at all.

ted1

amcalester wrote: »

Yeah, looks like the cyclist in front complains to the bus driver for being too far to the left and then brakes the red light.

Rule 1 don’t go up the inside of a bus.

cdaly_

The one that irritates me is when drivers behind a car waiting to turn right pull left, blocking the cycle lane, when there is no space to pass. They could just as easily have stayed where they were.

It's got to the point where, if I'm in the car turning right, I'll stop, wait until the following driver stops directly behind me and only then indicate...

JeffKenna

Haha whole lot of cyclists breaking a red light... Any way to get them fined?

troyzer

There is nowhere near 1.5 feet on the right of the bus.

All I can see here is a bus taking up the entire lane and a load of cyclists breaking a red light.

Grassey

Greentree_uk wrote: »

"The bus is the exact width of the lane."

actually there's a good 1.5 foot of space to the right.

Stop the video at 10 seconds, as the cyclist is over taking. There are handful of inches between the bus and the dividing lane, where is the 1.5 foot coming from?

Even if he was as tight to the right as possible there wouldn't be enough space on the left to continue cycling.


* I do agree with the general sentiment that there are some twats who deliberately pull into the kerb on wide lanes to block cyclists coming up the inside, but I also come across others who'll attempt to re-align and create/leave space to allow bicycle flow when they are going nowhere.

The ones that roll up to a red light and continue until they block the bike boxes deserve to wrap themselves around a lamppost.

is_that_so

ted1 wrote: »

Rule 1 don’t go up the inside of a bus.

Yeah, some still do it. Hate that junction as a pedestrian personally. Some cyclists shuffle through but others come through that red at speed. On the video it seems a tad OTT by the cyclist and there are far worse examples. Double yellows on the inside anyway. TBH it's just a road user having to adjust because of what is in front of them. We all do that, it's part of being a road user.

Redhighking

I cycle everyday in Dublin City, I cannot understand why cyclists feel they have an obligation to move up in front to the traffic lights - whats wrong with waiting behind the bus safely?

Avatar MIA

Grassey wrote: »

... but I also come across others who'll attempt to re-align and create/leave space to allow bicycle flow when they are going nowhere.

Not looking for a medal, but I consciously try to do this, especially if I've passed a cyclist and then come to a stop shortly afterwards. They'll be on my mind.

amcalester

ted1 wrote: »

Rule 1 don’t go up the inside of a bus.

Fair point, wasn't advocating that he should go up the inside just that it looked like he was complaining that he couldn't.

Op has since clarified that was not the case.

jive

Redhighking wrote: »

I cycle everyday in Dublin City, I cannot understand why cyclists feel they have an obligation to move up in front to the traffic lights - whats wrong with waiting behind the bus safely?

'cause they spew that smelly sh out the vent by the rear left wheel. Can be nice on a cold day mind you

galwayllm

I cycle a lot around the city, but I also drive a hell of a lot around it also.

It's dangerous for cyclists no doubt but so many bike users are very dangerous on the roads with little regards for other road users.

GBX

Cyclists have a hard time on the roads no doubt from other road users. But instances where cyclists feel they should push up the inside of traffic to get to the front create their own dangers.
I'm a motorcyclist, yes we filter - some cyclists & drivers don't like it. It's not illegal but should only be done safely. There are times when I don't bother filtering as its not worth it - get behind queueing traffic too late and know the lights will change soon enough or theres no room. It wont kill me to stay behind. But seeing cyclists squeeze between buses /vans is frightening. Cyclists are part of traffic too and should give way as well if they cant get by safely.

PhuckHugh2

When i am driving on the road i am not driving to accommodate cyclists the same as when i am cycling i dont expect others to accommodate me. I am trying my best to obey the rules of the road and drive as safely as possible to protect myself and others. If it is possible to create space safely i will do this. But i dont expect people to move over either just to accomodate me on my bike. Doing it deliberately is another thing. But there was nothing deliberate about this video. There was barely enough room for the bus never mind creating some imaginary space. As another user said what is the big deal about waiting behind the bus.

The light is red anyway. I also obey the lights in both my car and my bike.
This video is proving nothing more than a good amount of cyclists couldn't care less about the rules of the road but will be the ones complaining if someone else does something stupid.

Chips Lovell

Nobody, regardless of vehicle type, has a god-given right to overtake. You overtake only when it is safe to do so. And there's only a limited set of circumstances when overtaking on the left is a good idea.

If in doubt, stay out.

Thinkingaboutit

Redhighking wrote: »

I cycle everyday in Dublin City, I cannot understand why cyclists feel they have an obligation to move up in front to the traffic lights - whats wrong with waiting behind the bus safely?

I try if possible myself to get to the front. It can be not getting a chest full of black soot from the bus as it pulls off, but generally it is more about not being at the mercy of vehicles which turn or manoeuvre without indicating. And if a junction has a filter lane controlled by a separate light, and the lanes are narrow, the only safe space can be at the top of the traffic.

Redhighking

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

I try if possible myself to get to the front. It can be not getting a chest full of black soot from the bus as it pulls off, but generally it is more about not being at the mercy of vehicles which turn or manoeuvre without indicating. And if a junction has a filter lane controlled by a separate light, and the lanes are narrow, the only safe space can be at the top of the traffic.

I agree but its the act of getting to the top of traffic which is unsafe - especially the aggressive filtering displayed in the video by a number of the cyclists, its not the Tour de France!

mathie

The annoying thing is when motorists overtake cyclists and then pull in to leave no space on the left when they reach the inevitable traffic ahead.
This is a daily occurance for me on the Malahide Road.

It's annoying but not illegal

Macy0161

Redhighking wrote: »

I cycle everyday in Dublin City, I cannot understand why cyclists feel they have an obligation to move up in front to the traffic lights - whats wrong with waiting behind the bus safely?

The whole point, and is why there are official advanced stop lines, is because it is the safest position for the cyclist to be in.

It's just another thing that is done for safety by cyclists, but assumed to be done simply to slow "me" down by many motorists.

OleRodrigo

What bothers me is waiting behind a bus instead of passing through the narrow gap on the left....only to find other cyclists tut tutting from behind and mounting the pavement to pass instead.

Happens regularly on the North Quays during morning rush hour, outside the 4 courts.

Grassey

Redhighking wrote: »

the aggressive filtering displayed in the video by a number of the cyclists, its not the Tour de France!

I don't think I've ever seen aggressive filtering in TDF

carter10

Typical cyclist attitude, moan about drivers but ignore the 5 cyclists breaking the red light.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

carter10 wrote: »

Typical cyclist attitude, moan about drivers but ignore the 5 cyclists breaking the red light.

a.) Read the charter. This isn't a forum for ranting about cyclists.

and b.) Did you even read the thread? it's full of cyclists disagreeing with each other about the topic raised. Who're the typical cyclists?

Seriously though, read the charter before posting again.

Artifacting

I'm not exactly sure where you expect the bus to go? It's definitely filling the full lane width. It's quite a tight lane.

Sometimes you just have to wait. There's no absolute right to overtake / undertake. Patience is necessary. If there's no space there's not much anyone can do other than wait until there is. That's just the nature of using roads. It's a city that was laid out in Georgian and Victorian times for horse and cart traffic. So a lot of the time the lanes are pretty squeezed in.

The only cities that I see working well have proper underground metro systems that avoid the need for so much surface traffic.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Seriously? Can you explain how this bus is "blocking" you? DB get a lot of stick here, and rightly so, but this is absolutely not one of those justifiable cases.

This thread is incredibly odd...

flatface

traffic blocking filtering? Oh the humanity. Sounds like the sort of silly gripe from some motorists - cyclists blocking my way.

So much cyclist filtering is completely pointless, you may save a few car lengths that takes all of a few seconds to cycle.
Queue in the traffic and wait for the traffic to take off again.

jim o doom

I am a cyclist and motorcyclist, I will be regularly at the head of the traffic indicating left, with no cyclist on my inside.

In this situation a cyclist is not legally entitled to undertake me, I am indicating that I am turning left and am at the head of the traffic.

Regularly, just as the lights change about 5 cyclists will cycle up my inside as I am attempting to turn left. Dangerous to them, and illegal.

So now if I'm at the head of the traffic turning left, I cut off the cycle lane which means nobody is able to undertake me.

Generally I'm only on the motorcycle during the really cold months and on the bicycle about mid Feb to November, so cycling a lot more than driving. As this is so annoying (and I'm not a moron), I obviously never undertake a left indicating vehicle.

In other words, through experience on the road in the city, I fully understand why a vehicle would "block the way" for a cyclist, as despite the number of good cyclists, it is the bad ones you have to plan for.

galwayllm

Weepsie wrote: »

Mod-No such thing as road tax. Any more mention of such nonsense and the thread will be swiftly closed as it will derail into yet another back and forth thread of endless whataboutery.

My apologies! I had no idea this was a contentious issue! I'll edit my post now.

The tax man

I'll give this thread a week tops before it's shut.There's only ever one direction these take and it's well underway. I'm sure the mods have better things to be doing with their lives.

amcalester

jim o doom wrote: »

I am a cyclist and motorcyclist, I will be regularly at the head of the traffic indicating left, with no cyclist on my inside.

In this situation a cyclist is not legally entitled to undertake me, I am indicating that I am turning left and am at the head of the traffic.

Regularly, just as the lights change about 5 cyclists will cycle up my inside as I am attempting to turn left. Dangerous to them, and illegal.

So now if I'm at the head of the traffic turning left, I cut off the cycle lane which means nobody is able to undertake me.

Generally I'm only on the motorcycle during the really cold months and on the bicycle about mid Feb to November, so cycling a lot more than driving. As this is so annoying (and I'm not a moron), I obviously never undertake a left indicating vehicle.

In other words, through experience on the road in the city, I fully understand why a vehicle would "block the way" for a cyclist, as despite the number of good cyclists, it is the bad ones you have to plan for.

There are a lot of people using the road who do not think about what they are doing, and sometimes you have to make their decision for them.

I would equate taking the lane as a cyclist to reduce the risk of close passes with your example of moving left to stop cyclists passing on the left.

galwayllm

07Lapierre wrote: »

D’ya reckon all these drivers don’t know the rules of the road? How many have a full driving license ( my bet is all of them)
What we need is more enforcement of existing laws for all road users.

https://youtu.be/FKhKwsfv7vQ

Lol.. If only they did!

Hardly any know the rules from what I can see! But they all do lessons

noodler

I find it incredible that a cyclist feels a bus driver should make space in its own lane for a bike.

I honestly question your view of the world if you think the bus driver was the one at fault in the video OP.

amcalester

galwayllm wrote: »

Lol.. If only they did!

Hardly any know the rules from what I can see! But they all do lessons

Which didn’t work, so why introduce something new when it has been shown to not work before?

punisher5112

Greentree UK.... I would love for you to sit in the driving seat of a bus especially on the video you posted bad mouthing how the bus blocks you.

The bus just about fits inside the lane it's in along those railings.

I drive that way occasionally and we were trained in such tight spaces to take up the inside space as believe me cyclists will try anything and it's in no way a safe place to be going up the inside of a vehicle weighing up to 19 ton.

Ethereal Cereal

jim o doom wrote: »

Regularly, just as the lights change about 5 cyclists will cycle up my inside as I am attempting to turn left. Dangerous to them, and illegal.

Nope, thats a perfectly legal action for cyclist to do.

jim o doom wrote: »

So now if I'm at the head of the traffic turning left, I cut off the cycle lane which means nobody is able to undertake me.

That's illegal, see reference below. For you own benefit, I would cease this behavior because if you cause an accident you could find yourself foul of the law.

https://www.cyclemanual.ie/manual/designing/4-5-left-turns/

"Where a single traffic lane with a kerbside cycle lane approaches a left turn, the straight ahead cycle lane should be continuous through the junction. Left turning motorists are expected to yield to any straight ahead cyclists before turning left."

Chips Lovell

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

Nope, thats a perfectly legal action for cyclist to do.

Actually, it's not. That's a road design manual you've cited, not the law. The law states:

(b) A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

(ii) is stationary for the purposes of permitting a passenger or passengers to alight or board the vehicle, or

(iii) is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading.”,

gctest50

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

That's illegal,

What section is it illegal under ?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/

AndrewJRenko

galwayllm wrote: »

You have do have lessons to drive a car on the road, and a motorbike. All for road safety.

So maybe cyclists should have to do one also. It's clear that a large amount of them have no idea how it works.

Do you need someone to explain to you the difference in risk and danger between a 10-20 kg bike doing 10-20 kmph and a 1-5 tonne vehicle doing 20-150 kmph?

Greentree_uk

oh wow this escalated quickly. really did not expect this..

gctest50

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you need someone to explain to you the difference in risk and danger between a 10-20 kg bike doing 10-20 kmph and a 1-5 tonne vehicle doing 20-150 kmph?

Some of the 10-20km/h crew might learn they are squishy


This illegal carry on demonstrates it through the medium of comedy :

amcalester

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

See link above, what you are suggesting is an illegal and dangerous action.



Except in this case, the cyclist are in on the right side of the law and the driver is taking the illegal action.

The cycling manual? It’s not law.

Have you a link to the specific law being broken in my example above?

AndrewJRenko

gctest50 wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you need someone to explain to you the difference in risk and danger between a 10-20 kg bike doing 10-20 kmph and a 1-5 tonne vehicle doing 20-150 kmph?

Some of the 10-20km/h crew might learn they are squishy

Most cyclists I know are well aware of their squishiness.

It's the idiot speeding drivers with the phone in their hand overtaking close enough to detect bad breath that need more lessons. It's not cyclists that kill 2 or 3 people each week on the roads and maim many more.

greenwaving

jim o doom wrote: »

I am a cyclist and motorcyclist, I will be regularly at the head of the traffic indicating left, with no cyclist on my inside.

In this situation a cyclist is not legally entitled to undertake me, I am indicating that I am turning left and am at the head of the traffic.

Regularly, just as the lights change about 5 cyclists will cycle up my inside as I am attempting to turn left. Dangerous to them, and illegal.

So now if I'm at the head of the traffic turning left, I cut off the cycle lane which means nobody is able to undertake me.

Generally I'm only on the motorcycle during the really cold months and on the bicycle about mid Feb to November, so cycling a lot more than driving. As this is so annoying (and I'm not a moron), I obviously never undertake a left indicating vehicle.

In other words, through experience on the road in the city, I fully understand why a vehicle would "block the way" for a cyclist, as despite the number of good cyclists, it is the bad ones you have to plan for.

What if there is an ASL? Would you still do the same? I am not sure of the legalities of cutting off the cycle lane as you stop at the lights but regardless it seems like an asshole thing to do on purpose especially if there is an ASL ahead of you that would allow the cyclists to safely stop in front.
Personally I would never "block off a cycle" lane just to ensure that I couldn't be undertaken. I just use my mirrors and wait if necessary as the cyclist passes - it only slows me down by a matter of seconds, means cyclists aren't forced/tempted to filter between lanes to reach the top of the junction and is generally safer for everyone imo

jim o doom

greenwaving wrote: »

What if there is an ASL? Would you still do the same? I am not sure of the legalities of cutting off the cycle lane as you stop at the lights but regardless it seems like an asshole thing to do on purpose especially if there is an ASL ahead of you that would allow the cyclists to safely stop in front.
Personally I would never "block off a cycle" lane just to ensure that I couldn't be undertaken. I just use my mirrors and wait if necessary as the cyclist passes - it only slows me down by a matter of seconds, means cyclists aren't forced/tempted to filter between lanes to reach the top of the junction and is generally safer for everyone imo

First of all, I don't know wwhat an ASL is, can you tell me what it is?

Secondly, as Baron de Charlus posted above, it is illegal for a cyclist to undertake a vehicle which has moved to turn and is indicating as such.. every single day I drive into town, somewhere between 2 to 5 cyclists in a row break the law and prevent me from turning left at a set of lights which I am currently at the head of.. when I'm on the motorbike.

So my choices are to allow these folk screw me over, and look at me confused thinking that they are in the right when I either beep or shout "IM TURNING LEFT" at them, OR I can prevent it from happening by blocking the head of the lane.

Since I'm at the head of the traffic, and on a powerful motorcycle, the moment the lights change (when all traffic is entitled to start moving), I am gone.

I am not blocking anyone from moving, when the light changes, I am merely preventing dangerous riders (who are unaware or don't care that they should not be undertaking a left turning vehicle) from undertaking me.

Trucks have "DO NOT UNDERTAKE WHEN VEHICLE TURNING LEFT" emblazoned on the rear of the truck.. because commen sense alone isn't enough for the average road user, cyclist or otherwise.

If I see cyclists in my rear view and I'm at the head of the traffic, I'm going to continue my current road usage, and prevent them from undertaking me when the lights change.

Someone else wondered about what liability I would have if I caused an accident - how would I cause an accident? A stationary vehicle indicating left, the only accident would be someone cycling or driving into me when I'm not moving, which is their fault completely.