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Italy vs Ireland match thread, 24-2-2019.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Didn’t realize Sheedy was IQ, another outhalf for Munster maybe.


    Parents Irish, born in Cardiff. Played under age for Wales, ended up going to one of the English rugby schools. He played underage 7s for Ireland. His name came up because he refused to play underage for Wales against another country who nominated their underage age team as their 2nd team and which would have tied him to Wales.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    jm08 wrote: »
    Parents Irish, born in Cardiff. Played under age for Wales, ended up going to one of the English rugby schools. He played underage 7s for Ireland. His name came up because he refused to play underage for Wales against another country who nominated their underage age team as their 2nd team and which would have tied him to Wales.


    Yes, I always thought Ulster should have tried to tempt him. Instead they went for a guy from Bath junior 5ths.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    kuang1 wrote: »
    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.
    .

    I think it was SOB who got rag dolled by Tibaldi at the ruck where he stole the ball from Murray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Yes, I always thought Ulster should have tried to tempt him. Instead they went for a guy from Bath junior 5ths.

    To paraphrase Darren Cave, I'm not sure his face would fit in Belfast. His Twitter profile had the phrase "Tiocfaidh ár lá" on it for a long time. Hopefully he's copped on/grown up a bit since then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭mangobob


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What exactly did people expect POM to say? Italy are s**t and we shoul do of hammered that....this is a disaster....


    That would be an awful insult to Italy for one....


    Also what was Joe going to say, "he lads you see that 80 mins of s**t out there, phew that crap is over"


    That is left for them to discuss in house. They have 2 weeks to work on it....let see what comes against France....


    At the end of the day we have lost 1 game. Beaten 2 teams in the top 10 in World, one by bonus point and the other we should have beaten by bonus point. If we had lost 3 on the bounce then I would be concerned

    Ah come on now, I am not suggesting that anyone is expecting POM to publicly ridicule and disparage Italy. What I was expecting was him to acknowledge the reality - that Ireland were extremely poor and that level of performance is completely unacceptable. You can tell the truth about your performance without demeaning your opposition. Instead we got a comment along the lines of "no I'm happy with that and I am proud of how the team performed today". At best this is disingenuous. At worst its delusional, and if that's what he really thinks we should all be very worried indeed. Then he doubled down on it at the presser when asked about whether there were serious issues that needed addressing and he basically just said no we're grand. A few tweaks is all we need. That's one thing that was always refreshing about someone like ROG - he told the unvarnished truth instead of peddling cliches and canned lines.

    It also hasn't been 80 mins of sh*t, its been 240. We are so far off where we should be at this point in the cycle its alarming. We were extremely flat and disappointing at home against an admittedly rejuvenated England. Its not the defeat but the manner of it that was worrying. If you cannot get up for England in Dublin then something is wrong. We were very underwhelming against a Scottish team that couldn't bless itself without making a mistake and had more than enough chances to beat us. We were dire against an injury depleted Italian team that haven't won a 6 nations game since 2015 and just set a new tournament record for consecutive defeats. Suggesting that beating Italy is some kind of laudable achievement because they are a "top 10" opposition is more than a little disingenuous. If anything, that just shows how little depth there is in rugby globally.

    As you say they have 2 more weeks to work on it. If we win our last two games, then we can say we have turned it around. But if don't improve dramatically, and I do mean dramatically, then Wales will absolutely humiliate us in Cardiff. It will be a bloodbath. If we serve up that kind of dross again in two weeks I would fancy France to turn us over too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    I think it was SOB who got rag dolled by Tibaldi at the ruck where he stole the ball from Murray.

    It it's the one in the first half that led to the try, it was Chris Farrell. Tebaldi went in to poach, Farrell tried to clean him out (from the side) but didn't move him. Tebaldi then released and threw Farrell back the wrong side of the ruck before ripping Murray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I think I saw SOB take a piss during the anthems


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    I think I saw SOB take a piss during the anthems

    .. something something irelands call of nature......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    mangobob wrote: »
    Ah come on now, I am not suggesting that anyone is expecting POM to publicly ridicule and disparage Italy. What I was expecting was him to acknowledge the reality - that Ireland were extremely poor and that level of performance is completely unacceptable. You can tell the truth about your performance without demeaning your opposition. Instead we got a comment along the lines of "no I'm happy with that and I am proud of how the team performed today". At best this is disingenuous. At worst its delusional, and if that's what he really thinks we should all be very worried indeed. Then he doubled down on it at the presser when asked about whether there were serious issues that needed addressing and he basically just said no we're grand. A few tweaks is all we need. That's one thing that was always refreshing about someone like ROG - he told the unvarnished truth instead of peddling cliches and canned lines.


    Different time when ROG was playing....in those days you could walk up to Lansdowne for game and you could get a ticket


    The players are under more and more focus. They are celebrities, take a look at this forum. You have posters on here calling them nicknames and saying they feel like they know them??? then other posters saying that their personal life should be an open discussion because they play rugby.....


    That is the huge difference, any sort of one liner and it is splashed all over the press the next day. Not the whole interview, just 1 line. So yes expect every interview to be as mundane as possible because if it isn't then they get crucified on TV, press, radio and of course these forums....


    Like Sexton showing a bit of annoyance walking off the pitch....up roar from a load of people, trying to get the boot in when he isnt playing well.....


    Rugby is huge successful, with that goes the player next door philosophy...go back 5 years ago and you would meet a load of players around D4 during the week and they would chat. Now you meet those same players and they are guarded.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,010 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    SOB is not playing well because he has 2 people on him and everytime he receives the ball he is standing still....once he got the ball he got nailed by 2 players....tough and all SOB is he isn't a bloody superman

    Did he once receive the ball yesterday running onto it?

    Everything I seen yesterday was an issue because the ball was so bloody slow

    Did anyone receive the ball running onto it?

    In all of our matches this year it just seemed like we were shipping the ball on to the next guy who was also standing still and pretty flat, inviting the last guy to get creamed by a drift defence.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Christy42


    mangobob wrote: »
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What exactly did people expect POM to say? Italy are s**t and we shoul do of hammered that....this is a disaster....


    That would be an awful insult to Italy for one....


    Also what was Joe going to say, "he lads you see that 80 mins of s**t out there, phew that crap is over"


    That is left for them to discuss in house. They have 2 weeks to work on it....let see what comes against France....


    At the end of the day we have lost 1 game. Beaten 2 teams in the top 10 in World, one by bonus point and the other we should have beaten by bonus point. If we had lost 3 on the bounce then I would be concerned

    Ah come on now, I am not suggesting that anyone is expecting POM to publicly ridicule and disparage Italy. What I was expecting was him to acknowledge the reality - that Ireland were extremely poor and that level of performance is completely unacceptable. You can tell the truth about your performance without demeaning your opposition. Instead we got a comment along the lines of "no I'm happy with that and I am proud of how the team performed today". At best this is disingenuous. At worst its delusional, and if that's what he really thinks we should all be very worried indeed. Then he doubled down on it at the presser when asked about whether there were serious issues that needed addressing and he basically just said no we're grand. A few tweaks is all we need. That's one thing that was always refreshing about someone like ROG - he told the unvarnished truth instead of peddling cliches and canned lines.

    It also hasn't been 80 mins of sh*t, its been 240. We are so far off where we should be at this point in the cycle its alarming. We were extremely flat and disappointing at home against an admittedly rejuvenated England. Its not the defeat but the manner of it that was worrying. If you cannot get up for England in Dublin then something is wrong. We were very underwhelming against a Scottish team that couldn't bless itself without making a mistake and had more than enough chances to beat us. We were dire against an injury depleted Italian team that haven't won a 6 nations game since 2015 and just set a new tournament record for consecutive defeats. Suggesting that beating Italy is some kind of laudable achievement because they are a "top 10" opposition is more than a little disingenuous. If anything, that just shows how little depth there is in rugby globally.

    As you say they have 2 more weeks to work on it. If we win our last two games, then we can say we have turned it around. But if don't improve dramatically, and I do mean dramatically, then Wales will absolutely humiliate us in Cardiff. It will be a bloodbath. If we serve up that kind of dross again in two weeks I would fancy France to turn us over too.
    It was conferences right after the game. He may prefer to keep these things in house. Paying too much attention to pressers is I'll advised. As is getting annoyed by the comments.

    Honestly we are not far off. These players are the same world beaters as last year, they just need to get back to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    Buer wrote: »
    It it's the one in the first half that led to the try, it was Chris Farrell. Tebaldi went in to poach, Farrell tried to clean him out (from the side) but didn't move him. Tebaldi then released and threw Farrell back the wrong side of the ruck before ripping Murray.

    I think SOB missed the tackle immediately after Murray had the ball ripped from him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,174 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    kuang1 wrote: »
    I think SOB missed the tackle immediately after Murray had the ball ripped from him.

    Ah, correct. Just slid right down him and fell off. Should be bread and butter for an openside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Did anyone receive the ball running onto it?

    In all of our matches this year it just seemed like we were shipping the ball on to the next guy who was also standing still and pretty flat, inviting the last guy to get creamed by a drift defence.

    I've never coached or even played rugby. But I imagine there might be some terminology for what's happening a lot.
    Not only is the receiver static when he gets the ball. He'll also often take (or have to take?) a little leap in the air as the ball arrives. So it's actually even worse than a standing start. He has to wait to land (fraction of a second extra, granted) before achieving standing-start-status!

    A timing issue or a passing issue? Both?

    Either way really bad to see it so regularly this 6n from us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Very worrying performance yesterday. We really need to pull a performance out against the French. They are a mess defensively and their discipline is terrible so we should beat them easily, but you would worry about the likes of Pernaud, Ramos and Dupont against our wide defense.

    If McGrath or Marmion were fit I would drop Murray in a heartbeat. I think Cooney is a little behind them both, but I'd probably still be inclined to go with him against France.

    Sexton not playing well either and his attitude when he came off yesterday was appalling. Once again showing he is not captain material imo. If fit, there would be an argument for Carbery v France also. For a couple of reasons.

    A lot of players need a kick up the **** to be honest.

    Cannot wait to get Ringrose and Henshaw back in the centres. The gap from Ringrose in particular to our next best 13 is huge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Did anyone receive the ball running onto it?

    In all of our matches this year it just seemed like we were shipping the ball on to the next guy who was also standing still and pretty flat, inviting the last guy to get creamed by a drift defence.


    I just reference SOB because he was the one picked out in previous post


    In all our games this year we are standing still


    It is the first time I have seen Ryan going backwards as well....so it is not just SOB.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,232 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Very worrying performance yesterday. We really need to pull a performance out against the French. They are a mess defensively and their discipline is terrible so we should beat them easily, but you would worry about the likes of Pernaud, Ramos and Dupont against our wide defense.

    The French should not be taken for granted. They're just as likely to show up and put in a grand stand performance as they are to turn up and sh1t the bed for the whole game.

    In this 6 nations, they have had 3 games, 1 good performance, one terrible performance, and one game where they played well for the first half and awfully for the 2nd.

    We're playing in Dublin, all the pressure is on us to perform. If they get a good start, we could be looking at a long day in 2 weeks time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭mangobob


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Different time when ROG was playing....in those days you could walk up to Lansdowne for game and you could get a ticket


    The players are under more and more focus. They are celebrities, take a look at this forum. You have posters on here calling them nicknames and saying they feel like they know them??? then other posters saying that their personal life should be an open discussion because they play rugby.....


    That is the huge difference, any sort of one liner and it is splashed all over the press the next day. Not the whole interview, just 1 line. So yes expect every interview to be as mundane as possible because if it isn't then they get crucified on TV, press, radio and of course these forums....


    Like Sexton showing a bit of annoyance walking off the pitch....up roar from a load of people, trying to get the boot in when he isnt playing well.....


    Rugby is huge successful, with that goes the player next door philosophy...go back 5 years ago and you would meet a load of players around D4 during the week and they would chat. Now you meet those same players and they are guarded.....

    Christy42 wrote: »
    It was conferences right after the game. He may prefer to keep these things in house. Paying too much attention to pressers is I'll advised. As is getting annoyed by the comments.


    I understand everything you guys are saying and it makes sense of course. I guess I just wanted some reassurance that they realise there are real problems and that the level they are currently at is not nearly good enough to secure that semi final place, rather than just gloss over it all and pretend everything is rosy. The world and its dog can see that we are playing far below the levels we need to be at. But I'm sure you're right that regardless of what they feed the media they will know exactly whats wrong and be laser focused on trying to right the ship over the next few weeks.

    Honestly we are not far off. These players are the same world beaters as last year, they just need to get back to it.

    I really hope this is the case and that I am just being a drama queen. I guess being an Irish rugby fan since the 80's has left me with plenty of scars and disappointments, especially in the World Cup. I'm desperate to see them break the hoodoo this time. I would happily trade a wooden spoon now for a semi final berth. Im not worried by the error count or inaccuracies. Those are easily fixed. My faith in Joe remains unshaken too, but the performance trajectories of a couple of our key players and leaders is a real concern for me. You cant just switch that on or off. It will take time to get them back to where they need to be and I just hope we have enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,903 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Very worrying performance yesterday. We really need to pull a performance out against the French. They are a mess defensively and their discipline is terrible so we should beat them easily, but you would worry about the likes of Pernaud, Ramos and Dupont against our wide defense.

    If McGrath or Marmion were fit I would drop Murray in a heartbeat. I think Cooney is a little behind them both, but I'd probably still be inclined to go with him against France.

    Sexton not playing well either and his attitude when he came off yesterday was appalling. Once again showing he is not captain material imo. If fit, there would be an argument for Carbery v France also. For a couple of reasons.

    A lot of players need a kick up the **** to be honest.

    Cannot wait to get Ringrose and Henshaw back in the centres. The gap from Ringrose in particular to our next best 13 is huge.

    Agree with a lot of what you say but I feel you're wrong about the centres. I'd be happy with any combination of Aki/Henshaw and Ringrose/Farrell. I'd be inclined to go Aki and Ringrose as first choice at this stage and Farrell as a bench option. He had a good game yesterday alternating between 12 and 13.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Christy42


    mangobob wrote: »
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Different time when ROG was playing....in those days you could walk up to Lansdowne for game and you could get a ticket


    The players are under more and more focus. They are celebrities, take a look at this forum. You have posters on here calling them nicknames and saying they feel like they know them??? then other posters saying that their personal life should be an open discussion because they play rugby.....


    That is the huge difference, any sort of one liner and it is splashed all over the press the next day. Not the whole interview, just 1 line. So yes expect every interview to be as mundane as possible because if it isn't then they get crucified on TV, press, radio and of course these forums....


    Like Sexton showing a bit of annoyance walking off the pitch....up roar from a load of people, trying to get the boot in when he isnt playing well.....


    Rugby is huge successful, with that goes the player next door philosophy...go back 5 years ago and you would meet a load of players around D4 during the week and they would chat. Now you meet those same players and they are guarded.....

    Christy42 wrote: »
    It was conferences right after the game. He may prefer to keep these things in house. Paying too much attention to pressers is I'll advised. As is getting annoyed by the comments.


    I understand everything you guys are saying and it makes sense of course. I guess I just wanted some reassurance that they realise there are real problems and that the level they are currently at is not nearly good enough to secure that semi final place, rather than just gloss over it all and pretend everything is rosy. The world and its dog can see that we are playing far below the levels we need to be at. But I'm sure you're right that regardless of what they feed the media they will know exactly whats wrong and be laser focused on trying to right the ship over the next few weeks.

    Honestly we are not far off. These players are the same world beaters as last year, they just need to get back to it.

    I really hope this is the case and that I am just being a drama queen. I guess being an Irish rugby fan since the 80's has left me with plenty of scars and disappointments, especially in the World Cup. I'm desperate to see them break the hoodoo this time. I would happily trade a wooden spoon now for a semi final berth. Im not worried by the error count or inaccuracies. Those are easily fixed. My faith in Joe remains unshaken too, but the performance trajectories of a couple of our key players and leaders is a real concern for me. You cant just switch that on or off. It will take time to get them back to where they need to be and I just hope we have enough.
    I don't know if they can break the hoodoo. They certainly picked a bad year to start underperforming but I guarantee they know they are not performing. Stockdale mentioned it. Sexton and Murray were both obviously fuming. Even Earls after his offload to Stockdale didn't come off when he made that break was obviously dejected. Plus if Sexton knows then I imagine everyone knows. Not the quietest person.

    I reckon POM was terrified of insulting Italy and just overcompensated.

    I can also see a not far off argument. A lot of small costly mistakes instead of structural ones or a lack of ability. Whether they get fixed is another issue. The lack of energy is also weird. I can't imagine the lack of line speed is tactical or that the not running onto the ball is either. Not sure what is up with that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23 M50Jct15


    Anyway folks...the acid tests are just ahead; Wales and France


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,810 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    M50Jct15 wrote: »
    Anyway folks...the acid tests are just ahead; Wales and France

    France and Wales..to be pedantic. :)


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