We have updated our Privacy Notice, you can read the updated document here
Mods please check the Moderators Group for an important update on Mod tools. If you do not have access to the group, please PM Niamh. Thanks!

St. Kilians Deutsche Schule - really need feedback

  • #2
    Registered Users Posts: 4 zaroon32


    My family and I are moving to Ireland soon, our kids are in primary school (aged 5 & 7) and was wondering if anyone had any feedback on St. Kilian’s German School in Dublin, it seems to be the only Deutsche Schule in Ireland? Our kids are already bi-lingual in another European language and would be great if we could get them into a language school in Ireland.


Comments

  • #2


    I know a few people with children there and the general feedback is very positive.


  • #2


    zaroon32 wrote: »
    My family and I are moving to Ireland soon, our kids are in primary school (aged 5 & 7) and was wondering if anyone had any feedback on St. Kilian’s German School in Dublin, it seems to be the only Deutsche Schule in Ireland? Our kids are already bi-lingual in another European language and would be great if we could get them into a language school in Ireland.

    My feedback is not so positive. If language is your main priority then you may want to reconsider you options. A lot of parents are very disappointed with the standard of German in the school. If you speak German I suggest you try and have a conversation with one of the kids in the school or even one of then teenagers in the secondary school and the low standard German will become is self evident. This is in a school where they are supposed to be learning German every day from the age of 5!!! There is a high rate of parents who are taking their kids out of the school and when parents try and raise their issues with management they are very antagonistic towards any type of criticism.

    Also, the primary school is 100% private meaning they're not regulated by the department of education and not required to hire qualified teachers being registered with the Teaching Council, read in that how you will.
    You can look up the register here. The registration number for the primary school is PJS020. They currently have 4 teachers who are registered, 2 of them are documented as working in the secondary school which is bizarre in it's own right. That means that the entire primary school has 2 qualified teachers working there. I hear that they are now using teachers from the secondary school to help out in the primary school.

    There are a whole host other issues which i could go into but will take too long to post right now.


  • #2


    Moving to Ireland and are expecting to enrol our kids in primary school in Ireland this September (ages 5&7). As it’s getting close to the deadline, would really appreciate as much feedback as possible because we will need to make a decision very soon. and really appreciate as much feedback as possible because we will need to make a decision very soon. We are also deciding where to live so the location of the school will be very important.

    We made some inquiries about St. Kilians Deutsche Schule and some of the responses were very mixed to put it mildly. The answers we got have raised more questions than they’ve answered to be honest and would appreciate if others on here could help answer:

    Q1. One of the main reasons for sending our kids to Kilians is because it’s a Deutsche Schule but many people have told me that it is not really a Deutsche Schule, we first asked about this about the school last October when we visited but they didn’t like the question and appeared to get annoyed that we were asking. We asked politely if the school was a real Deutsche Schule and didn’t get a very happy response. Could somebody please clarify if this school is actual a Deutsche Schule because this is a really important issue for us?

    Q2. I’ve be told that in St. Kilians, the Primary and Secondary School share the same building and that the primary school kids change class rooms for different subjects, this means that the kids are mixing/encountering the secondary school kids. I was also told that the primary and secondary kids can use the same toilets? Also that in first class the children change clothes for sports every day, our youngest is not used to getting changed on their own and the mixing between the older kids and sharing corridors and classrooms seems unusual. Is it normal in Ireland for kids in first class to change clothes on their own for sports everyday, and is it normal for primary and secondary students to share corridors and toilets? Will it be like this in all schools?

    Q3. From what I understand, the primary school is a private school and the secondary school is not. So if we send our kids to the primary school it means that from a legal perspective we are “home schooling” our children. Is this actually the case, that we would technically be home schooling our children?


  • #2


    Sending a child to a private school isn't considered home schooling.

    Can't answer as to what a "real Deutsche Schule" is, I'm afraid.

    To the best of my knowledge, the primary and secondary aren't in the same building. Ordinary Irish schools don't do PE every day- it's done on two different days, usually and the children wear their sports' uniform in to school. Many schools bring the children swimming from 1st up and the children change themselves.


  • #2


    Most primary schools here have a track suit they wear into school on PE days . They wouldn't expect a 5 year to get changed and kitted out
    When you say real " Deutche Shule " what do you mean by that ?


  • #2


    Sending a child to a private school isn't considered home schooling.

    Can't answer as to what a "real Deutsche Schule" is, I'm afraid.

    To the best of my knowledge, the primary and secondary aren't in the same building. Ordinary Irish schools don't do PE every day- it's done on two different days, usually and the children wear their sports' uniform in to school. Many schools bring the children swimming from 1st up and the children change themselves.

    Technically it's under the same statutory requirement and the registration process is the same.
    Under Section 14 (1) of the Education (Welfare) Act, 2000 parents of children who attend a non -recognised school - that is a school that is not funded by the Department of Educational and Skills (e.g. a private primary school) - or of children who are educated at home - must complete a registration assessment process.

    This legal requirement exists in order to support parents in their right to home educate and importantly, to safeguard a child's right to a minimum education.


  • #2


    From dealing with expats I know quite a few people with kids there. I sent you a PM


  • #2


    What I can tell you about that school is that it has a reputation as being a bit "flowy"...

    Many non Irish parents or families living in Ireland temporarily send their kids there because they think it's an international school so there is not a huge amount of feedback available, but in terms of teachers and academic performance levels the reputation of the school would not be great especially when you consider that it is a private fee paying school. There are much better options in terms of value for money IMO.

    Also, the school promotes itself as a German school but in reality the level of German is actually extremely extremely low. So much so that I hear they were close to having the designation Deutsch Schule removed from them a couple of years ago.
    You said your wife is a German speaker and if this is one of the main reasons for choosing this school then I would strongly suggest that you really need to consider your options because your children will not be speaking German at even an intermediate and dare I say basic level in this school.

    All in all, I suggest you research whether the primary school is registered with the Dept of Education and whether the teachers are registered with the Teaching Council and second, I suggest your thoroughly research the standard of German.


  • #2


    zaroon32 wrote: »
    Moving to Ireland and are expecting to enrol our kids in primary school in Ireland this September (ages 5&7). As it’s getting close to the deadline, would really appreciate as much feedback as possible because we will need to make a decision very soon. and really appreciate as much feedback as possible because we will need to make a decision very soon. We are also deciding where to live so the location of the school will be very important.

    We made some inquiries about St. Kilians Deutsche Schule and some of the responses were very mixed to put it mildly. The answers we got have raised more questions than they’ve answered to be honest and would appreciate if others on here could help answer:

    Q1. One of the main reasons for sending our kids to Kilians is because it’s a Deutsche Schule but many people have told me that it is not really a Deutsche Schule, we first asked about this about the school last October when we visited but they didn’t like the question and appeared to get annoyed that we were asking. We asked politely if the school was a real Deutsche Schule and didn’t get a very happy response. Could somebody please clarify if this school is actual a Deutsche Schule because this is a really important issue for us?

    There is a German stream in primary , first to sixth class. Where the subjects can be studied in German rather than English. I assume that is still the case.

    Q2. I’ve be told that in St. Kilians, the Primary and Secondary School share the same building and that the primary school kids change class rooms for different subjects, this means that the kids are mixing/encountering the secondary school kids. I was also told that the primary and secondary kids can use the same toilets? Also that in first class the children change clothes for sports every day, our youngest is not used to getting changed on their own and the mixing between the older kids and sharing corridors and classrooms seems unusual. Is it normal in Ireland for kids in first class to change clothes on their own for sports everyday, and is it normal for primary and secondary students to share corridors and toilets? Will it be like this in all schools?

    Yeah it’s one big building. The primary kids have Loos down the end of a corridor that the secondary kids wouldn’t use , to the best of my recollection.

    Q3. From what I understand, the primary school is a private school and the secondary school is not. So if we send our kids to the primary school it means that from a legal perspective we are “home schooling” our children. Is this actually the case, that we would technically be home schooling our children?

    Primary and secondary are private. Have you got a place to live in Dublin sorted yet ?


  • #2


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Primary and secondary are private.

    Yes and no. The primary is 100% private i.e.they are not regulated by the department of education which means they are free to hire whoever they choose i.e. teachers who are not qualified members of the Teaching Council.

    The secondary school is fee paying however the teachers salaries are paid by the dept of education and is therefore state regulated.

    The whole structure of that school seems quite unusual.


  • #2


    OP, the other thing to keep in mind is that Kilian's is a nightmare at drop off and collection times.
    The school starts at 8:15am and if you are driving you will need to give yourself at least 30 mins even if you live close to the school, that means you will have to leave your house by 7:45am at the latest.
    There is only one way in and one way out and you are driving into traffic mayhem. Parking spaces are full, bumper to bumper cars, cars parked on the kerb because there aren't enough spaces, parents arguing with each other. The stress levels are up to 90 and your day hasn't even started.
    If your kids aren't old enough you will have to try and park and then escort your child into the school while navigating through secondary school kids, parents, staff just to get to your kids classroom and then wait for the teacher to arrive while making small talk with the other parents which can be a struggle in itself.
    You will then have to make your way back to your car, queue in traffic just to get out of the school and then you're straight into Dublin traffic at 8:30/8:40 in the morning, and that's if your lucky enough not to be accosted for parking illegally by one of the campaign warrior parents who cycles to school on an €5k electric bike.

    Also, just to give you a heads up that if you go to the open day. The management in the school have this mantra that they repeat over and over that the reason Kilian's doesn't perform well academically as other schools is because they have students who go on to study in the UK, Europe etc because they have an international contingent. This is nonsense, the results are the results regardless of whether the kids go on to University in Ireland or elsewhere and this can be verified. You can ask the school board of management for the data but I doubt they would give that to you.

    Maybe there are other parents on here who can give you more positive feedback about the school but I'd imagine they're reluctant to give a recommendation because there is such a high rate of parents who take their kids out of the school.


  • #2


    OP, the other thing to keep in mind is that Kilian's is a nightmare at drop off and collection times.
    The school starts at 8:15am and if you are driving you will need to give yourself at least 30 mins even if you live close to the school, that means you will have to leave your house by 7:45am at the latest.
    There is only one way in and one way out and you are driving into traffic mayhem. Parking spaces are full, bumper to bumper cars, cars parked on the kerb because there aren't enough spaces, parents arguing with each other. The stress levels are up to 90 and your day hasn't even started.
    If your kids aren't old enough you will have to try and park and then escort your child into the school while navigating through secondary school kids, parents, staff just to get to your kids classroom and then wait for the teacher to arrive while making small talk with the other parents which can be a struggle in itself.
    You will then have to make your way back to your car, queue in traffic just to get out of the school and then you're straight into Dublin traffic at 8:30/8:40 in the morning, and that's if your lucky enough not to be accosted for parking illegally by one of the campaign warrior parents who cycles to school on an €5k electric bike.

    Also, just to give you a heads up that if you go to the open day. The management in the school have this mantra that they repeat over and over that the reason Kilian's doesn't perform well academically as other schools is because they have students who go on to study in the UK, Europe etc because they have an international contingent. This is nonsense, the results are the results regardless of whether the kids go on to University in Ireland or elsewhere and this can be verified. You can ask the school board of management for the data but I doubt they would give that to you.

    Maybe there are other parents on here who can give you more positive feedback about the school but I'd imagine they're reluctant to give a recommendation because there is such a high rate of parents who take their kids out of the school.

    I think you're getting confused here. Why would any fee charging school mention over and over that they don't perform well academically?

    The transition to Irish university is above 100% https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3719470.1543903379!/menu/standard/file/fs.pdf

    Average Leaving cert points in 2018 was 469 which isn't too bad by other Fee Charging standards. Despite your claims the data is freely available here BTW https://www.kilians.com/our-school-in-numbers/

    They do have a high international contingent with 20% German and 43% International.


  • #2


    I think you're getting confused here. Why would any fee charging school mention over and over that they don't perform well academically?

    Exactly, why would any school, fee paying or otherwise, feel the need to repeat this over and over. FYI, there's no confusion on my part, I'm just highlighting what school management have said themselves on several occasions which, like you, I found to be unusual.
    The transition to Irish university is above 100% https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3719470.1543903379!/menu/standard/file/fs.pdf
    Average Leaving cert points in 2018 was 469 which isn't too bad by other Fee Charging standards. Despite your claims the data is freely available here BTW https://www.kilians.com/our-school-in-numbers/

    Did you get the aggregated school level data during your research by any chance? It's available from the board of management and makes for some very interesting reading. I suggest you get a copy if they'll give it to you.

    OP, if you're main priority for your kids is third level progression then there are much better options. If your main priority for your kids is a second language then there are definitely better options. This is one of the main grievances that many parents have with Kilian's is that they promote themselves as a German school but the reality is that it is a German school in name only.

    Also, from what I've been told, the primary school in St Kilians is a 100% private school which means it's not regulated by the Department of Education which also means that they don't have to hire qualified teachers who are registered with the Teaching Council of Ireland. I may be wrong and am open to correction but if you check the register here https://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Registration/Register-of-Teachers/Search-the-Register/Search-the-Register.html there are two entries for St. Kilians. The primary school is reference PJS020 and the secondary is 60630W.
    From the list for the primary school there are two registered teachers working in the primary school, just two qualified teachers in the whole primary school???

    The cumulative effect of all this begs the question as to what exactly are you paying for? You're supposed to sending your kids to a Deutsche Schule that teaches very little German and the teachers appear not be qualified and registered with the Teaching Council?


  • #2


    Just an update on this thread. You’ve probably already made your decision now but apparently this school is haemorrhaging kids from parents taking their kids out of the school. Won’t go into specifics here but anyone can PM me for details. I also have some experience with this school when we first moved back to Dublin after being in NZ and elsewhere for several years and it did not meet our expectations to say the least.


  • #2


    Hello,

    I have spoken to a couple of families who bring their kids there and they are very happy with both level of German and academic level. Can you please give me more details? Im getting concerned as my children will be attending next year, but you and another person mentioned here about parents takimg kids out of the school...
    Also, what do you mean by management amtogonistic?
    Do you have any specific examples of issues with teachers or the level?

    Thanks


  • #2


    I have received 3 great recommendations for the school. I know drop of could be challenging but if you want a school with nice facilities and an additional language, I suppose this is a minor con. Can you please share more relevant feedback about why you would not recommend the school? Im bringing my kids next year and want to make sure that Im making the right decison. For me a good international environment, the languages but also how kids are supported and encouraged/mentored and academic level/quality of teaching is the most important.

    Thanks


  • #2


    Threads merged .


  • #2


    Hey all, I sent my son to Kilians, and encountered a problem that I haven't seen mentioned before. I'm posting here about it so it can be seen if anyone else is researching. My son was diagnosed with borderline ASD, and Kilians has been extremely unpleasant about the situation from the beginning. He is so borderline I was told he might actually grow out of it, and that he should be in a mainstream setting. However, the head teacher of the primary school told me straight out that he had to go. I felt certain that I had misunderstood, but ANY other child with additional needs was told bluntly to go. The school gives the excuse over and over again that they don't have resources, which as you can imagine is not the case; they simply don't want to have children with any physical or cognitive issues, no matter how minor. Private schools have autonomy on this issue, and I've found myself powerless to make them properly educate my son. When he started in their kindergarten there were five children with various issues; he is leaving the school to start somewhere else next September, and he is the last child in his class to try and stick it out. Any issue with a child, I have also been told, is handled punitively, rather than with any support at all. At least one other parent who had a child in an older class is taking her and her brother out, just because the school seems to have such rigid ideas on how to approach these issues. Food for thought!


  • #2
    I am so sorry to hear this. My 11 yr old son with mild ADD and dyspraxia goes to a brilliant national school (he is 5th class) and we have felt nothing but supported by his school, the principal and the staff. He is super bright and gets on well in mainstream. We have St Kilians secondary in mind for him in Sept 2022 due to it being co-ed, relatively small student numbers per year - European / German language focus is a bonus (he has some German) but I hear very mixed things. Would you have any feedback on the secondary school and their learning support team and approach. Our son will need continued light touch help - checking in with someone etc. I just don’t know how hands on they are or whether they are really bothered. Happy to PM if easier!


Society & Culture