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HEA Survey and Lies by the media

Comments

  • #2
    Postgrad10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    I heard it on the news, it's propaganda!!


  • #3
    Liberal_irony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭Liberal_irony


    Gotta put the teachers down before they strike... Someone in the independent must really dislike teachers because this is the latest in a string of teacher bashing articles


  • #4
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,021 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    On the results itself.
    Section 6: Education1
    Honours Bachelor Degree in Education (Second Level Teaching)
    „ The majority of such graduates are in employment (88%), 5% are in further study
    or training, 5% are seeking employment and 2% are not available for work.
    „ In terms of employment type, 85% are employed in Ireland with 35% employed in
    temporary whole-time teaching while a further 14% are employed on a part-time basis
    in Ireland. 7% of Honours Bachelor Degree graduates are employed in permanent teaching
    in Ireland.
    „ Of those employed overseas, 7% are also employed in permanent teaching positions.
    5% are employed in temporary whole-time teaching abroad and 3% did not specify
    their type of employment.
    Professional Master of Education (Second Level Teaching)
    „ The findings show that the majority (90%) of such graduates are in employment, 90% of
    which are employed in Ireland. 7% are employed on a permanent basis, 38% are employed
    in temporary whole-time teaching and 17% are working on a part-time basis.
    „ Additionally, 10% of such graduates are working overseas, with 3% on permanent contracts.

    It is clear that it is not difficult to get employment teaching in Ireland, with 88% (Bachelor Degree) and 90% (PME) in employment, where 35%/38% on temporary full-time contracts, 14%/17% on a tempory part-time basis and 7% are employed on a permanent full-time basis.

    What is difficult to get is a permanent gig. That is clear. The system seems stuck in this regard. However, interestingly the figure is the same for those who are abroad.

    Perhaps the extended leave of permanent teachers need to be looked at as one factor of a solution.


  • #5
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Results are no surprise, it's impossible to get anyone to do subbing so it seems nearly every graduate has some work. But total propaganda, part time is not same as supply teaching.


  • #6
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    markodaly wrote: »
    On the results itself.



    It is clear that it is not difficult to get employment teaching in Ireland, with 88% (Bachelor Degree) and 90% (PME) in employment, where 35%/38% on temporary full-time contracts, 14%/17% on a tempory part-time basis and 7% are employed on a permanent full-time basis.

    What is difficult to get is a permanent gig. That is clear. The system seems stuck in this regard. However, interestingly the figure is the same for those who are abroad.

    Perhaps the extended leave of permanent teachers need to be looked at as one factor of a solution.

    Nice try markodaly....

    What type of employment are you talking about?

    Full time permanent 1st point on the scale.... oh yeah 90% of educationposts.ie are those too aren't they mark!


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  • #7
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,021 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    evolving_doors wrote: »

    What type of employment are you talking about?

    Employment, I thought my post was clear. If it was not let me know and I'll try and clear it up.


  • #8
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Liberal_irony wrote: »
    Gotta put the teachers down before they strike... Someone in the independent must really dislike teachers because this is the latest in a string of teacher bashing articles

    They just bash whatever is popular. Click bait stuff.


  • #9
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    The Independent has always knocked teachers. A rag, every bit as bad as the tabloids. Worse actually, since they have notions of being a proper newspaper.


  • #10
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    As an addendum.

    If you have graduated from a part-time course whilst working as a teacher. IS your salary earning figure being included in the 'new graduates' figure?

    All of the outcome surveys you complete after doing the course

    e.g. http://www3.ul.ie/careers/careers/stugrad/what_graduates_do.shtml

    are used by the HEA to publish their reports on graduate outcomes

    http://hea.ie/statistics/information-for-institutions/graduate-outcomes-survey/

    It would take a bit of digging but I wonder does this spin from the Indo.
    Teachers top the pay league for all graduates and have the best chance of walking straight into a job after college, a new survey reveals.

    It also shows that the gender pay gap remains an issue for graduates, with a difference of almost €4,000 recorded between young men's and women's pay.

    The Higher Education Authority's (HEA) survey confirms that average starting salaries hit €38,701 for graduates from education courses.

    come from figures of teachers who are already in employment and undertaking postgrad courses (i.e. Leadership and Management, SEN etc.).

    The average starting salary of €38,701 is way above the payscale amount when you consider it's an average. Grand.. some people are getting below that, but for that to be an average how are starting teachers getting above that 38k amount !!


  • #11
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,021 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    These are all hypothetical questions, but the survey itself is a 'Graduate' survey, not a survey of people already in the workplace and doing postgrad courses unless you have proof that contradicts this of course.

    Why not just ask the HEA?


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  • #12
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    markodaly wrote: »
    These are all hypothetical questions, but the survey itself is a 'Graduate' survey, not a survey of people already in the workplace and doing postgrad courses unless you have proof that contradicts this of course.

    Why not just ask the HEA?

    Actually the survey itself - from the HEA- isn't a survey, it's an aggregate of graduate surveys undertaken by colleges themselves with the data sent on to the HEA.

    Don't forget people 'already in the workplace' do 'graduate' from part time courses too.

    Simple question Mark...

    How could the reported average figure of €38701 by the independent be true if the point of entry in Primary and Secondary is €36318 or secondary are

    https://www.tui.ie/welcome-to-our-website/common-basic-scale-post-1111.5778.html

    https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    That's even before people on part time contracts are included. If anything they'd further reduce this €36,318 by a very large amount.

    Do you accept the Independent's figures?
    Their maths doesn't add up.


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