Have you ever experienced true corruption?

Crock Rock

I've heard rhetoric spewed about that we are apparently one of the most corrupt countries in the world. I've never heard of or experience corruption at a small level here in Ireland, apart from hearing about political corruption.


Corruption is widespread and riddled through society in other countries.



When travelling through in Lagos, I was asked several times for a "mineral" (small monetary bribe) to expedite bag searches etc. In Egypt I was asked several times for "Baksheesh" for similar things and to "skip" official queues.


We don't see petty corruption like that here.

By an older woman.

Crock Rock

Deleted User wrote: »

By an older woman.

Corruption.... apt username

arctictree

Crock Rock wrote: »

I've heard rhetoric spewed about that we are apparently one of the most corrupt countries in the world. I've never heard of or experience corruption at a small level here in Ireland, apart from hearing about political corruption.


Corruption is widespread and riddled through society in other countries.



When travelling through in Lagos, I was asked several times for a "mineral" (small monetary bribe) to expedite bag searches etc. In Egypt I was asked several times for "Baksheesh" for similar things and to "skip" official queues.


We don't see petty corruption like that here.

Agreed. Have just been through a lengthy planning process here and not once was any payment suggested to any official.

On the other hand I have done business in various African countries and the scale of corruption is really something to behold. It goes from the top all the way down.

Eire Go Brach

Bertie Ahern. The man that destroyed my country.

gozunda

Plenty ...

corner of hells

Yes , yes I have.

I was having a pint years ago with a mate who worked in a petrol station .

An infamous politician walked into the pub and my pal handed him a brown envelope on behalf of his employer.

After some more alcohol my pal spilled the beans saying his employer owned the land around the petrol station and wanted to sell it with planning permission.

The politician received lots of brown envelopes and the land was eventually sold with planning permission .

I kid you not about the brown envelopes.

Buford T Justice

corner of hells wrote: »

Yes , yes I have.

I was having a pint years ago with a mate who worked in a petrol station .

An infamous politician walked into the pub and my pal handed him a brown envelope on behalf of his employer.

After some more alcohol my pal spilled the beans saying his employer owned the land around the petrol station and wanted to sell it with planning permission.

The politician received lots of brown envelopes and the land was eventually sold with planning permission .

I kid you not about the brown envelopes.

This is just symptomatic of the climate at the time. You'll find that more than likely the land owner didn't think he did anything wrong. It was simply how business was done back then. If you wanted something, it took a brown envelope.

Capt'n Midnight

I've lost lots of document stored on floppy disks

Victor

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I've lost lots of document stored on floppy disks

I lost an entire 32GB SD Drive.

foxy farmer

In this country it's called political donations. Builders give a councillor or TD a few K and lo and behold rhat builder gets planning permission with v little hassle. Or wins a tender for some big state contract. All's grand as its declared and fully transparent.

grindle

Buford T Justice wrote: »

This is just symptomatic of the climate at the time. You'll find that more than likely the land owner didn't think he did anything wrong. It was simply how business was done back then. If you wanted something, it took a brown envelope.

Makes sense for most times. From king's tithes to priest's favours, politicians became the priests of business favours and legal loopholing and they wanted their cut.

byronbay2

Buford T Justice wrote: »

This is just symptomatic of the climate at the time. You'll find that more than likely the land owner didn't think he did anything wrong. It was simply how business was done back then. If you wanted something, it took a brown envelope.

Correct. Likewise, the bogus non-resident bank accounts that were so popular in the 80's. You might think (looking back now) that those thousands of people were corrupt but at the time it was seen as a handy loophole to avoid paying the absolutely penal (~70%) tax rates. Lots and lots of ordinary, "pillar of the community"-type people had bogus non-resident accounts.

Flyingsnowball

I remember a fella from coolock was caught taking money to let foreign people skip the que at immigration or some public body office.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Not really at a high official level.

I've seen some in Martial Arts circles, usually centered around easy grading's for favors done.

I've also done nightclub doorwork for 25 years where it would be a regular enough occurance for a Garda to flash their badges to look for free entry or late (after hours) drink.

Giveaway

The real corruption in this country is the many people in state employment doing Sweet FA and the many claiming social welfare when they have employment or no disability

normanoffside

At the train station in Palermo I was reporting as lost camera to the station master when a shady looking guy came over demanding his attention. The station master apologised profusely to me for the interruption and went over immediately to the fella.
The Guy asked if his 'thing' had arrived and the station master went into the back, produced a package handed it over and received an envelope in return. Without breaking sweat he came back to me immediately to ask about my camera...


Later that day in a Chinese restaurant we openly heard a group of Sicilians and Japanese openly discussing a drug deal in 'broken English'.

Palermo was the most openly corrupt place I have ever been to, at the same stage one of the nicest and safest places for a tourist.

Capt'n Midnight

Victor wrote: »

I lost an entire 32GB SD Drive.

Did you try down the back of the sofa ?


or whip out the soldering iron take off the memory chip and do magic

blackbox

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/ex-clerk-of-wicklow-town-council-guilty-of-corruption-1.2453684%3fmode=amp

Still waters

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

Not really at a high official level.

I've seen some in Martial Arts circles, usually centered around easy grading's for favors done.

I've also done nightclub doorwork for 25 years where it would be a regular enough occurance for a Garda to flash their badges to look for free entry or late (after hours) drink.

Does it work for them or did you tell them jog on

Snow Garden

I have seen people get decent jobs in the public sector because of who they know not because they were the best candidate (by a long shot!). I guess that is corruption.

Buford T Justice

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have seen people get decent jobs in the public sector because of who they know not because they were the best candidate (by a long shot!). I guess that is corruption.

Thats nepotism

bizidea

I will next week when I go for a job interview even though I know who will get the jobs before the interviews are even done corruption is alive and well

Sleeper12

Michael lowry as FG minister for communications had many a brown envelope & the 2nd mobile phone licence went to the wrong company.

Denis Naughten another FG minister for communications was ousted from the roll in the nick of Time after he was wined & dined by the only remaining bidder in the national broadband plan.

Still plenty of corruption in Irish politics no matter what party seems to be in power

Hedgelayer

Engineer's just out of college working on building site's during the boom.

Some couldn't even figure out how to open a measuring tape, signing of half built houses.

Not even knowing how long cement takes to harden, the list goes on....

mzungu

arctictree wrote: »

Agreed. Have just been through a lengthy planning process here and not once was any payment suggested to any official.

On the other hand I have done business in various African countries and the scale of corruption is really something to behold. It goes from the top all the way down.

Even the commercial cargo ships have to pay bribes before they will be allowed dock at ports (in west Africa). Companies accounted for it in their budget, it was/still is seen as a normal part of business. TIA, though!

L1011

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Michael lowry as FG minister for communications had many a brown envelope & the 2nd mobile phone licence went to the wrong company.

Denis Naughten another FG minister for communications was ousted from the roll in the nick of Time after he was wined & dined by the only remaining bidder in the national broadband plan.

Still plenty of corruption in Irish politics no matter what party seems to be in power

Naughten was not an FG minister.

Nepotism used to be rife in both public sector and unionised private sector roles. It's now more seen in private sector professions - getting a GP training place or an airline cadetship etc. Public Appointments Commission or whatever it's called has made it almost unheard of there

Hotblack Desiato

Giveaway wrote: »

The real corruption in this country is the many people in state employment doing Sweet FA

It's always great to have a self-appointed expert on tap on Boards whenever you need one.

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have seen people get decent jobs in the public sector because of who they know not because they were the best candidate (by a long shot!). I guess that is corruption.

Have you ever actually tried to get a job in the public sector?

Your claim is, to be frank, utter bollocks.

Nepotism is rife in Ireland all right, but in the private sector, and family owned businesses in particular. The owner's son always gets a responsible job, no matter how thick or useless he is, and anyone who crosses him may as well just resign.

Irish SMEs are miserable cûnts to work for, in general, and I think their incompetence and tight-fistedness is a major factor in holding our domestic economy back - we can't all depend on the multinationals or the public sector to find decent paying jobs.


I think Naughten is a case of severe and utter stupidity rather than corruption. It bumped up the average IQ of the government so no loss.

realitykeeper

There were the millions of fake breathalizer tests for which the Gardaí were paid by the taxpayer. When an outside Commissioner was brought in because of this and other Garda related scandals, the Gardaí thought they should be paid extra for loss of opportunity - in other words they wanted to get paid for being corrupt.

The greatest corruption in this country is the political system in which national politicians want to spend all their time doing favours for locals in their constituency clinics and if they are asked to do something for the country like being part of one of these plethora of enquiries they get paid extra for that.

I blame the treaty of 1920. Swearing an oath to a foreign monarch ensured the people who went on the establish the institutions of the state were either liars or traitors or both.

Snow Garden

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Have you ever actually tried to get a job in the public sector?

Your claim is, to be frank, utter bollocks.

Yes, several years ago and I am still in it. And believe it or not, I used contacts to get in.

bizidea

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's always great to have a self-appointed expert on tap on Boards whenever you need one.



Have you ever actually tried to get a job in the public sector?

Your claim is, to be frank, utter bollocks.

Nepotism is rife in Ireland all right, but in the private sector, and family owned businesses in particular. The owner's son always gets a responsible job, no matter how thick or useless he is, and anyone who crosses him may as well just resign.

Irish SMEs are miserable cûnts to work for, in general, and I think their incompetence and tight-fistedness is a major factor in holding our domestic economy back - we can't all depend on the multinationals or the public sector to find decent paying jobs.


I think Naughten is a case of severe and utter stupidity rather than corruption. It bumped up the average IQ of the government so no loss.

Hate to tell you but snowgarden hit the nail on the head

CalamariFritti

Not first hand in Ireland, but I have it from a business man that I'm quite friendly with and who I would consider pretty reliable in that regard that 'donations' to local councillors still speed up certain procedures or simply make 'things' happen.

The only thing I ever experienced first hand was going to a hockey game in the US and it being impossible to get parking. But a 20 note to the security guard and I was parking in a little enclosure practically inside the stadium. I would never have had the nerve for it but the local guy who was me said this is the procedure so I chanced it. And it did work.

CalamariFritti

Giveaway wrote: »

The real corruption in this country is the many people in state employment doing Sweet FA and the many claiming social welfare when they have employment or no disability

Thats what the real corrupt people want you to believe. It's called divide and conquer.

Hotblack Desiato

Snow Garden wrote: »

Yes, several years ago and I am still in it. And believe it or not, I used contacts to get in.

Right, so where was this and was recruitment via the Public Appointments Service?

Sleeper12

L1011 wrote:

Naughten was not an FG minister.

My bad. Ex FG TD

arybvtcw0eolkf

Still waters wrote: »

Does it work for them or did you tell them jog on

Free entry usually worked, esp if they're from a local station. You want to stay in their favor for when the sh*t hits the fan and you need them.. Shouldn't happen that way, but hey you're gonna do it.

For late drinks, usually told to tip along unless its a club which is known for staff late drinks then you'd cut them some slack.

In my own job (army) I've never seen anything even close to dodgy. We're a professional disciplined force, it just wouldn't happen (either at home or oversea's).

Whatever about the mocking public servants get, and the army takes its share. I can say hand on heart that at home and oversea's we serve to the highest standards possible.. One thing about every Irish soldier at home and abroad we're proud to represent the country and wear the Irish flag with a lot of pride because we do a damned good job with little or no recognition, and seldom do we look for it.

Outlaw Pete

This docu was made over 15 years ago but I think a lot of the examples of cheating discussed still goes on today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljC5m0XJF_U

arctictree

From what I have seen about the current planning process is that politicians have no say anymore in the decision making process. They can only be advised why a decision was made. There used to be a method where they could overturn a planning decision but that's gone.

Andrew00

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This docu was made over 15 years ago but I think a lot of the examples of cheating discussed still goes on today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljC5m0XJF_U

Brillaint documentary this

troyzer

When I was living in Albania I saw it everywhere.

I had to send a parcel home at one point so I pottered down to the post office and there was always a plain clothes guy inside with a sub machine gun. I assumed he was a cop.

I looked at the prices, weighed the parcel and counted it out but the woman behind the counter didn't speak English and was trying to tell me something. Eventually I figured out that the price was actually the old one and the real one was 10% higher.

So I paid it and the woman immediately handed the extra to the guy with the gun. He was a Mafioso hired by the post office franchisee to protect the cash on pension day and took his cut from every transaction.

It was remarkably transparent. Corruption in Albania is so endemic and organised crime so widespread that there's effectively no petty crime.

You could quite easily leave your door open all day without any fear. Especially as the rich foreigner.

the_pen_turner

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's always great to have a self-appointed expert on tap on Boards whenever you need one.



Have you ever actually tried to get a job in the public sector?

Your claim is, to be frank, utter bollocks.

Nepotism is rife in Ireland all right, but in the private sector, and family owned businesses in particular. The owner's son always gets a responsible job, no matter how thick or useless he is, and anyone who crosses him may as well just resign.

Irish SMEs are miserable cûnts to work for, in general, and I think their incompetence and tight-fistedness is a major factor in holding our domestic economy back - we can't all depend on the multinationals or the public sector to find decent paying jobs.


I think Naughten is a case of severe and utter stupidity rather than corruption. It bumped up the average IQ of the government so no loss.

he is actually very accurate.
a lot of those jobs are filled way before the job is advertised. i have seen i several times in the last few years. i appplied for 2 of them and didnt bother on a few more. each time i asked around and was told who was getting the job. every one of them was right. 2 were in schools , 2 in coucil a few more in other guvernment agengyies.
believe what you want but it happens a lot.

Stovepipe

@makikomi, I was in the DF myself, in the 80s and 90s and the amount of theft that went on was eye-watering, especially of rations. The catering system was rotten to the core. As for things like contracts for services and supply, that was also rotten. I recall one company wanting to supply a certain type of gun, that had a special application and they took in several Officers who had retired and suddenly, they got the contract. When it came to vehicle contracts, certain senior officers began to recieve new cars, when the favoured brand of truck was changed in favour of the company that made trucks and cars..........as for the Gardai, a petrol station near where I work is "known" to be under unofficial Garda protection, as it has been noticed that it seems to feed a huge amount of Gardai. It was raided once by criminals and they were caught in a miraculously short time and it has never been touched since, despite it handling a huge cash flow.......what gives Ireland the appearance of not being corrupt is that the average person does not have to routinely bribe a Garda / soldier / civil servant /college lecturer / teacher / town planner to do their job. By and large, they do their job without bribery, unlike in many countries, where bribery is as natural as breathing. Ireland's corruption is of a softer variety; a sportsman getting a cushy job or planning permission or a publican's license because he's a star on a county team; nepotism in the Gardai, Defence forces, Aer Lingus, ESB, OPW, BNM and a host of other organisations, as a given; when an employer has a vacancy and gets a call asking him to "look after" a son or daughter from someone's family because they are prominent in the Gah or farming or medicine or even just because the candidate is from "our" parish and you'd hate to give the job to anyone else, even if they are better qualified or experienced.......as an example of witnessing corruption, I saw and heard a painting contractor, who was in a queue up to the door of a foreman's Land Cruiser, ask for the painting contract for three blocks of apartments going up. He said that he would paint out "the lot, for one apartment". They shook hands and he was told, "Start Monday and see me". None of the twenty odd people around batted an eyelid, as they all had wish lists. We like to think that we are clean, but we Irish are as corrupt as anyone.

AndrewJRenko

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

In my own job (army) I've never seen anything even close to dodgy. We're a professional disciplined force, it just wouldn't happen (either at home or oversea's).

So you never heard about the lads on UN service selling their allocations of duty free booze to the local clubs? Quite a big operation at some locations, so I'm told.

AndrewJRenko

bizidea wrote: »

I will next week when I go for a job interview even though I know who will get the jobs before the interviews are even done corruption is alive and well

If you're not part of the soluw, you're part of the problem. Why would you be playing along with the game?

Outlaw Pete

Andrew00 wrote: »

Brillaint documentary this

This one is also very good. Was made around six years later (a few years after the betting exchanges opened).

Buford T Justice

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Engineer's just out of college working on building site's during the boom.

Some couldn't even figure out how to open a measuring tape, signing of half built houses.

Not even knowing how long cement takes to harden, the list goes on....

I think you're confusing corruption with incompetence there.

worded

Pic re children’s hospital

Suckit

Pretty sure this was corruption.
Local family, the father is friends with a retired (still very active) TD, they have been involved in plenty of fundraisers etc. for the replacement TD.
The children were looking to buy houses around 2006 ish.
One of the offspring got on a housing list (family fairly wealthy and from a reasonably wealthy area of the locality).
Got a house on the housing list pretty quickly.
Under the agreement, they had to live there for 10 -12 years (I think) before they could ever rent it themselves or move out etc..
Within a month (after painting it and decorating it), they were renting it out.
Using the income from that, they got on another half-ownership type list (within a year) and moved in and lived there.
This decent sized house was suspected of having pyrite in the foundations. Moved out for a couple of months to get house sorted and stayed in parents while claiming hotel money (meh).
Never moved back in.
Struck a deal with the local council to rent it to them for xx years at price (I think was also under some sort of agreement of terms under half-ownership that could not be rented), and went in to bank and got 'another' mortgage for an apartment (anything else would be taking the p*ss).
Three properties (that I know of), and while this all was happening, was in a mediocre job, with basic qualifications and lost first then second job.
Other offspring also got a property, (on an affordable housing block) but I can't say for definite if it was one, also rented from an early stage, and they haven't lived there for a long time.

I felt like posting this in the "how does someone in their 30's afford a house" thread a few times. Saw this thread tonight.

StupidLikeAFox

Heard a story about some banking deal where a bank manager arranged a top up loan for a developer, knowing he was going under/into nama, for a kick back for himself. A victimless crime of course! Third hand but reliable enough I think.

wally79

Experienced it very recently

Went to the bank to apply for a mortgage and the well dressed lady, without even a hint of subtlety, told me I’d need a 10% “deposit” to get a mortgage.

From speaking to others I was lucky as some were charged up to 20%. I got some kind of introductory offer designed to pull you into the web

stampydmonkey

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Have you ever actually tried to get a job in the public sector?

Your claim is, to be frank, utter bollocks.

Am have you? It is most definitely rife in the public sector. I could name 30+ people who have jobs because of who they know and not because they are the best candidate by a long shot.

Also interview positions agreed before interviews is rampant. Senior management esp...absolute bullocks!!!