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ICT Managers Civil Service

  • 13-02-2019 8:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ LisaD76


    Has anyone seen these jobs advertised?

    https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=102186

    They seem to be at Assistant Principal level. I know similar posts were offered at EO and HEO level before - Is this the first time AP recruitment has happened?

    Qualifications and Experience seem quite varied ... would anyone know if there is much movement on quals / experience or how they assess your qualification to determine it meets the required.

    Thanks.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ ifElseThen


    Will be applying for this myself. 13 year ICT experience, mostly in the dev stream. Working as a dev lead atm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭ Mango Joe


    Hi All,

    I'm based in the Midwest and this says the jobs will primarily be in Dublin.

    - If you were successful then how long does the panel stay in place for?

    I seem to remember from researching this previously that they scrap these panels and restart the whole process after some time?

    Also whats the likelihood these jobs will be given to people who already have years of public service under their belt? ie Does an outside have a chance?

    Basically wondering if its worth going to the trouble of applying...

    Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ ifElseThen


    I have a friend working in a gov dept contracting for a mgmt consultancy and this position was mailed around internally today too all the staff in the dept.
    I know some people from the same mgmt consultancy firm who switched to take up AP and PO roles.

    So likely some internal candidates are lined up for sure, which is smart given they'd already have a headstart on the internal systems etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    ifElseThen wrote: »
    I have a friend working in a gov dept contracting for a mgmt consultancy and this position was mailed around internally today too all the staff in the dept.
    I know some people from the same mgmt consultancy firm who switched to take up AP and PO roles.

    So likely some internal candidates are lined up for sure, which is smart given they'd already have a headstart on the internal systems etc.
    It is through the PAS so they would have to go through the normal independent procedures surely, with a panel of interviewers from different areas if they get to an interview stage.


    Its hard to know how long a panel lasts sometimes about 2 years I have heard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ ifElseThen


    Ah yes they'd have to apply like everyone else, but I guess the internal experience would stand to them, especially if they were already held in regard, had worked on successful projects etc...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    ifElseThen wrote: »
    Ah yes they'd have to apply like everyone else, but I guess the internal experience would stand to them, especially if they were already held in regard, had worked on successful projects etc...
    Possibly but my point is the panel doing the interviewing would be unlikely/I dont think they are allowed to be, from that department.


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭ Bobby04


    If PAS are running it then it'll be impartial. Yes existing internal candidates could possibly hit the ground running a bit better than external candidates, but at the same time, external candidates can bring a new perspective and lease of life to the role. So I would absolutely say externals have every bit as much chance as anyone. And surely there'll be screening tests so that'll potentially weed out lots of weak or aspirational internal candidates. There's such demand for ICT skilled staff that I'd expect PAS (and most departments) are hoping to see lots of externals applying and making the cut.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 irumudikkilli


    LisaD76 wrote: »
    Has anyone seen these jobs advertised?

    They seem to be at Assistant Principal level. I know similar posts were offered at EO and HEO level before - Is this the first time AP recruitment has happened?

    Thanks.

    The HEO level is also advertised:

    https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=102208


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭ Opal Great Tugboat


    Tempted but I lack any public sector experience. Have 10 years development experience plus an additional 4 years (the most recent 4) as a software development manager, but all private sector.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 irumudikkilli


    Tempted but I lack any public sector experience. Have 10 years development experience plus an additional 4 years (the most recent 4) as a software development manager, but all private sector.

    Go for it :) I did not have any experience in public sector either, but got placed as an AO. I found the whole process fair and impartial. The application forms are very long, but as long as you match your experience with the competencies they are looking for, you will be fine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ LisaD76


    I’ve applied so fingers crossed. They weren’t too helpful when I queried qualifications but it won’t hurt to be in the running anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ JohnjoWex


    Look like really interesting roles, anyone in a position to make predictions or speculate on the number of jobs that might be appointed, or the selection process?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ JohnjoWex


    LisaD76 wrote: »
    I’ve applied so fingers crossed. They weren’t too helpful when I queried qualifications but it won’t hurt to be in the running anyway.

    Best of luck


  • Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭ trigger26


    JohnjoWex wrote: »
    Look like really interesting roles, anyone in a position to make predictions or speculate on the number of jobs that might be appointed, or the selection process?

    I think some existing APs will transfer to ICT stream and heo ICT stream in place will do well. I thinks it great ap level is being rolled out


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭ doc22


    Bobby04 wrote: »
    If PAS are running it then it'll be impartial. Yes existing internal candidates could possibly hit the ground running a bit better than external candidates, but at the same time, external candidates can bring a new perspective and lease of life to the role. So I would absolutely say externals have every bit as much chance as anyone. And surely there'll be screening tests so that'll potentially weed out lots of weak or aspirational internal candidates. There's such demand for ICT skilled staff that I'd expect PAS (and most departments) are hoping to see lots of externals applying and making the cut.

    What do you mean by internals? consultants or civil servants? Impartial:pac: the interview board will be compromised of existing civil servants who will favour existing staff, in most cases theres internal informal succession plans in place with EOs being placed in areas where HEOs are expected to leave.There was a recent open PO position going and would you believe out of all the applications for the role the best person worked in the office already;). Open external candidates can be placed in the more difficult areas too, and with regards lease of life most civil servant IT deparments are stuffed with a constantly changing range of staff from IT consultancies anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,835 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    doc22 wrote: »
    What do you mean by internals? consultants or civil servants? Impartial:pac: the interview board will be compromised of existing civil servants who will favour existing staff, in most cases theres internal informal succession plans in place with EOs being placed in areas where HEOs are expected to leave.There was a recent open PO position going and would you believe out of all the applications for the role the best person worked in the office already;). Open external candidates can be placed in the more difficult areas too, and with regards lease of life most civil servant IT deparments are stuffed with a constantly changing range of staff from IT consultancies anyway



    ah well you have your excuses lined up anyway.


    as probably needs to be on a sticky at this stage, PAS competitions are impartial to a fault.

    whether a little bit of jostling can occur after people get on the panel to see if a person already in situ in a dept stay there (or don't!) is a totally different question to whether or not the actual competition is in any way impartial.

    but as i said......you seem to have your mind made up already


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    What is the process for a position like this, do you apply and interview for a job or do you have to do a test or do you do an interview to go on a panel in case a job comes up


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,835 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    Clareman wrote: »
    What is the process for a position like this, do you apply and interview for a job or do you have to do a test or do you do an interview to go on a panel in case a job comes up

    you have to fill out a real pain of a form setting out relevant qualifications and experience and answering several competency-based questions

    it varies at that stage depending on what PAS might see as the need for shortlisting vs the size of panel likely to be required, but shortlisting, online tests, e-tray exercises, interviews (sometimes comprising presentation) all on the list of possibles.

    a specific comp like this, interview based on the form submitted is certain, the number of applications will really decide what route PAS takes to whittle down the numbers as required

    edit- sorry, i think yr question was more specific. youd be placed on a panel and jobs come up in order. there *may* be a little room in the background for moving and shaking based on (as stated) whether you currently work for a department etc.

    you will already have selected locations youd consider so offers will go out based on order on each panel.

    there's two streams, software and infrastructure (essentially) and in an ideal world theyd look at actual specifics required for the roles that come up but...alas....your number is your number!


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    That sounds like a right pain, lot to be said for recruitment consultants and 1 interview


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,835 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    Clareman wrote: »
    That sounds like a right pain, lot to be said for recruitment consultants and 1 interview

    ha i dont disagree!


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  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    snoopsheep wrote: »
    ha i dont disagree!

    I've never worked in the Civil service or applied for a job there but from the outside in there seems a lot of unnecessary paperwork


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭ Bobby04


    doc22 wrote: »
    What do you mean by internals? consultants or civil servants? Impartial:pac: the interview board will be compromised of existing civil servants who will favour existing staff, in most cases theres internal informal succession plans in place with EOs being placed in areas where HEOs are expected to leave.There was a recent open PO position going and would you believe out of all the applications for the role the best person worked in the office already;). Open external candidates can be placed in the more difficult areas too, and with regards lease of life most civil servant IT deparments are stuffed with a constantly changing range of staff from IT consultancies anyway

    You've it all figured out


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ JohnjoWex


    snoopsheep wrote: »
    you have to fill out a real pain of a form setting out relevant qualifications and experience and answering several competency-based questions

    it varies at that stage depending on what PAS might see as the need for shortlisting vs the size of panel likely to be required, but shortlisting, online tests, e-tray exercises, interviews (sometimes comprising presentation) all on the list of possibles.

    a specific comp like this, interview based on the form submitted is certain, the number of applications will really decide what route PAS takes to whittle down the numbers as required

    edit- sorry, i think yr question was more specific. youd be placed on a panel and jobs come up in order. there *may* be a little room in the background for moving and shaking based on (as stated) whether you currently work for a department etc.

    you will already have selected locations youd consider so offers will go out based on order on each panel.

    there's two streams, software and infrastructure (essentially) and in an ideal world theyd look at actual specifics required for the roles that come up but...alas....your number is your number!



    That's a bit concerning to be honest, they'd hardly place someone from one stream in a role which is primarily focussed on work in the other stream, would they?

    Any thoughts on what might be the first step in the assessment process, and when one might hear something back on next steps?


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭✭ Max Mustermann


    JohnjoWex wrote: »
    [/B]


    That's a bit concerning to be honest, they'd hardly place someone from one stream in a role which is primarily focussed on work in the other stream, would they?

    Any thoughts on what might be the first step in the assessment process, and when one might hear something back on next steps?

    No, you apply for one or both streams and they will form separate panels for each.

    I'm hoping we'll get shortlisting results next Friday 15th if they're going to have interviews in March/ April as it said in the information booklet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭ trigger26


    Was watching my mailbox closely on Friday @5pm! Hopefully we'll get something this week as it was a short run of a window to get in and as Max pointed out the interviews are to be held March/April


  • Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭ trigger26


    Just realized I left a gap in my employment history section, its was 3 years of work not related to IT but in the middle of my IT career. Instructions clearly says leave no gaps so would this enough of a slip to be binned?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭ TaurenDruid


    trigger26 wrote: »
    Just realized I left a gap in my employment history section, its was 3 years of work not related to IT but in the middle of my IT career. Instructions clearly says leave no gaps so would this enough of a slip to be binned?

    You can never tell with PAS. You're also not supposed to be admitted to the supervised test centre without photo ID, invitation letter and two passport photos but I've seen someone admitted who'd got their days mixed up and literally ran from their office without bringing any of that...


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭✭ Max Mustermann


    trigger26 wrote: »
    Just realized I left a gap in my employment history section, its was 3 years of work not related to IT but in the middle of my IT career. Instructions clearly says leave no gaps so would this enough of a slip to be binned?

    I did the same thing on a previous competition and they just asked me to clarify at the start of the interview, which was fine and I passed, but that was an internal competition. I think the continuity thing is just to check that you were not out of work for one of many reasons that may cause concern, so it would seem very harsh to bin it for that reason.

    Hopefully today is the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭ brownbinman


    has anyone heard anything? Would've thought we'd know by now considering they were aiming for end March/April for next stage


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    has anyone heard anything? Would've thought we'd know by now considering they were aiming for end March/April for next stage
    Nothing yet.
    I am on the general AP panel, but might prefer ICT role possibly....I thought the online tests would have been sent out by now tbh.


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