Tips not given to staff in restaurants ?

LuasSimon

Spoke to niece who does some casual work in restaurant ( not in Dublin ) and was told the owner retains all tips and doesn’t give anything to staff??
Eg the niece was pleasant and chatting to an American guest about her vacation who gave her 4 euro .
The owner swooped after tourist left and pocketed the tip herself telling niece to hand it over and get back serving tables ??
The owner drives a big Jeep while most of the staff haven’t a bean , surely this isn’t right ??

It's not right but there are a lot of arseholes out there.
A friend worked in a bar/restaurant and all tips were pooled and handed out every few months including to the kitchen staff. We worked out that what was being handed out amount to a fiver per server per 8 hour shift which was obviously bull****.
There's some hungry bastards out there.

mikemac2

Some owners keep the tips and promise it goes to the staff Christmas party as if this is most generous perk ever

It either doesn't happen or is some scabby cheap affair

Church on Tuesday

Gosh, no wonder he has a big Jeep...

Probably over compensating.

I tip when I can the very odd time, but there's more of a culture for it in the States from what I gather.

branie2

That's very mean

s4uv3

I was a waitress in Australia for a short tine, and my boss there whipped all my tips. Insisted they went into the 'tip jar', which got emptied into the till every night.
I soon got wise to it and pocketed whatever tips I could. Wish I had had the balls to stand up for myself like I would do now

punisher5112

Why would anyone work for such a tool..,

Mrs OBumble

If you don't like the way your boss is distributing the tips, leave and get a job someplace that suits you better.

Pooling tips is the only way to ensure that the team members who contribute to the customer experience, but don't actually get face-time with them, get a share. Very few places allow individuals to pocket tips and not share with their colleagues.

bee06

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you don't like the way your boss is distributing the tips, leave and get a job someplace that suits you better.

Pooling tips is the only way to ensure that the team members who contribute to the customer experience, but don't actually get face-time with them, get a share. Very few places allow individuals to pocket tips and not share with their colleagues.

But the owner is keeping the tips not pooling them.

FTA69

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you don't like the way your boss is distributing the tips, leave and get a job someplace that suits you better.

Pooling tips is the only way to ensure that the team members who contribute to the customer experience, but don't actually get face-time with them, get a share. Very few places allow individuals to pocket tips and not share with their colleagues.

Yeah in the case of the OP the owner is actively stealing off his staff and swindling his customers by making them think they’re tipping the servers; your point doesn’t apply at all.

Don’t take the above advice OP, get your colleagues together and collectively demand your tips that’s a f*cking liberty.

corner of hells

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah in the case of the OP the owner is actively stealing off his staff and swindling his customers by making them think they’re tipping the servers; your point doesn’t apply at all.

Don’t take the above advice OP, get your colleagues together and collectively demand your tips that’s a f*cking liberty.

A tip for you , read the opening post .

the_pen_turner

first of all im against tipping unless the services was above what should be expected. almost imposible

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

punisher5112

the_pen_turner wrote: »

first of all im against tipping unless the services was above what should be expected. almost imposible

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

If I tip I'm tipping the server not the owner.

I've paid the owner and quite well in most cases as with their prices.

branie2

I was given tips twice when I was working in different places.

Rachiee

If I tip I don't expect the kitchen staff to get a cut, I didn't tip because the food was nice, I paid very good money for the food and expected it to be nice, I tip for the service

punisher5112

Rachiee wrote: »

If I tip I don't expect the kitchen staff to get a cut, I didn't tip because the food was nice, I paid very good money for the food and expected it to be nice, I tip for the service

I think that's a bit poor to be honest.

Usually kitchen staff are on buttons and work extremely hard.

I like the idea of it been spread around but not to the owner.

i71jskz5xu42pb

LuasSimon wrote: »

Spoke to niece who does some casual work in restaurant ( not in Dublin ) and was told the owner retains all tips and doesn’t give anything to staff??
Eg the niece was pleasant and chatting to an American guest about her vacation who gave her 4 euro .
The owner swooped after tourist left and pocketed the tip herself telling niece to hand it over and get back serving tables ??
The owner drives a big Jeep while most of the staff haven’t a bean , surely this isn’t right ??

Dick move but not illegal it seems. I've a vague recollection that one of the unions were looking for something to be done about this.

It'd be illegal if the employer was just pocketing those tips and not declaring it as revenue. But Revenue would need to investigate for that to be uncovered.

If I were her I'd just pocket any tips, hard to do if the tip is on a card.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/young_people_at_work/rights_of_young_workers.html

If you are working in a workplace where staff are given tips/gratuities by customers (such as a restaurant, bar, etc.) there is nothing in law to state you are automatically entitled to these tips. However, the law does not require you to hand these tips to your employer either. Instead, it all depends on the custom and practice in your workplace.

If all tips are collected by management and paid to staff through the payroll, then these tips are subject to tax in the normal way.

freshpopcorn

I used work and studied in that sector. Most people hated having tips pooled.
In one place they'd pool all the tips and bring the staff on a day trip in the month of January. It's a very well known five star hotel.

Lia_lia

When I was in college I interviewed for a busy (but not the most popular on boards!) restaurant in Cork. They said for the first few months working there you get no tips and they go to the senior staff as you have to “prove yourself”. They offered me a trial over the phone and I told them where to go! Never went in there again after that.

branie2

You did the right thing there

Subcomandante Marcos

A wanky pretentious overpriced British chain restaurant that charges a service change in Dublin was recently Shamed for taking staff tips and tried to defend it by saying the staff made (barely) more than minimum wage.

storker

the_pen_turner wrote: »

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

I disagree. If I'm giving a tip then from my point of view I'm giving it to the staff member and NOT the company. It's my money...once the meal is paid for I get to decide who I intend anything extra to go to, not the establishment. If the owner insists on pocketing it, then no tip for him. And no further custom from me either.

Pintman Paddy Losty

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

storker

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules.

My money, my rules. If he wants to keep it, he doesn't get it.

Church on Tuesday

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

Made me laugh anyways.

Plumbthedepths

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote:

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

If the service is terrible not only do I not go back to the premises but I also refuse to pay the service charge. It's the grubby servers that along good food ensure repeat business. Judging by your comment other than a wind up you do not operate in the hospitality industry.

branie2

Some servers rely on tips

fineso.mom

If you are not going to get the tip anyway, then I would just tell the customer to keep it. I would be very annoyed if I thought money I left as a tip for the staff went to the boss. If the boss gets complaints from customers and gives out, just tell him the customer asked you if the tips go to the staff and you just answered truthfully.

dartboardio

Not surprised. I worked in a restaurant where it was clear women were valued less than men.

I was one of 2 female waitresses and 1 male manager. At the end of the night one of the male kitchen staff would take the tips in the back and count them himself. Hed always give the men more and throw us ladies 5 euro for example if they got 15.

It was an indian restaurant if that's of any relevance. So glad i dont work there anymore.

The guy was pleasant and nice but you could just tell he thought he was better than us. Or that all the men were.

Some taste in workplaces i have eh. A place i worked in for 2 years my boss would have no problem telling me 'womens job is in the front at the serving counter' ha.

dartboardio

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Made me laugh anyways.

Are you even in Ireland? Ridiculous minimum wage?

Have you even seen the price of a bus fare, pint (average €6, 40 minutes work) or box of cigarettes lately? (€13 over a bloody hour of your working day).

carltonleon

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

HA HA HA !!! Quality Trolling ... so funny!!!

The Tetrarch

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

Then tell customers that the owner is taking tips from the servers for himself/herself.
Or put up a sign that says that, and watch his business skyrocket (possibly not true).

Church on Tuesday

dartboardio wrote: »

Are you even in Ireland? Ridiculous minimum wage?

Have you even seen the price of a bus fare, pint (average €6, 40 minutes work) or box of cigarettes lately? (€13 over a bloody hour of your working day).

Are you referring to me or the other poster?

anewme2050

You can tell by the atmosphere in a restaurant if the staff are happy.

If I think for one second the tips are not being shared I wont return

Staff morale is very important and management robbing worker tips is one easy way to ruin that....

dartboardio

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Are you referring to me or the other poster?

Haha sorry that was for pintman.

Church on Tuesday

dartboardio wrote: »

Haha sorry that was for pintman.

No worries.

You're not exactly wrong in what you said.

Jane_Dough

I do not tip anymore.

Worked in a five star Dublin hotel as a commis chef and the tips were divided out between the waiting staff and both the head chef and sous chef. No other chefs received a cut despite working 10x harder.

I've witnessed far too many tip scandals in my time waitressing and cheffing.

con___manx1

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

It sounds to me that you look down your nose at servers. When I tip I want the server to recieve the tip as they get paid feck all. Why would i want to tip someone who owns a restaraunt and possibly driving around in a new range rover ? Id rather see the server save a few pound to put them selves through college or make ends meet.

decky1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why would anyone work for such a tool..,

sorry but the word 'Tool' does'nt even come near what this guy is, wish i had a daughter working for him we'd soon get him down to size.:mad: i always give the server a tip, everyone likes to get a little bit extra and if she keeps it ok , and if they have a jar to pool all tips better still, someone should stop this guy, greedy 'Clint'

Teddy Daniels

the_pen_turner wrote: »

first of all im against tipping unless the services was above what should be expected. almost imposible

should be expected and is expected are two different things, i tip 20% as long as they keep my wife happy.

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

I tip the server, if i found out the business had swiped it and redistributed it id report them for the vat and payrole implications.

mikemac2

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you don't like the way your boss is distributing the tips, leave and get a job someplace that suits you better.

Pooling tips is the only way to ensure that the team members who contribute to the customer experience, but don't actually get face-time with them, get a share. Very few places allow individuals to pocket tips and not share with their colleagues.

You didn’t even read what the OP posted

OldGoat

Rachiee wrote: »

If I tip I don't expect the kitchen staff to get a cut, I didn't tip because the food was nice, I paid very good money for the food and expected it to be nice, I tip for the service

So if the food you ordered comes along cold and under-cooked but the service is done with a smile you'd still tip?

seamus

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I tip the server, if i found out the business had swiped it and redistributed it id report them for the vat and payrole implications.

There are no VAT or payroll implications.

Staff have no general entitlement to receive personal gifts. Some company policies require that all gifts are passed onto the company for redistribution. This can include flowers and chocolates.

In effect the employee is a representative of the company. Legally any gift to an employee during the course of their work, is considered a gift to the company

A tip is no different in law. If it is company policy that the company takes the tips, then that's how it works, scabby as it may be.

So there are no VAT or payroll implications, but there would be income tax implications. If the owner is pocketing it as spare cash and not declaring it, then he could be in trouble.

For tipping, I'll usually throw in 10% where the staff have been good. Nothing at all though if gratuity is added on.

andekwarhola

Although it's doubtful if you get a straight answer, I usually discreetly ask the waiter(ess) if the serving staff keep their own tips and if not, I try and tip directly.

If I know for certain that tips aren't going straight to serving staff, I wouldn't go back to the restaurant again.

If your business isn't economically viable without stealing the gratuity that I choose to pay to low paid staff from my own pocket, then your business is not viable. Full stop.

murpho999

branie2 wrote: »

Some servers rely on tips

Which ones? How do you know this?

In Ireland they get minimum wage? Why would they be dependent on non-obligatory tips.

This is not the USA and I hate how this tipping culture is creeping in.

The US has a different system to here so we don't need to leave tips.

Why don't you tip other servers such as supermarket till workers, shop attendants, coffee shop workers etc.

They do a similar job on similar money but get nothing.

Dyr

From a legal perspective you wonder what sort of legal ground an employer is on here, if I hand money to someone, even if it's in their capacity as employee performing their duties, what grounds does a third party (their boss) have to confiscate it?

They're sailing close to theft it seems to me

murpho999

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

should be expected and is expected are two different things, i tip 20% as long as they keep my wife happy.

Why would you tip 20% just to keep your wife happy?

Imagine if everything in life was 20% dearer for absolutely no reason?

I tip the server, if i found out the business had swiped it and redistributed it id report them for the vat and payrole implications.

What VAT and payroll implications?

You don't pay VAT on revenue which is what a swiped tip would be.

Also it would not be deemed as pay for the staff so there is no pay roll implications.

Theft is the avenue you should go down as I think that's the only wrong that is being done here.

andekwarhola

It wouldn't be a bad idea if restaurants were obliged to declare how tips are processed and let customers decide with their feet if that's OK.

It is a gratuity - outside of the cost of your meal - that you pay from your own pocket, after all. And in many cases, it's a gratuity you personally opt to pay based on goodwill between you and the member(s) of staff you are being implicitly led to believe are receiving the money.

Yohnathan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

first of all im against tipping unless the services was above what should be expected. almost imposible

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

I have so many replies to this;

1. I grew up working in a family business and my father had 10 bar staff at least. Everyone kept their own tips and if my father was tipped, he would keep his own tip, nobody else's.

2. When I went to University, I worked in a bar in Dublin where everybody kept their own tips. There was around 30 employees on any given night. The bar staff, floor staff and the doormen all kept their own tips. These additional contributions to our wages helped a lot of the students to get through the week.

3. I am finished University 5 years and since I got my "professional job" I now go out of my way to tip good waiters, and especially good barmen. You have to remember that these people are often struggling through college or have kids to raise. Nobody is made tip and even if you cannot pay the 10%, 2 euro would even be appreciated.

4. I do not tip the Company, I tip the staff member I have provided the money to. If someone is stealing in a scenario like this, it is the owner who has taken the property right of the waiter/waitress/bar staff etc (protected by our constitution).

5. I have no real issue if it is equally split but this should be done when you pay by card for instance and it then goes into the company's bank account. This covers the staff who are not front of the business. If however, I give the waitress etc physical cash in hand, then it is for them and them only. The owner does not have the right to decide what he or she wants to do with my money. That is my decision. I have already paid the owner what he has asked for.

6. If you ever worked in the service industry and no longer do, make sure that you don't forget how hungry you once were for that additional bit of money to count at the end of your night. Ex-Service staff should tip current service staff.

seamus

andekwarhola wrote: »

It wouldn't be a bad idea if restaurants were obliged to declare how tips are processed and let customers decide with their feet if that's OK.

It is a gratuity - outside of the cost of your meal - that you pay from your own pocket, after all. And in many cases, it's a gratuity you personally opt to pay based on goodwill between you and the member(s) of staff you are being implicitly led to believe are receiving the money.

An opposition bill was put forward last year to deal with exactly this. It would require that restaurants have their tipping policy displayed on their menus and include protections for employees.

It'll probably sit idle and be dusted off by some Government in a few years.

I'd personally prefer that we worked to eliminate it completely, encourage companies to proudly display a "we pay our staff enough that you don't need to tip them" sign. It's considered offensive in Japanese culture to tip staff, because you're implying the owner is a cheapskate. A staff member who takes the tip is also offending his employer by implying that he's not getting enough.
Japanese restaurants in the US operate a no-tip culture and their staff report them as some of the best places to work.

Tipping in Ireland only really came in during the 90's, it's an effete Americanism designed to show off how generous you are. But now we've all been sucked into it and staff treated shoddily on the basis that the customers will pick up owner's slack.

LuasSimon

To be honest if it was my own daughter id stop them working in the restaurant.

Why would anyone work in a restaurant on a minimum wage if there wasn't a few tips to help ?

Restaurant owners that take tips off the staff should be named and shamed.