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Italy vs Ireland match thread, 24-2-2019.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    Cronin didn’t have his best day, it appeared to me that two balls were overthrown. He just doesn’t have the same impact in the tight as the big man. We need to keep him wrapped in cotton wool for the rest of the year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,880 ✭✭✭Christy42


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    ClanofLams wrote: »
    Nonsense. Easy for the two boys sitting in Dublin who have never attempted a challenge close to what COS is doing.

    100

    They talked out of both sides of their mouths re Joe and Conor
    Why? They are some way off the pace.l of other teams. They are on a record streak of losses.

    Today was a day everything went right for Italy and they still couldn't manage a bonus point loss. So many very basic errors every single game. Sure other teams have bad games but for Italy that is every game.

    He does seem to be involved in the grass roots and the club game which is improvement. That seems to be a different role and they should just stick him there as he seems to be doing good work there.

    I think he has been hurt by an improved Scotland not giving away the odd win. The six nations teams as a whole have improved over the last few years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    It was mentioned before that COS is not really a coach, he is a Director of rugby and then he has a coaching team who do all the work on the pitch.

    He has done great work with Italian rugby as a whole. The underage is competitive and the Italian teams are a lot better than before. Maybe his coaching team are just not good enough for International rugby. I think he took the coachs he worked with at Quins.

    So maybe the answer is to keep COS on as the Director because that part if working, but sack the coaching team and put a new team together to work with COS?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,893 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Pretty poor performance from Ireland, way too many errors to allow us get any sort of momentum going, again our halfbacks were well below par. I was in Rome in 2013 for the game we lost and I had a similar sinking feeling today while watching us play

    People can argue about who we're missing and other players not holding their hands up but today was 3rd game of the 6Ns where we played below a standard that we've come to expect

    Wales beating England gave us some hope but today's points difference as good as says that the 6Ns is over for us though I hope we regroup and kick the living daylights out of France and Wales.


  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    The good - away win .... bonus point .....

    The bad - poor performance .....

    The concerning - senior players ..... Sexton, Murray, O'Brien, Best, Kearney ......look laboured ..... well below par

    The worrying - Schmidt ..... seems stubborn ...... might come back to bite everyone if you're not carefull.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,898 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Clegg wrote: »
    Almost done in what respect?

    I think he's best days are behind him. Still a very good no 10 but not the greatest as he once once in my opinion. Time catching up with him


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    The good - away win .... bonus point .....

    The bad - poor performance .....

    The concerning - senior players ..... Sexton, Murray, O'Brien, Best, Kearney ......look laboured ..... well below par

    The worrying - Schmidt ..... seems stubborn ...... might come back to bite everyone if you're not carefull.

    Best was so laboured today it's almost like he wasn't even playing. Totally anonymous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    Clegg wrote: »
    Almost done in what respect?

    I think he's best days are behind him. Still a very good no 10 but not the greatest as he once once in my opinion. Time catching up with him

    He won world player of the year less than three months ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    troyzer wrote: »
    Best was so laboured today it's almost like he wasn't even playing. Totally anonymous.

    I know who played ......


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,898 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    troyzer wrote: »
    He won world player of the year less than three months ago.

    Yes I know. Just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    troyzer wrote: »
    He won world player of the year less than three months ago.


    Seemingly 3 months is a long time in rugby. He has gone from beating NZ to just a decent old 10, over the hill but decent???

    I wonder what has changed since the NZ game?

    Sexton is standing waiting for a ball that at times feels like it will never arrive.

    It would be interesting to see that game with Cooney and Sexton playing. Murray looked pedestrian a lot of the time and the whole team is suffering. By the time Sexton gets the ball the team is on top of him.

    For France they will not be able to drop both Sexton and Murray so at the moment the one in the worst form is Murray. I think swap and see how it goes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    He won world player of the year less than three months ago.


    Seemingly 3 months is a long time in rugby. He has gone from beating NZ to just a decent old 10, over the hill but decent???

    I wonder what has changed since the NZ game?

    Sexton is standing waiting for a ball that at times feels like it will never arrive.

    It would be interesting to see that game with Cooney and Sexton playing. Murray looked pedestrian a lot of the time and the whole team is suffering. By the time Sexton gets the ball the team is on top of him.

    For France they will not be able to drop both Sexton and Murray so at the moment the one in the worst form is Murray. I think swap and see how it goes.

    I agree. Murray is the critical weakness in the whole attack and needs time at Munster to get his body right. There was a noticable uptick when Cooney came in for each of the last three games.


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    I think he's best days are behind him. Still a very good no 10 but not the greatest as he once once in my opinion. Time catching up with him

    He was named World Rugby Player of the Year less than three months ago.

    He’s undercooked and out of form, but let’s relax a little bit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    troyzer wrote: »
    I agree. Murray is the critical weakness in the whole attack and needs time at Munster to get his body right. There was a noticable uptick when Cooney came in for each of the last three games.


    No idea how marmion got on at weekend so he could be option as well. Not like him and Sexton didn't have a good day last outing...


    Give it a bash, if it doesn't work and Sexton has a mare then look at Murray/Carberry but from my point of view the ball is far far too slow. Munster even seen this in Exeter game and Murray was pulled. It has not improved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    TimHorton wrote: »
    So you think Carty is a better player than Madigan ?

    Yes I do and given Madigan plays outside Ireland he will not be picked


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,236 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    The good - away win .... bonus point .....

    The bad - poor performance .....

    The concerning - senior players ..... Sexton, Murray, O'Brien, Best, Kearney ......look laboured ..... well below par

    The worrying - Schmidt ..... seems stubborn ...... might come back to bite everyone if you're not carefull.

    The lack of leadership today was very unexpected when you consider who was on the pitch. Another negative


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Lip reading, Some one was a f***ing moron any way according to Sexton as he walked off the pitch.
    POM played well but either the Italian scrum half or fullback should have been MOTM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Hands Like Flippers


    I don't understand, if it's a ruck then you can't pick the ball unless you step over it and you can't tackle the scrum half if he is in the motion of passing. I don't understand how it is possible to legally rip the ball from the scrum half.

    Nah. If he picks it up he is fair game


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Water John wrote: »
    Lip reading, Some one was a f***ing moron any way according to Sexton as he walked off the pitch.
    POM played well but either the Italian scrum half or fullback should have been MOTM.

    Maybe the ref? The ref was a disgrace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Maybe the ref? The ref was a disgrace.

    I don’t know if 100% true but It was on another forum the ref was in Super rugby last week and had a stinker, a NZ fan was laughing that his punishment was to ref a 6 nations match


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,265 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    This highlights Toner and his impact.
    Until someone else can get the l/o under control, Toner is undroppable imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Nah. If he picks it up he is fair game

    Doesn't the tackler have to come from behind the hindmost foot of the ruck? I have seen players penalised for "playing the nine", I assume that is because they were engaged in the ruck. So the Italian nine started behind the ruck and only move once the ball had left the ground? I'm asking because this area genuinely confuses me. I also remember a law where the ball isn't out when the nine has hands on the ball, he has some imaginary five yard area to exit. I have played nine and even I don't know, I just move it fast or take a step to create space depending on what is going on.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Doesn't the tackler have to come from behind the hindmost foot of the ruck? I have seen players penalised for "playing the nine", I assume that is because they were engaged in the ruck. So the Italian nine started behind the ruck and only move once the ball had left the ground? I'm asking because this area genuinely confuses me. I also remember a law where the ball isn't out when the nine has hands on the ball, he has some imaginary five yard area to exit. I have played nine and even I don't know, I just move it fast or take a step to create space depending on what is going on.

    Rewatch, there was feck all depth in the ruck. Barely a ruck.
    Murray should have been more aware


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Doesn't the tackler have to come from behind the hindmost foot of the ruck? I have seen players penalised for "playing the nine", I assume that is because they were engaged in the ruck. So the Italian nine started behind the ruck and only move once the ball had left the ground? I'm asking because this area genuinely confuses me. I also remember a law where the ball isn't out when the nine has hands on the ball, he has some imaginary five yard area to exit. I have played nine and even I don't know, I just move it fast or take a step to create space depending on what is going on.

    Rewatch, there was feck all depth in the ruck. Barely a ruck.
    Murray should have been more aware

    It's all on Murray, completely fair steal.

    People are just surprised it was a 9 melting the ruck but there was no ruck. He came straight through the gate and nobody was in the way.

    Murray throwing his hands up is unforgivable. I'd have hooked him then and there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Am I wrong in thinking most defence lines at the ruck are offside and thus closing the gap, which makes the line difficult to break? They are not behind the hindmost foot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Water John wrote: »
    Am I wrong in thinking most defence lines at the ruck are offside and thus closing the gap, which makes the line difficult to break? They are not behind the hindmost foot.

    Yeah. Offside lately is so badly enforced.

    I think World Rugby need to start looking at ARs being given the right to blow up when they see offside. The ref simply has too much to keep their eye on at once. How can they realistically officiate a mess at the breakdown and also watch what's going on in the defensive line at the same time? They're bound to miss something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    It's the linesman's role IWT. The guy next to the ruck on each side stay clearly on side and the outside players flat or behind him. Sorry for the derail but feel it's stifling the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    troyzer wrote: »
    Yeah. Offside lately is so badly enforced.

    I think World Rugby need to start looking at ARs being given the right to blow up when they see offside. The ref simply has too much to keep their eye on at once. How can they realistically officiate a mess at the breakdown and also watch what's going on in the defensive line at the same time? They're bound to miss something.


    The ARs do pick up on offsides, they are in a very good position to do so. Quite often you will hear the referee communicating with his assistant about an offside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Brewster wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    Yeah. Offside lately is so badly enforced.

    I think World Rugby need to start looking at ARs being given the right to blow up when they see offside. The ref simply has too much to keep their eye on at once. How can they realistically officiate a mess at the breakdown and also watch what's going on in the defensive line at the same time? They're bound to miss something.


    The ARs do pick up on offsides, they are in a very good position to do so. Quite often you will hear the referee communicating with his assistant about an offside.

    Well then the ARs are blind.

    In any given game there are dozens of instances of blatant offside that are never called. If it's in the interests of "the flow of the game" then it's bollocks. Defenses have enough advantages as it is without being able to tackle the carrier a split second after they get the ball by cheating.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    troyzer wrote: »
    It's all on Murray, completely fair steal.

    People are just surprised it was a 9 melting the ruck but there was no ruck. He came straight through the gate and nobody was in the way.

    Murray throwing his hands up is unforgivable. I'd have hooked him then and there.


    There had to have been a ruck at least, ever since they changed the definition of a ruck due to the England Italy game, you don't even need an opposing player to ruck against for it to be a ruck.

    I'll watch it again, I remember it being very sparse.


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