Switching to EV from Diesel for daily commute

ChadHogan

Hi everyone, just looking for some general advice from people who have been there before.I have kicked off the research into buying an EV. Was going to run through my thinking and would be great if anyone could point out any flaws in my logic or highlight any pros or cons I’m missing.

This is mainly a financial decision. I currently spend approx 150 euro a month on diesel and 100 on M50 tolls For a 70km daily round trip. I think I can save 200 per month as Work are installing charging stations this year and there is 50 percent discount on the cost of tolls for EVs.

I jumped straight in looking at a new leaf on a PCP deal. Looking to trade in the wife’s 07 qashqai - looks like we can get 5000 scrappage for this, so I’d be shelling out 4000-5000 up front and would be paying 300 per month. Final payment is approx 8k after 3 years.

My car is an avensis estate which we’d hang on to for my wife’s commute but the leaf would be fine for most trips as a family of four .

I was just wondering if people thought there was better value out there either with different models or even second hand. Or are there any hidden costs I Haven’t thought of? We would plan to install a home chargepoint.

Any help is much appreciated.

unkel

I'm no expert on financing to buy a car, and I don't know if that is a good deal or not, so I won't comment on that. Do go to check out what deal you can get on a Hyundai Ioniq, they are better value for money if you can get a scrappage deal.

But your savings in running costs with an EV are substantial. Your toll saving is limited to EUR500 per year, but if you spend EUR1800 per year on diesel, you will save about EUR1500 by charging your car at home on night rate electricity. So those two alone will save you 2 grand per year. Then there is almost zero maintenance on an EV, which compares favourably with an elderly diesel that is likely to see some big bills (DMF / EGR / injectors / DPF / timing belt, etc.)

There is also a subsidy of EUR600 for the install of a home charger. If you are careful (and use a second hand charger), you can get this done without it costing you anything

You might also consider buying a second hand EV, if you are keeping the second hand for longer trips. I feel something like a 141 Leaf for about €9k is a good value for money deal. Then you will be really saving a lot of money, even compared to the older car you have now.

Alkers

Buying a new car to save 2k doesn't make much sense to me, especially in your case where you'll be keeping the second car and could manage with a relatively low range EV. Gen 1 leaf would do you fine and with work charging wont even cost you anything to run.

KCross

ChadHogan wrote: »

This is mainly a financial decision. I currently spend approx 150 euro a month on diesel and 100 on M50 tolls For a 70km daily round trip. I think I can save 200 per month as Work are installing charging stations this year and there is 50 percent discount on the cost of tolls for EVs.

unkel wrote: »

You might also consider buying a second hand EV, if you are keeping the second hand for longer trips. I feel something like a 141 Leaf for about €9k is a good value for money deal. Then you will be really saving a lot of money, even compared to the older car you have now.

Simona1986 wrote: »

Buying a new car to save 2k doesn't make much sense to me, especially in your case where you'll be keeping the second car and could manage with a relatively low range EV. Gen 1 leaf would do you fine and with work charging wont even cost you anything to run.

I'd say +1 to the previous two posters based on you saying the following...

- financial reasons for changing
- 2 car house so flexibility to take diesel when required
- work charging


If you dont mind the looks of the old leaf (you did say it was a financial decision!) then you should buy an older Leaf and forget spending €30k on a new car.

Save your money and hold out for one that has all the bells and whistles (SVE trim with 6.6kW charger).

It will charge faster at work with the 6.6kW charger but at 70km you wont even need work charging. The SVE trim will give you all the gadgets (360 camera, heated seats etc).

Also consider the other secondhand EV's.... eGolf, i3 etc. The Leaf will be got cheaper though.

Basically a car costs = repayments + interest + deprecation + fuel + maintenance.

If changing the car then EV makes sense if you want to change.

PCP is great provided you know what what you're getting into. I'm on my 2nd PCP and it took a while to get my head around it but glad I went PCP but the issue if that repayments are calculated and adjusted to make it more attractive to want a new car after year 3 than pay the balloon so basically with PCP you are kicking the can down the road meaning eventually the Balloon has to be paid.

For me, not wanting to keep the car past year 3 meant PCP was a cheap way to pay for the car with very low interest compared to HP or bank loan which would have been twice the interest and meant I'd probably have to keep the car 5 years instead of paying it over 3 years.

PCP repayments consist of the calculated depreciation over 3 years and xxx Kms + interest.

I am paying a lot less PM for PCP than I would for HP or bank loan but the big deal hear is that the reason PCP costs a lot less is because the balloon isn't factored into the repayments meaning you are not paying the total cost of the car for 3 years you pay the calculated depreciation + interest.

I would also not get a 40 kwh leaf now, I would wait until the end of the year or near the end and get the price of the 60 Kwh and then make your decision.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Basically a car costs = repayments + interest + deprecation + fuel + maintenance.

Wrong.

repayments are not costs...

ChadHogan

Thanks everyone, have started looking into the 2nd hand options. Resale values for 2-3 year old cars seems to be pretty strong.

One question for mad lad, in your 2nd PCP deal how did you fair out in terms of the value of the car versus the guaranteed minimum. I know that in 3 years time the landscape for EVs could be very different in terms of the supply and demand.

ChadHogan

ChadHogan wrote: »

Thanks everyone, have started looking into the 2nd hand options. Resale values for 2-3 year old cars seems to be pretty strong.

One question for mad lad, in your 2nd PCP deal how did you fair out in terms of the value of the car versus the guaranteed minimum. I know that in 3 years time the landscape for EVs could be very different in terms of the supply and demand.

I got 0 value in the 24 Kwh Leaf, back 1 year 3 months ago or a little more now. The BMW garage didn't even want the Leaf never mind give me money for it. Not even the Local Hyundai dealer would entertain giving me anything for the Leaf when I was looking around.

things have changed now however , in the beginning I did not get PCP with the expectation of getting any more than the GFMV. It was a cheap-ish loan and that's all I took it to be. More value could be got now but maybe not.

See the thing is that PCP is cleverly calculated out that you get something for deposit at the end but you are paying for this deposit by either paying higher monthly payments and/or the GFMV is Calculated so low in the first place that Nissan are guaranteed not to loose as was the case I think with the 40 Kwh.

So this means if the GFMV is 8 K this means that you are paying the bulk of the cost of the car in the first place plus taking all the hit on depreciation unless you get more than the 8 K GFMV and if you do you get some money back you're paying it monthly if this makes sense ?

In other words, you get nothing for nothing, the finance company wins all the time.

Stronger resale values will help but never assume that at the end of year 3 that you will have more than the GFMV unless the GFMV is ridiculously low to begin with and while PCP is a good way to buy cars when you don't intend to keep it after the 3 years you eventually have that balloon to cough up at some point in time and the carrot is lower monthly payments, the stick is the balloon and People need to know that if you can't pay the full cost of the car over the 3 years then they should not be taking out PCP because at year 3 if you don't want a new car you got to pay, in cash, or refinance the balloon.

You can walk away if you choose either but you have nothing and will have paid xxxx to drive the car over 3 years and xxxx Kms.

Casati

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I got 0 value in the 24 Kwh Leaf, back 1 year 3 months ago or a little more now. The BMW garage didn't even want the Leaf never mind give me money for it. Not even the Local Hyundai dealer would entertain giving me anything for the Leaf when I was looking around.

things have changed now however , in the beginning I did not get PCP with the expectation of getting any more than the GFMV. It was a cheap-ish loan and that's all I took it to be. More value could be got now but maybe not.

See the thing is that PCP is cleverly calculated out that you get something for deposit at the end but you are paying for this deposit by either paying higher monthly payments and/or the GFMV is Calculated so low in the first place that Nissan are guaranteed not to loose as was the case I think with the 40 Kwh.

So this means if the GFMV is 8 K this means that you are paying the bulk of the cost of the car in the first place plus taking all the hit on depreciation unless you get more than the 8 K GFMV and if you do you get some money back you're paying it monthly if this makes sense ?

In other words, you get nothing for nothing, the finance company wins all the time.

Stronger resale values will help but never assume that at the end of year 3 that you will have more than the GFMV unless the GFMV is ridiculously low to begin with and while PCP is a good way to buy cars when you don't intend to keep it after the 3 years you eventually have that balloon to cough up at some point in time and the carrot is lower monthly payments, the stick is the balloon and People need to know that if you can't pay the full cost of the car over the 3 years then they should not be taking out PCP because at year 3 if you don't want a new car you got to pay, in cash, or refinance the balloon.

You can walk away if you choose either but you have nothing and will have paid xxxx to drive the car over 3 years and xxxx Kms.

If you can’t pay the car off after three years pcp with a low interest loan is still a good idea if the apr is low ie you can simply refinance the gmv over another two or three years and your overall finance cost will still
be lower than if you took out a 5/6 year bank or credit union loan

Casati

Casati wrote: »

If you can’t pay the car off after three years pcp with a low interest loan is still a good idea if the apr is low ie you can simply refinance the gmv over another two or three years and your overall finance cost will still
be lower than if you took out a 5/6 year bank or credit union loan

Depends what rate you can get the credit for , PCP does give options though and 3 years to think about what you want to do with the car, new one or pay off the old one or hand keys.