3 hour marathon possible as secondary sport

heno86

I’m wondering how feasible would it be to run a 3 hour marathon with running as a secondary sport. Im 32, train 4+ days per week primarily boxing with some resistance training and limited amounts of running. I ran the marathon in October on one months training, training twice a week, doing a long run on sundays so 21, 21 , 30 32 then running the marathon 10 days later. I did it in 3:38 (also had no watch to keep any pace etc) my 5k pb is 19:01.

So with 3-4 months training, 2-3 days running and better pace keeping would it be possible for an average enough runner? Thanks

I’m aware it’s a difficult question to answer just curious if anybody in similar conditions has done it.

Kissy Lips

No, I don't think its possible. What do you weigh? I'm guessing 65kg.

heno86

Kissy Lips wrote: »

No, I don't think its possible. What do you weigh? I'm guessing 65kg.

Currently 83kg , 80 when I ran the marathon...have cut to 77kg for boxing..so this would prob be the weight I’d aim for next year

TFBubendorfer

You clearly have some talent for running if you can do a 3:38 marathon on next to no running-specific training, but the step up from a 3:38 to a sub-3 marathon is huge, and I really don't think it's realistic.

My guess is that you're a fairly fit and athletic guy, and up to a certain level you can make good gains even from non-specific training. However, for a sub-3 you'd definitely have to concentrate on running.

Murph_D

Agree completely. Not a chance on that kind of schedule. Need to make a much bigger commitment and if you get that 5k down a good bit more you’ll know you have the potential.

walshb

Young man, 32 and is fit...

Running 3.38 here has nothing to do with talent, whatever that means as regards running long distances rather “slowly..”

Bit more dedication and commitment and 3 hours very achievable. It’s just running. Put the miles and time in, and keep somewhat in shape and it’s nothing major..

Gavlor

heno86 wrote: »

I’m wondering how feasible would it be to run a 3 hour marathon with running as a secondary sport. Im 32, train 4+ days per week primarily boxing with some resistance training and limited amounts of running. I ran the marathon in October on one months training, training twice a week, doing a long run on sundays so 21, 21 , 30 32 then running the marathon 10 days later. I did it in 3:38 (also had no watch to keep any pace etc) my 5k pb is 19:01.

So with 3-4 months training, 2-3 days running and better pace keeping would it be possible for an average enough runner? Thanks

I’m aware it’s a difficult question to answer just curious if anybody in similar conditions has done it.

Of course it is, big challenge and everything will need to go to plan but not on 2 days a week running.

3 days minimum... speed session, fastish mid week 10/12 miler and a long run the weekend. Your cross training with the boxing will have to include a recovery session for your legs.

Kissy Lips

I remember running beside Ken Egan around 2009 in the lakes 10km in Blessington. This was about a year after his Olympic medal. I think he weighed about the same as yourself. iirc he did a sub 40 minute. I remember being very impressed with his time. Cant find any results prior to 2015 for that race though. He liked a pint at the time.

heno86

Thanks for the feedback. General consensus seems to be that id need go dedicate more than what I will be able/willing to for next years marathon so I may wait a year and focus on it exclusively the following year. I will probably just do the one more and I’d love to get a 3hr.(though saying that I will probably get the itch to go again 😂

average_runner

Are you a boxer?
I know a few boxers that have run a sub 3 on little running.
Boxers seem to have the fitness for it.

walshb

All the boxers I have known with real good cardio stamina in the ring have been excellent runners. It’s physiology. Wayne McCullough was a road monster..

Running and boxing definitely linked as regards cardiovascular endurance...

The running part more valuable to a boxer’s ring stamina than the other way around..

ultrapercy

The biggest barrier for you is weight. 83kgs is heavy even if you cut to 77 it's still a load to haul. It makes little difference what the weight consists of (If it's muscle or fat) as it still must be transported 26 miles.
You definitely have the potential to break 3 but it may take longer than one training cycle. It's worth giving it a go,You have good basic cardiovascular endurance but the specific marathon endurance could take a while to achieve. Good luck anyway.

walshb

I missed the weight bit....

Yes, for me this is the one area that may see you find it difficult to hit 3 hours...But it can be rectified...

Get to your ideal BMI, and then maybe some lower....

If 77 kgs is you carrying excess weight, then lower it accordingly...

There's no exact ideal weight, but the heavier the person the more they have to haul around, and over long distances this can be tough.

between 65 and 70 kgs seems fine for trying to hit 3 hours or a bit below......You could hit it weighing heavier, but maybe best to get as low as possible, while maintaining health.

heno86

average_runner wrote: »

Are you a boxer?
I know a few boxers that have run a sub 3 on little running.
Boxers seem to have the fitness for it.

Yeh I’m only novice but training a few years. I felt the other training stood to me fitness wise but was just a lack of specific leg endurance for running, plus my weight and not having a clue what I was doing haha not wearing a watch in hindsight was ridiculous but I just wanted to make sure I could survive the first marathon and just had a vague notion of following 3:30 pacer (I actually thought I was just behind him the whole race)

heno86

ultrapercy wrote: »

The biggest barrier for you is weight. 83kgs is heavy even if you cut to 77 it's still a load to haul. It makes little difference what the weight consists of (If it's muscle or fat) as it still must be transported 26 miles.

Yeh definitely, 77kg was me below 10% body fat but I’d be training with weights a few times a week so would have to drop muscle mass to go any lower. I felt the weight would be a big thing and made an effort to drop from 83 to 80 for the race but it was too short a time span plus actually getting the few long runs in and refueling

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

Young man, 32 and is fit...

Running 3.38 here has nothing to do with talent, whatever that means as regards running long distances rather “slowly..”

Bit more dedication and commitment and 3 hours very achievable. It’s just running. Put the miles and time in, and keep somewhat in shape and it’s nothing major..

Totally agree of course you can do it. It’s no huge shakes if you’ve got decent athleticism as is. If you consult a coach they can advise you on your training so that your three runs are actually benefitting you. Be careful your boxing sessions aren’t slaughters

CPTM

This would definitely be a training log/diary that I would like to follow on boards if you did decide to go for it OP.....

heno86

Appreciate the responses, I think I may continue with 2 runs a week (maintenance) one long distance and a shorter more intense day more applicable to boxing (intervals, hills, fast 2-5k etc) and maybe look at slowly dropping some weight /weight training and keep my options open for next year. If it looks attainable and my numbers improve I’ll up my training closer to the race and go for it..

Murph_D

heno86 wrote: »

Appreciate the responses, I think I may continue with 2 runs a week (maintenance) one long distance and a shorter more intense day more applicable to boxing (intervals, hills, fast 2-5k etc) and maybe look at slowly dropping some weight /weight training and keep my options open for next year. If it looks attainable and my numbers improve I’ll up my training closer to the race and go for it..

Could be wrong, but I doubt if that approach will give you the required endurance. And you also need speed endurance - that 5k time would need to be a good bit lower to suggest a sub-3 is a realistic aspiration.

heno86

Murph_D wrote: »

Could be wrong, but I doubt if that approach will give you the required endurance. And you also need speed endurance - that 5k time would need to be a good bit lower to suggest a sub-3 is a realistic aspiration.

Hey, yeh a month before the marathon the longest I had run was a 12km (hell and back so not even consistent) and the 21,21,30, 32 I did were all very slow just to get time on my legs(and not get injured) . Do you not think if I improved my aerobic capacity and leg endurance and speed over that kind of distance it would leave me in a good position to ramp up the training closer to the run? (Add middle distance work) Maybe 4/5 months out? This is why I asked the question initially whether there is any point continuing the long runs because they’re not applicable to anything else for me obviously but running a marathon. yeh I agree with 5k time I think I could get that a good bit lower, would you say 18ish?

Murph_D

Why don’t you head over to the Sub-3 support thread and look at the wealth of info and advice there?

squinn2912

It’s very hard to judge a marathon performer on a 5k. I know a fella who had an injury and he ran once a week for an entire programme and hit 2:57 after having aimed unsuccessfully at the sub3 before. Now he is a runner but that’s what the programme was. Other two days were circuit training. That was his week. He’s not running at all now though

Chivito550

Caroline Wozniaki ran 3:26 with it being her secondary sport. A male tennis player of similar standing could go sub 3 following the same approach as her. It definitely is possible.

Probably looking at an elite level athlete in the primary sport though.

walshb

I know many non elites in sport that could do it..

This is running. Not skiing or tennis. It’s very very very basic...

Young, fit, healthy and decent physiological makeup...

No need whatsoever to need to be an elite in the secondary sport...

Put the miles in and train and prepare well and very achievable...

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

I know many non elites in sport that could do it..

This is running. Not skiing or tennis. It’s very very very basic...

Young, fit, healthy and decent physiological makeup...

No need whatsoever to need to be an elite in the secondary sport...

Put the miles in and train and prepare well and very achievable...

Of course. But if he isn’t getting the miles in and his primary sport takes focus then it becomes quite difficult.

Who knows though. Wozniaki didn’t run more than 13 miles in one go so what do I know!

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

Of course. But if he isn’t getting the miles in and his primary sport takes focus then it becomes quite difficult.

Who knows though. Wozniaki didn’t run more than 13 miles in one go so what do I know!

I get you....

Murph_D

squinn2912 wrote: »

It’s very hard to judge a marathon performer on a 5k. I know a fella who had an injury and he ran once a week for an entire programme and hit 2:57 after having aimed unsuccessfully at the sub3 before. Now he is a runner but that’s what the programme was. Other two days were circuit training. That was his week. He’s not running at all now though

Fair enough, but what WAS his 5k time, as a matter of interest? Most of us, myself included, run marathons far poorer than our 5k would suggest is our potential. In the OPs case, with little endurance work, the fall-off is likely to be even greater (as his marathon PB already suggests).

walshb

No need for a fast 5 k to ensure 3 hrs..

Two completely different races.

19 mins 5k can still see a 3 hrs marathon..

5 k is a “fast” distance race...marathon is a slow distance race..

If you can run 5 k in 19 mins, you have enough to work with as regards getting the miles into the legs and simply building endurance..

rom

Local guy I know was european champ in a similar sport and ran a 1:22 half without any run specific training. He was running close to 50 miles a week in just warmup pre training session runs at all easy pace. I think he would struggle over the longer distance though but only because he has no weekly long run is all.

squinn2912

Murph_D wrote: »

Fair enough, but what WAS his 5k time, as a matter of interest? Most of us, myself included, run marathons far poorer than our 5k would suggest is our potential. In the OPs case, with little endurance work, the fall-off is likely to be even greater (as his marathon PB already suggests).

Not sure about 5k but 10k around 38 mins maybe a bit quicker. I wouldn’t read into the 5k too much the op should enter some 10k races or do a gym to better gauge his chances

Murph_D

squinn2912 wrote: »

Not sure about 5k but 10k around 38 mins maybe a bit quicker. I wouldn’t read into the 5k too much the op should enter some 10k races or do a gym to better gauge his chances

Well obviously if the OP had a sub-38 10k he would have more info to go on (his 5k is proportionally a good bit slower than that). We are making the same point here in slightly different ways.

And of course we are only talking about potential here. You can get away with undertrainingmover short distances (up to HM possibly). Much harder to bluff the marathon, although there are always the odd (rare) exceptions.

robinph

Even if you can't make the sub 3 at the moment while focusing on the boxing, no reason why you won't be able to once you drop the boxing down the pecking order of priorities in a few years time. Clearly have the potential and time is on your side.

El CabaIIo

walshb wrote: »

All the boxers I have known with real good cardio stamina in the ring have been excellent runners. It’s physiology. Wayne McCullough was a road monster

A bit off-topic but speaking of Belfast and boxing road monsters. Chrisanto Espana who was based out Eastwoods gym in Belfast ran a 2:16 marathon a couple of months before he knocked out Meldrick Taylor for the World title. He used to run road races for money to support his boxing career.

squinn2912

Murph_D wrote: »

Well obviously if the OP had a sub-38 10k he would have more info to go on (his 5k is proportionally a good bit slower than that). We are making the same point here in slightly different ways.

And of course we are only talking about potential here. You can get away with undertrainingmover short distances (up to HM possibly). Much harder to bluff the marathon, although there are always the odd (rare) exceptions.

I meant HM it autocorrected to gym! I agree with your point. I know plenty of fellas who I've struggled to keep with in 10k or HM and then they wilt to something like 3:20 (nothing wrong with that but when you're aiming for sub3) for the marathon. They'll all tell you the gods are against them but you need to look at your training first. If this guy would do two runs a week sensibly along with the boxing training then I could see him do it. Even one run. My thinking is that the one run would need to be a long and brisk one at around goal pace. The boxing sessions then need to fit into the run(s) so that you're not punctured trying to run marathon paced runs all the time.

walshb

Boxing specific training is not going to make much difference here as regards running. Running needs pretty much miles put in. All the bag work and sparring and skipping etc will make little difference to the goal. It can help a small bit, of course, but the poster needs to be on the road notching up the miles..

Dedicated running is more beneficial to boxers and their training than dedicated boxing training is to runners and their training...

Lazare

walshb wrote: »

Dedicated running is more beneficial to boxers and their training than dedicated boxing training is to runners and their training...

Good article today from Cathal Dennehy making a similar point..

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics/how-sporting-success-can-be-traced-back-to-sound-athletics-roots-37802223.html

walshb

Sports like GAA, soccer, tennis etc can all benefit and trace roots to the likes of sprinting, both short and long sprints. Soccer and GAA and rugby also benefitting from middle distance running as well as the shorter more explisive sprints..

walshb

El CabaIIo wrote: »

A bit off-topic but speaking of Belfast and boxing road monsters. Chrisanto Espana who was based out Eastwoods gym in Belfast ran a 2:16 marathon a couple of months before he knocked out Meldrick Taylor for the World title. He used to run road races for money to support his boxing career.

That’s a brilliant time...

The great Rocky Marciano was known as a demon for both running and walking everywhere...and we all know of his amazing ring endurance..and he was a slow plodder when running; all about getting the miles in.