How common is car clocking in Ireland?

W123-80's

Per thread title!
In all my years driving I can honestly say I don't think I have ever bought a clocked car, and if I have I got away with it in blissful ignorance!
Regulars will know my mechanical knowledge of cars is below average, I don't have a clue outside of the general basics but I am confident when it comes to reading adverts, guaging sellers and I try to stick to relatively low risk cars. That's my approach and it works!
But clocked cars is something that always perplexed me! Mostly because there are generally far too many red flags before ever you get to the discussion of clocking when buying a car. If clocking is even in the conversation then surely it's time to walk away.
Unless of course there are very sophisticated car clocking merchants out there, taking just the right amount of miles off a car to avoid suspicion. My gut tells me that would only work for cars in the low/mid price range, so maybe 3k to 6/7k. Anything priced lower and it's a gamble anyway and anything priced higher and you are surely going to insist on some sort of paperwork.
So if my ramble makes any sense, is car clocking a genuine concern in Ireland?

bazz26

Yes it is because there are still people out there that will pay a premium for a car with the lowest possible digits on the odometer yet do no background checks whatsoever to verify the mileage. Modern cars also wear mileage a lot better than before especially the interiors making clocking easier.

Sam Quentin

I would think there is not much 'lee-way' when it comes to clocking a car nowadays,.so I would assume it's not as common or as profitable as it was before the nct. Mileage is noted and available for all to see....

racso1975

And yet so many don't or won't check the information that's out there and available to them. I reckon it high enough but then I trust nobody!! Unless they can prove it to me with history etc that I can verify then I don't believe it.

monkeysnapper

i was looking at a hyundai i40 estate back in October , the car had done 367000 km and had a pile of service history . God dam that car drove like it just left the forecourt and if it had 100,000 miles on clock you wouldnt even batter an eyelid.

Atlantic Dawn

Very few people do history checks, the market is ripe for rip off.

Mintoe

Trust me it’s happening and its far more common than you’d think..... there are lots of people that simply don’t do any or enough checks before parting with € so it’s fairly easy to get away with..... do a Motorcheck report and check service & Nct records

zurbfoundation

its happening very regularly

Shefwedfan

Very very common. Especially on UK imports. Unfortunately I got caught, Audi from UK. I had bought a car from guy previously but he was in a different dealership. Car was pristine. I mean not a mark on it. They had service book with it all stamped and the mistake I made, they handed me the car check instead of me doing it.

The car drove like new, really lovely. Paid and something was nagging at me so I rang Audi UK. It was sold to me at 80k miles, the last service they had done was 2 years before at 150k miles. I was floored. Rang the dealer and was lucky to get money back, guy said it was his frist time etc etc but I checked another car on lot and it was clocked as well

A load of dealers in Dublin at it, happening all the time. I only work with main dealers now. Whatever chance you have it is only with them.

enricoh

A lad i worked with was finishing work one Friday and said he was off to see a Lithuanian magician.
I said naively is it one of the kids birthdays tomorrow and yer getting him in!
No, he was paying him e70 n getting it clocked. A week later he had a victim n car sold

mickdw

It's everywhere and since the law has toughened up, I don't know why more garages are not being dragged to court.
Pretty much everything imported private and sold on with UK plate is clocked.

Shefwedfan

https://www.whatcar.com/advice/buying/car-clocking-what-is-it-and-how-to-avoid-buying-a-clocked-car/n1219

Seems to be a huge issue in UK. Best case last year over 6000 car bought from UK clocked.

In reality you are probably looking at 50% plus of cars imported from UK are clocked.

Rows Grower

I was asked by a friend of mine who was interested in buying a used Mercedes CLK to come along for a look and the test drive, I'm no mechanic but he genuinely wouldn't have a clue what to look out for. When I heard it was 16 years old, one owner, with just over 32,000 miles on the clock I was very curious. It was a POA situation and although it was a main dealer selling it he wasn't a Mercedes dealer.

A quick look at the outside revealed 4 almost bald tyres and 4 alloy wheels that looked like they had been attacked with a wire brush attached to a drill. When I opened the passenger door I could see more chrome peeling, a piece actually fell into the footwell when I closed the door. We sat in the car waiting for the sales rep to get the garage plates and it was evident the car had a lot of cosmetic wear. The ashtray wouldn't open. The top of the passenger seat was worn away from being pushed back after allowing in back seat passengers.

On the test drive I asked the rep about service history, "there is none but the car is perfect".
How long do ye have the car "Oh we took it as a trade in about 7 or 8 years ago and the boss has been driving it the odd time since".
How much will it cost to tax it? "Not too sure about that now". (1,294 euro)
What kind of warranty will be given with it? "Warranty? Eh I'll ask the boss... I'll ask him for three months on the engine and gearbox and see what he says."
Then my friend asked how much would he take for it? "Well there's 7,000 written in my folder but I could try to get him down a bit if you're really interested he might go as low as 6,500 cash."

I had to talk my friend out of buying this car, and surprise surprise, it's still for sale.

I'm not saying this car doesn't have genuine mileage on it but it sure as hell hasn't aged well for something that averaged about 40 miles a week.

bbbbb

What about private individuals with pcp contracts and mileage limits?
If you’re being charged 6c for every km, then every 10k = €600

LillySV

All the small dealers at it, I’m seeing car transporter lorries carrying full loads of crashed/damaged uk reg cars into Galway the whole time.... I’m including a link to a recent case in Galway where dealer done for it ...but as i actually seen another truck yesterday, there’s clearly more than him at it!

https://www.ccpc.ie/business/galway-car-trader-receives-4-month-suspended-sentence/

Shefwedfan

LillySV wrote: »

All the small dealers at it, I’m seeing car transporter lorries carrying full loads of crashed/damaged uk reg cars into Galway the whole time.... I’m including a link to a recent case in Galway where dealer done for it ...but as i actually seen another truck yesterday, there’s clearly more than him at it!

https://www.ccpc.ie/business/galway-car-trader-receives-4-month-suspended-sentence/

It's not just Galway, it is well known that any dealer on longmile road/Naas road has every single car clocked to last.....out around the airport as well now is getting a nice little reputation


Go to any county in Ireland, ask around and they will point out all the "dealers" who are at it.....

LillySV

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's not just Galway, it is well known that any dealer on longmile road/Naas road has every single car clocked to last.....out around the airport as well now is getting a nice little reputation


Go to any county in Ireland, ask around and they will point out all the "dealers" who are at it.....

I’d say anyone wanting uk car needs to go across themselves and get it with FSH as buying it here,the dealers most likely brought in dirt to make a massive margin on it

Shefwedfan

LillySV wrote: »

I’d say anyone wanting uk car needs to go across themselves and get it with FSH as buying it here,the dealers most likely brought in dirt to make a massive margin on it

You have a few dealers who are good, so can't black mark them all.



majority as you say are buying s**t and then throwig it out into the market and the Irish customer is lapping it up.....

Littlehorny

Has it ever been proved that Jap imports are getting clocked on the way over? Wife has a Honda Insight and it has full Japanese service history but sure the paperwork for it could be from anywhere.

Atlantic Dawn

Littlehorny wrote: »

Has it ever been proved that Jap imports are getting clocked on the way over? Wife has a Honda Insight and it has full Japanese service history but sure the paperwork for it could be from anywhere.

You could ask to see the auction sheet, that would disclose the mileage at time of auction. No idea what controls are in place in Japan to prevent clocking prior to that, I'd imagine with it being such a low crime country that it would be rare.

Seth Brundle

Littlehorny wrote: »

Has it ever been proved that Jap imports are getting clocked on the way over? Wife has a Honda Insight and it has full Japanese service history but sure the paperwork for it could be from anywhere.

I had an 2003 E39 525i that I bought in 2010 after it was imported from Japan. 16000km on the clock.
Verified by BMW (and I managed to get the full service history from Murphy & Gunn).

Point is that you need to get it inspected properly if you're unsure

Just do the checks. It's easy and not expensive.

Shefwedfan

It would be interesting if you added a poll to this thread, anonymous to see who has bought a clocked car. I bet you would be in the high 90% saying they never bought a clocked car

Maybe do on a seperate thread, it would be interesting if people are truthful what the results would be,.....

Mods???

mickdw

Checking UK reg for sale on donedeal against the mot checker site can almost be a sport.

Charles Babbage

In relation to the imports, do the VRT people not require the mileage?
This should open up the possibility of throwing the book at these chancers for some sort of tax fraud.

Shefwedfan

Charles Babbage wrote: »

In relation to the imports, do the VRT people not require the mileage?
This should open up the possibility of throwing the book at these chancers for some sort of tax fraud.

Higher mileage for VRT reduces the VRT


Shave 100k off it and advertise in Ireland and you make money on both sides....No idea how exactly it is done but it is been done all the time....

MrMusician18

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It would be interesting if you added a poll to this thread, anonymous to see who has bought a clocked car. I bet you would be in the high 90% saying they never bought a clocked car

Maybe do on a seperate thread, it would be interesting if people are truthful what the results would be,.....

Mods???

I'd say 90% of people who've bought a clocked car don't know it's clocked

And if they had, I doubt they'd want to know

zurbfoundation

bbbbb wrote: »

What about private individuals with pcp contracts and mileage limits?
If you’re being charged 6c for every km, then every 10k = €600

excelent point

italodisco

Buying private in the UK is too risky, nearly all adverts I called recently off auto trader UK based either hung up or got very edgy and defensive when I mentioned having an Audi mechanic look over it.

Same story here buying privately, especially off Eastern European lads.

Big no no

CrankyHaus

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I would think there is not much 'lee-way' when it comes to clocking a car nowadays,.so I would assume it's not as common or as profitable as it was before the nct. Mileage is noted and available for all to see....

NCT is only required for cars 4 years or older. Mileage accumulated before that can and will be clocked off, particularly if the vehicle was driven a lot (rental or company lease) or someone exceeded their PCP mileage limits.


The legal situation, where these services can be freely advertised and convictions are brought under the consumer protection act with 6 month max sentence, does little to prevent the practice.

Auguste Comte

Do most modern cars not record the milage on the ECU, can this be changed easily by some cowboy with a laptop and obd cable?

W123-80's

Seems to be a fairly common issue so, but with the usual due diligence it should be relatively easy avoid, no?
Especially on newer, more expensive cars. If there is no verifiable history with the car walk away?
Mid priced cars with high miles would seem to be the easiest to get away with. Something priced at around 7k with genuine mileage of say 200k miles. Shave 50/60k miles off it and it doesn't look to suspicious.
I haven's a clue to be honest!
Having read through all the responses I'm half convinced everything I have ever driven is clocked..!! My bubble is burst. Lol!

Seth Brundle

W123-80's wrote: »

Seems to be a fairly common issue so, but with the usual due diligence it should be relatively easy avoid, no?

Usual due diligence? Ha!
The vast majority of car buyers are happy parting with a large wad of cash and not adequately question the quality of what they're purchasing but are blinded by the cheap tax and running costs.

Squidgy Black

90% of Irish buyers don't know what a history check is, or the general things to look out for when buying a second hand car.

A family member of mine spent 8k recently on a used car, didn't bother to run a history check on it, car had been crashed and repaired, the spare wheel well was poorly paint matched and the mileage from when it was imported from the UK was significantly higher than it said now.

tossy

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Do most modern cars not record the milage on the ECU, can this be changed easily by some cowboy with a laptop and obd cable?

I don't know about other makes but anything VAG stores the mileage on the ECU and this can't be changed by Larry laptop - it can howver be checked by anyone with VCDS to verify if it matches the mileage on the ECU.

Large bottle small glass

I bought an Octavia in 2012 from a dealer in Waterford for 12000 or so. Car looked and drove perfectly, but dealer just looked like a cnut.

I did history check using an Irish site and it came up clean with 69k miles at 3 years old. It was a UK car still on UK plates. I needed a car in a hurry and bought it looking like car was sitting idle for 6 months; it had fsh history and it just seemed to be sitting ide for 6 months before purchase.

I paid VRT the following Monday. The 6 month thing, and seller being a prick lead me to do a UK check and the 15,000 mileage discrepancy showed up.

Long story short, he paid the VRT back to me in cash (about 2k ish) in order to stop me suing him.

Still have car, or my wife does. The only BXE engine in the world with 230k miles on it and its still perfect!

millington

It's difficult now on UK cars with free access to the MOT history, although some people still do it and I have caught a lot out myself by doing a 30 second check. Irish cars however, are constantly getting done. I see multiple a week for sale from the same few people, cars that I have seen with double the mileage and they are selling like hotcakes. Fake service histories included a lot of the time.

rex-x

tossy wrote: »

I don't know about other makes but anything VAG stores the mileage on the ECU and this can't be changed by Larry laptop - it can howver be checked by anyone with VCDS to verify if it matches the mileage on the ECU.

Its not that hard to change the value stored in the ECU for Larry Laptop on vag group cars, certainly not as hard as it should be I actually have the tools to do it but they serve other purposes too

fryup

millington wrote: »

It's difficult now on UK cars with free access to the MOT history, although some people still do it and I have caught a lot out myself by doing a 30 second check. Irish cars however, are constantly getting done. I see multiple a week for sale from the same few people, cars that I have seen with double the mileage and they are selling like hotcakes. Fake service histories included a lot of the time.

but i thought the NCT stamps this out...or is it being done on cars not yet nct'd?? (under 4 years old)

mickdw

The shiny new car blinds a lot of people.
I've seen many many sensible people, even those who have often spoken of history checks, clocking etc suddenly see a car at the local used car dealer and when they find out he is offering a good price on their trade in and that he is pricing the new car quite keenly, all sense goes out the window. Suddenly they can get into this new car with minimum hassle, no dealing with private sales on donedeal etc and they don't really want to know anything of the cars past. It's there in front of of them, it looks the part, it guaranteed for 6 months so they are buying it and no checks will be done as if they are honest they don't want to find out the truth as that would make the dream car go away.

wassie

This is a really eye-opening thread for me. Makes me think its going to be tough enough when I go to sell each of my 2 imports when its time to upgrade. Peace of mind thatI did all the checks before buying and retained as much original documentation as I could so that should help when I do advertise.

at9qu5vp0wcix7

On UK imports could you not just run the English reg on the MOT website and find out what mileage it had at the various intervals??

Henry Ford III

Aubree Stocky Trend wrote: »

On UK imports could you not just run the English reg on the MOT website and find out what mileage it had at the various intervals??

Hpi check it

Jamemid

I sold a car not too long ago. Up on done deal now with a lot less mileage on it.

Philb76

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Aubree Stocky Trend wrote: »

On UK imports could you not just run the English reg on the MOT website and find out what mileage it had at the various intervals??

Hpi check it

Hpi doesn't always give mileage happened to a car for the missus we bought in the North rang the mot centre it was tested at

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Hpi check it

Did a HPI check on a NI car today and no mileage info.

The odd thing is that while it says it has an MOT, MOT history cannot be located even though its a 2013. Is this a common thing for NI cars? Never encountered this on mainland UK cars which always have access to past MOT's.

bazz26

NI MOT system is different to the rest of the UK and that data is not available to most of the history check websites afaik.

Did you ring the garages who stamped the service history?

newmember2

MOT history isn't really an indicator either unless there's an obvious mileage discrepancy. There's nothing stopping someone driving a car 15k miles a year in the UK and rewinding the clock by 12k miles before MOT each year - you then have a car showing a mileage history of 9k miles over 3 years where in reality the car has done 45k.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^

i presume the same carry on over here with the nct?

Peter T

I heard of 1 car recently sold with 270k on the clock and it turned up online a few weeks later with 40 or 50k less. Fresh nct too so will never be caught unless the mileage is less or suspiciously close to what was on it for the previous test. So clocking is still a thing

Zak Flaps

I need to buy a car soon. Reading this thread makes it sound like nobody can be trusted!!