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Italy vs Ireland match thread, 24-2-2019.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭reg114


    Joe Schmidt's Ireland has always been a slow starter in tournaments and been prone to dramatic slumps at inopportune times, such as the pre-worldcup games and the defeat to Argentina. Yes we are still capable of beating anyone in a one off game but we still fall short when it comes to consistency especially when missing some players. Devin Toners loss from the lineout has been huge. Bests absence yesterday again from the lineout was massive. How Sean Cronin has managed to amass so many caps for Leinster and Ireland and still not manage to throw a dart accurately is a mystery to me, he was personally responsible for one of the Italian tries yesterday. Roux is not international standard and this will be unpopular but neither is Sean O Brien anymore. His career has been too blighted by injury in recent years and his ferocity of old has gone. He was anonymous yesterday. Kearney again had a below par performance. In fact if you wanted an example of a quality full back performance the welsh number 15 gave a scintillating display the previous day. Kearney's one strength is under the high ball, if you take that away from his game, hes a very average full back in my opinion, he lacks any ability to pass the ball and possesses an uncanny instinct when it comes to running up blind alleys with no support.

    The italians looked exciting with the ball in hand, something we rarely do. The speed with which they whipped the ball out wide, the offloading and the lines of attack were a joy to behold. Irish invention in attack is positively muted by comparison. Jacob Stockdale seems to be the only player we have who consistently looks to create something out of nothing. He possesses a hunger and an instinct to attack the line, very few other irish players offer similar.

    Did Sexton need to play yesterday ? I dont think so. Same could be said of Murray, both men look bereft of ideas and quite frankly rudderless. Ringrose , Henshaw, Ryan, Toner, Best, Stander were all missed but surely their replacements must be able to measure up in a squad game.

    We had a great 12 months last year, but for a team to remain on top it has to find the hunger and intensity every time it takes to the pitch. You cant just rely on processes , you have to want to win more than the opposition and this simply has not been the case. England wanted to win more than us after finishing 5th last season. They had the desire, we did not and we havent found that desire again. This desire to win every time is the one attribute that has always impressed me about the All Blacks, its just in their DNA. Ireland seem to need to have a gun held to their heads to find the motivation sometimes, quite why this is the case is beyond me.

    We have two opportunities to get back on track in this tournament against France at home and away to Wales. If we can manage to play those games with the same intensity and desire that brought that victory over the All Blacks then this tournament wont have been a complete failure.

    The world cup is still 6 months away so i would rather a slump now than then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    reg114 wrote: »
    Joe Schmidt's Ireland has always been a slow starter in tournaments and been prone to dramatic slumps at inopportune times, such as the pre-worldcup games and the defeat to Argentina. Yes we are still capable of beating anyone in a one off game but we still fall short when it comes to consistency especially when missing some players. Devin Toners loss from the lineout has been huge. Bests absence yesterday again from the lineout was massive. How Sean Cronin has managed to amass so many caps for Leinster and Ireland and still not manage to throw a dart accurately is a mystery to me, he was personally responsible for one of the Italian tries yesterday. Roux is not international standard and this will be unpopular but neither is Sean O Brien anymore. His career has been too blighted by injury in recent years and his ferocity of old has gone. He was anonymous yesterday. Kearney again had a below par performance. In fact if you wanted an example of a quality full back performance the welsh number 15 gave a scintillating display the previous day. Kearney's one strength is under the high ball, if you take that away from his game, hes a very average full back in my opinion, he lacks any ability to pass the ball and possesses an uncanny instinct when it comes to running up blind alleys with no support.

    The italians looked exciting with the ball in hand, something we rarely do. The speed with which they whipped the ball out wide, the offloading and the lines of attack were a joy to behold. Irish invention in attack is positively muted by comparison. Jacob Stockdale seems to be the only player we have who consistently looks to create something out of nothing. He possesses a hunger and an instinct to attack the line, very few other irish players offer similar.

    Did Sexton need to play yesterday ? I dont think so. Same could be said of Murray, both men look bereft of ideas and quite frankly rudderless. Ringrose , Henshaw, Ryan, Toner, Best, Stander were all missed but surely their replacements must be able to measure up in a squad game.

    We had a great 12 months last year, but for a team to remain on top it has to find the hunger and intensity every time it takes to the pitch. You cant just rely on processes , you have to want to win more than the opposition and this simply has not been the case. England wanted to win more than us after finishing 5th last season. They had the desire, we did not and we havent found that desire again. This desire to win every time is the one attribute that has always impressed me about the All Blacks, its just in their DNA. Ireland seem to need to have a gun held to their heads to find the motivation sometimes, quite why this is the case is beyond me.

    We have two opportunities to get back on track in this tournament against France at home and away to Wales. If we can manage to play those games with the same intensity and desire that brought that victory over the All Blacks then this tournament wont have been a complete failure.

    The world cup is still 6 months away so i would rather a slump now than then.

    I think it may be a case of aiming beyond the target with this team. There is a sense that they are not focused on this 6 Nations but something beyond.
    May or may not be a good thing.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Italy causing all kinds of problems at home against Wales and then suggests to me that they are more competitive this tournament. Benetton hammering Dragons on the same weekend also indicative of the direction things are going. They really are waiting in the tall grass for France at this stage.

    Their line speed and accuracy at the breakdown in combination with our increasingly predictable play ground the game to a halt. It was a great day to be an Italian forward, the quality of Irish passing was poor, we were playing flat against the line but with zero inventiveness and Italy were lining us up all day and winning collisions. It fed into their energy levels all game and kept the crowd as a factor.

    Sexton really needed to vary it up but couldn't take control of the game and was very one dimensional for his standards. Part of it was down to continual poor quality ball from Murray who was far too slow getting the ball away from the breakdown, inviting further disruption from Italy. I couldn't believe Murray didn't adapt to the ref nor acknowledge the pressure Italy were applying at the ruck and it really cost us.

    Still, we had plenty of big carriers available to the first receiver and it kept Italy flat - but we never exploited the space this left elsewhere and effectively handed most of the dominant moments of the game to them.

    Our disjointed midfield was problematic but our decision making off 9 and 10 were the foundation of that poor performance and much of the inaccuracy that came later. We've a few key men in poor form and it's sucking the life out of the squad. Joe seems keen to allow lads to play themselves back into confidence but in the meantime we are getting caught in dog fight after dog fight and the attrition is steadily depleting our playing numbers.

    We really need to click against France because Wales will not give us any opportunity to find form and if we are as disjointed in Cardiff as we were in Rome we'll be humiliated 6 months out from the World cup.

    Time for Joe to earn his crust and plot a course out of this rut. Much will come down to the players also but I think at this stage Joe will sacrifice results if he can get his key on field decision makers back on track.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    TimHorton wrote: »
    Good Form with a 3rd Rate Team , Madigan should have been on the bench today , He earns 5 times what Carty does because he is a better player ,

    You mean the Madigan who is struggling to get his game at a team that are second from bottom of the premiership?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    reg114 wrote: »

    Did Sexton need to play yesterday ? I dont think so. Same could be said of Murray, both men look bereft of ideas and quite frankly rudderless.

    Yes.

    No disrespect to either Carty or Cooney but there was far, far more value in giving Sexton and Murray more time on the pitch than playing either of the replacements.

    If Carbery or Marmion had been available, maybe that would have been a different question.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,193 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    stephen_n wrote: »
    You mean the Madigan who is struggling to get his game at a team that are second from bottom of the premiership?

    It's tiring when people repeatedly call on guys to be called up over and over again when they obviously haven't been actually watching them.

    Madigan had a poor showing last weekend and was dropped for this week against Harlequins. Many Bristol fans have been calling for Callum Sheedy to be their first choice outhalf for the next few games.

    On a completely different note, there's a guy who is Irish qualified and still only 23. He had a bit of undeserved hype around him when he first came on the scene but seems to have developed a bit to the point where he could be a viable signing for a province.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Buer wrote: »
    It's tiring when people repeatedly call on guys to be called up over and over again when they obviously haven't been actually watching them.

    Madigan had a poor showing last weekend and was dropped for this week against Harlequins. Many Bristol fans have been calling for Callum Sheedy to be their first choice outhalf for the next few games.

    On a completely different note, there's a guy who is Irish qualified and still only 23. He had a bit of undeserved hype around him when he first came on the scene but seems to have developed a bit to the point where he could be a viable signing for a province.

    Didn’t realize Sheedy was IQ, another outhalf for Munster maybe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    We have what.. 6? more games to sort this mess out.. after so long in charge and a WC around the corner I hope Joe has an ace up his sleeve that he is saving.

    For all the talk of strength in depth we are still totally dependant on best, toner, sexton, murray and Kearney. One or more them ****s the bed or gets injured and wc goes down the drain.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    twinytwo wrote: »

    For all the talk of strength in depth we are still totally dependant on best, toner, sexton, murray and Kearney. One or more them ****s the bed or gets injured and wc goes down the drain.


    To be fair 1 regular front row, missing 2nd rows, and was the "perfect" match to reassess SOB. So the entire pack was a mishmash.

    9/10 were indeed not at all firing but couple the pack with a very match unaware Murray...
    Aki went off early, and we have players not available in the backs also.

    This was not a full strength team, no matter what some posters want to say.

    Strength in depth does not mean that you can gut a team and expect it to function as well as ever. It means that you can lose one or two players (no matter the position) and still function to that level, we're down several.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    To be fair 1 regular front row, missing 2nd rows, and was the "perfect" match to reassess SOB. So the entire pack was a mishmash.

    9/10 were indeed not at all firing but couple the pack with a very match unaware Murray...
    Aki went off early, and we have players not available in the backs also.

    This was not a full strength team, no matter what some posters want to say.

    Strength in depth does not mean that you can gut a team and expect it to function as well as ever. It means that you can lose one or two players (no matter the position) and still function to that level, we're down several.
    The fact is that some of these players were being given an opportunity to show they should be part of the 6N and the RWC. None of them took it. That can't all be blamed on 9/10 not firing, which is a huge concern.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    9/10 not firing is a huge concern. The fact is that some of these players were being given an opportunity to show they should be part of the 6N and the RWC. None of them did.

    Mainly true but there is still no validity in saying that we do not have strength in depth. We do.

    9 and 10 not firing. So we replace them with Carbs and Marm... Oh wait another pair injured. We are not in a position to make real corrective actions and still came away with a bonus point victory.
    Lineout not working, sh1te we're already on our back up pair.
    Centres not mashing, loads of injuries there.
    No team can take that many hits and be expected to blow teams away.

    We need some perspective. Yes there are causes for alarm, yes some players are not putting their hand up, yes we are looking predictable (just like the last WC to be fair), BUT let's not go mental with the criticism either.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,202 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    a couple of stats that i think are interesting from yesterday.....

    we kicked 13 times..... compare that to 24 against scotland and 31 against england.
    why did we refuse to kick the ball so much?
    we played the majority of the game with 4 players who are able contesters in the air.... yet we didnt test their wings at all.
    why didnt we try to turn their defensive line with more tactical kicking?

    they made 14 clean breaks to our 5... it didnt help that our 9, 10, 12 and 13 missed 9 tackles between them.....

    their locks made 40 meters for 16 runs, ours made 16 meters from 15 runs.

    italy though to their credit have certainly showed some improvement in this competition......
    They have lost by less than 2 converted in each of their 3 games so far... for a points total of -34
    compared to last year when at this stage they were -85


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    reg114 wrote: »
    Joe Schmidt's Ireland has always been a slow starter in tournaments.....

    Apart from the Grand Slam year obviously.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Apart from the Grand Slam year obviously.

    Well in fairness, Paris!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,736 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Apart from the Grand Slam year obviously.

    Arguably we were slow out of the blocks last year too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.

    I can't help but wonder if the Munster Leinster game in Thomond has damaged some of the relationships within the squad.
    Sexton and Murray ****ing each other out of it during the England game, Sexton's public display of frustration yesterday, (although I assumed it was the referee at the time he was expressing annoyance about, I'm not sure now.) a 9/10 axis that's not clicking. Can it be all explained away by Murray's body not being back to full tilt yet?

    All conjecture on my part of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    kuang1 wrote: »
    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.

    I can't help but wonder if the Munster Leinster game in Thomond has damaged some of the relationships within the squad.
    Sexton and Murray ****ing each other out of it during the England game, Sexton's public display of frustration yesterday, (although I assumed it was the referee at the time he was expressing annoyance about, I'm not sure now.) a 9/10 axis that's not clicking. Can it be all explained away by Murray's body not being back to full tilt yet?

    All conjecture on my part of course.

    To be honest, I thought a few Leinster players were off the boil when they came back after the All Blacks. The Bath away game was really poor and while they slotted them away at home, there were still hairy moments.

    They weren't great in the interpros over Christmas either.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    Arguably we were slow out of the blocks last year too.

    Hardly matters as we won all the matches - a grand slam.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    troyzer wrote: »
    To be honest, I thought a few Leinster players were off the boil when they came back after the All Blacks. The Bath away game was really poor and while they slotted them away at home, there were still hairy moments.

    They weren't great in the interpros over Christmas either.

    I think at worst there might be a bunch of lads there who having won most of everything there was to win last season are now minding themselves a bit for the World Cup.

    I can't envisage it being anything too much more dramatic than that. Last year Leinster borderline embarrassed Munster in Thomond, if there wasn't bad blood after that I can't see why there would have been a big falling out this season.

    People are just playing poorly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    I think at worst there might be a bunch of lads there who having won most of everything there was to win last season are now minding themselves a bit for the World Cup.

    I can't envisage it being anything too much more dramatic than that. Last year Leinster borderline embarrassed Munster in Thomond, if there wasn't bad blood after that I can't see why there would have been a big falling out this season.

    People are just playing poorly.

    I agree, I don't think there's any bad blood. I'm just saying that I think there's been worrying signs of poor form for a while now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    kuang1 wrote: »
    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.

    I can't help but wonder if the Munster Leinster game in Thomond has damaged some of the relationships within the squad.
    Sexton and Murray ****ing each other out of it during the England game, Sexton's public display of frustration yesterday, (although I assumed it was the referee at the time he was expressing annoyance about, I'm not sure now.) a 9/10 axis that's not clicking. Can it be all explained away by Murray's body not being back to full tilt yet?

    All conjecture on my part of course.

    I think the SOB stuff is disingenuous, not a good game but still 3rd for metres run in the pack(after Kilcoyne and scannell), having played 60 minutes. Missed exactly one tackle (no pluralization required), threw exactly one bad pass to murray, one breakdown penalty, one penalty that was accidental offside from an earls knock on (there is nothing anyone can do to avoid those) and an important turnover in his 22. It's a bad day, not a complete meltdown as described above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    SOB is not playing well because he has 2 people on him and everytime he receives the ball he is standing still....once he got the ball he got nailed by 2 players....tough and all SOB is he isn't a bloody superman

    Did he once receive the ball yesterday running onto it?

    Everything I seen yesterday was an issue because the ball was so bloody slow


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    SOB is not playing well because he has 2 people on him and everytime he receives the ball he is standing still....once he got the ball he got nailed by 2 players....tough and all SOB is he isn't a bloody superman

    Did he once receive the ball yesterday running onto it?

    Everything I seen yesterday was an issue because the ball was so bloody slow

    This^

    Replace Murray and I think the entire team massively improves. He reminds me of Peyton Manning after he took that year out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭Christy42


    kuang1 wrote: »
    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.

    I can't help but wonder if the Munster Leinster game in Thomond has damaged some of the relationships within the squad.
    Sexton and Murray ****ing each other out of it during the England game, Sexton's public display of frustration yesterday, (although I assumed it was the referee at the time he was expressing annoyance about, I'm not sure now.) a 9/10 axis that's not clicking. Can it be all explained away by Murray's body not being back to full tilt yet?

    All conjecture on my part of course.
    The SOB has been talked about elsewhere but the division in camp one is also bull.

    You can't read anything into Sexton giving out. He does it a lot. Especially when things are going badly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭mangobob


    I watched much of that match through my fingers, not from nerves but despair at our sloppiness and inaccuracy. If it were the first game, I could have accepted it given our infuriating propensity to start slowly and get caught cold. I accept that injuries to key players have played a role and that our main play-makers are bang out of form. But we are more than half way through the tournament now and I am seeing very little improvement. If anything I feel we have regressed in some areas. While not a catastrophic performance, it was thoroughly depressing given both the level of opposition (an injury depleted Italian side) and where we are in the world cup cycle.

    Yet when I listened to POM's interview after the game his attitude contrasted fairly jarringly with my own, seeming to suggest that he was pretty happy and proud of how the team went and that we just need to fix a few small things for France. Ditto in the press conference afterwards. I didn't see Joe's after match interview, but in the post match presser he did seem a bit more critical and unhappy with the performance than the captain but generally appeared to regard it as a decent result and something to build on, rather than the worryingly crap performance it so patently was. That's the impression I got at any rate. Murray continued his deeply underwhelming streak and to my mind had a mare (at least in terms of his own prior standards), yet Joe was at pains to point out that much of his kicking was very good. Sexton had a very mixed bag and seems to be increasingly fragile. That's deeply worrying when you consider how dependent we are on him. I felt leadership was glaringly absent across the park. There was nobody who seemed willing or capable to grab the game by the scruff of the neck - amazing when you consider that this was one of our strengths until recently. The potency and guile of our back line looks vastly diminished without Ringrose. Our lineout seems to fall apart without Toner. SOB is a shadow of his former self and London Irish fans must be starting to suffer from buyers remorse. I could go on and on. We do have more depth than 4 years ago, but not as much as we once thought.

    So it begs the questions, are we over-reacting or are they being overly optimistic and blase? Or are those comments just for public consumption? I accept that sloppy errors can be cut out and accuracy improved, but I genuinely feel that our problems go much deeper than just that. I know a lot of people say that they would rather have the slump now than in the world cup. But that assumes that a. it really is just a temporary slump rather than something more systemic and b. that recovery is just a matter of time. Even if that's true, the next question is how much time? Englands form fell off a cliff and it took them about 18 months to recover. But we only have 2 meaningful games left and a handful of warm ups. Tempus fugit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    kuang1 wrote: »
    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.

    I can't help but wonder if the Munster Leinster game in Thomond has damaged some of the relationships within the squad.
    Sexton and Murray ****ing each other out of it during the England game, Sexton's public display of frustration yesterday, (although I assumed it was the referee at the time he was expressing annoyance about, I'm not sure now.) a 9/10 axis that's not clicking. Can it be all explained away by Murray's body not being back to full tilt yet?

    All conjecture on my part of course.


    This all leads back to one thing.....slow ball


    Sexton is getting nailed, like the other players are getting nailed becuase the ball is slow. I keep saying it....watch any 5 min segment when Ireland have the ball....they are all waiting....


    The Irish game is build on ruck's, this has been pointed out at nauseum by pundits. Rucks and fast ball...

    This does not work if we hit a ruck and then the defence has time to line out and wait while we decide to throw the ball out, when the ball comes out they nail the player and back we go....we are far far far far too slow.



    We have two choice
    1. Change Murray and see how it goes
    2. Change our game plan from depending on rucks and fast ball....


    Presonally, I love Murray, but I think option 1 is easier fix. Give Murray some rest, let him work up his fitness against some Pro14 team


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    mangobob wrote: »
    I watched much of that match through my fingers, not from nerves but despair at our sloppiness and inaccuracy. If it were the first game, I could have accepted it given our infuriating propensity to start slowly and get caught cold. I accept that injuries to key players have played a role and that our main play-makers are bang out of form. But we are more than half way through the tournament now and I am seeing very little improvement. If anything I feel we have regressed in some areas. While not a catastrophic performance, it was thoroughly depressing given both the level of opposition (an injury depleted Italian side) and where we are in the world cup cycle.

    Yet when I listened to POM's interview after the game his attitude contrasted fairly jarringly with my own, seeming to suggest that he was pretty happy and proud of how the team went and that we just need to fix a few small things for France. Ditto in the press conference afterwards. I didn't see Joe's after match interview, but in the post match presser he did seem a bit more critical and unhappy with the performance than the captain but generally appeared to regard it as a decent result and something to build on, rather than the worryingly crap performance it so patently was. That's the impression I got at any rate. Murray continued his deeply underwhelming streak and to my mind had a mare (at least in terms of his own prior standards), yet Joe was at pains to point out that much of his kicking was very good. Sexton had a very mixed bag and seems to be increasingly fragile. That's deeply worrying when you consider how dependent we are on him. I felt leadership was glaringly absent across the park. There was nobody who seemed willing or capable to grab the game by the scruff of the neck - amazing when you consider that this was one of our strengths until recently. The potency and guile of our back line looks vastly diminished without Ringrose. Our lineout seems to fall apart without Toner. SOB is a shadow of his former self and London Irish fans must be starting to suffer from buyers remorse. I could go on and on. We do have more depth than 4 years ago, but not as much as we once thought.

    So it begs the questions, are we over-reacting or are they being overly optimistic and blase? Or are those comments just for public consumption? I accept that sloppy errors can be cut out and accuracy improved, but I genuinely feel that our problems go much deeper than just that. I know a lot of people say that they would rather have the slump now than in the world cup. But that assumes that a. it really is just a temporary slump rather than something more systemic and b. that recovery is just a matter of time. Even if that's true, the next question is how much time? Englands form fell off a cliff and it took them about 18 months to recover. But we only have 2 meaningful games left and a handful of warm ups. Tempus fugit.


    What exactly did people expect POM to say? Italy are s**t and we shoul do of hammered that....this is a disaster....


    That would be an awful insult to Italy for one....


    Also what was Joe going to say, "he lads you see that 80 mins of s**t out there, phew that crap is over"


    That is left for them to discuss in house. They have 2 weeks to work on it....let see what comes against France....


    At the end of the day we have lost 1 game. Beaten 2 teams in the top 10 in World, one by bonus point and the other we should have beaten by bonus point. If we had lost 3 on the bounce then I would be concerned


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    It could all be part of a cunning plan by Joe to lull other teams into a sense of complacency when faced by Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    It could all be part of a cunning plan by Joe to lull other teams into a sense of complacency when faced by Ireland?


    I have Watsapp group of mates, all scattered over the World, this was the agreement after the game yesterday.....we are just messing with other teams heads :p


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    kuang1 wrote: »
    SOB was the biggest disappointment for me yesterday. An error strewn display. Really cringe stuff some of it, dropped balls, bad passes, missed tackles. I feel for the guy. He's dropped himself down the pecking order significantly now imo.

    I can't help but wonder if the Munster Leinster game in Thomond has damaged some of the relationships within the squad.
    Sexton and Murray ****ing each other out of it during the England game, Sexton's public display of frustration yesterday, (although I assumed it was the referee at the time he was expressing annoyance about, I'm not sure now.) a 9/10 axis that's not clicking. Can it be all explained away by Murray's body not being back to full tilt yet?

    All conjecture on my part of course.


    This all leads back to one thing.....slow ball


    Sexton is getting nailed, like the other players are getting nailed becuase the ball is slow. I keep saying it....watch any 5 min segment when Ireland have the ball....they are all waiting....


    The Irish game is build on ruck's, this has been pointed out at nauseum by pundits. Rucks and fast ball...

    This does not work if we hit a ruck and then the defence has time to line out and wait while we decide to throw the ball out, when the ball comes out they nail the player and back we go....we are far far far far too slow.



    We have two choice
    1. Change Murray and see how it goes
    2. Change our game plan from depending on rucks and fast ball....


    Presonally, I love Murray, but I think option 1 is easier fix. Give Murray some rest, let him work up his fitness against some Pro14 team

    It isn't. Our game is built around ball retention and speeding it up at the right points. Our ball retention was muck, we didn't drag the Italian defense out of position and we were frequently going backwards. Sticking in Cooney won't help with any of that. Option 1 is easy and pointless unless Marmion is ready for another performance like November.

    Murray's issues had more to do with decision making and awareness.


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