Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Spear

Seems like a far more TOS/TNG style encapsulated story.

It also seems a cheaper than usual episode as a result.

And 4 episodes into the season, and the main story isn't advancing either.

liamtech

mixed bag with this one - im a pro-discovery guy but this was very average to me - maybe im alone but the Tilly/Spore/Lifeform plot is not engaging me at all this season

It did feel like a 'Single story' as opposed to being connected to the arc - kinda like those episodes in Enterprises 3rd season where they went off the Xindi arc for a 'single' story and merely mentioned the xindi at the beginning and the end - it was BETTER than those ENT episodes though

The bit where they started singing did get me a bit - have to admit that, perhaps its cause i recently broke up with someone, but it was emotional - kinda like O Brien and Cpt Maxwell on board the Pheonix singing the minstrel boy -

Spear

I liked the first two, and I saw the utility in the third, but this one just prolongs the season needlessly.

There's some nice touches hidden in the details i.e. the drill sequence mimics the real practice of having brain surgery patients sing or perform similar tasks to indicate problems. Or the way they studiously avoid giving Number One a name, just as with Roddenberrys original script. And Saru's description of his time as a refugee seems to parallel the US's current immigration issues.

But two thirds of the episode, the main blob storyline, seems like filler.

And next weeks episode

doesn't advance the main story either, and is Tilly centric

FutureGuy

Spear wrote: »

I liked the first two, and I saw the utility in the third, but this one just prolongs the season needlessly.

There's some nice touches hidden in the details i.e. the drill sequence mimics the real practice of having brain surgery patients sing or perform similar tasks to indicate problems. Or the way they studiously avoid giving Number One a name, just as with Roddenberrys original script. And Saru's description of his time as a refugee seems to parallel the US's current immigration issues.

But two thirds of the episode, the main blob storyline, seems like filler.

And next weeks episode

doesn't advance the main story either, and is Tilly centric

I don’t see the Tilly stuff as filler at all. They are clearly explaining why Starfleet aren’t using the Spore drive in other series.

Spear

FutureGuy wrote: »

I don’t see the Tilly stuff as filler at all. They are clearly explaining why Starfleet aren’t using the Spore drive in other series.

No, nor do I, that's the only part that's advancing at all. By the blob I meant the larger one, not the spore derived one.

Omg saru
Omg tilly
What's gonna happen!!!

I don't think i fully got the story with saru
Do they just all happen to kill themselves before the ganglia would have fallen out naturally?

Ps i looove jett reno

FutureGuy

bluewolf wrote: »

Omg saru
Omg tilly
What's gonna happen!!!

I don't think i fully got the story with saru
Do they just all happen to kill themselves before the ganglia would have fallen out naturally?

Ps i looove jett reno

They are clearly caught up in something that is manufactured and they are being preyed upon culturally, mentally and physically. I think the idea that if they don’t kill themselves when their ganglia protrude, they’ll suffer a worse fate has been wrongfully conditioned into them by by the other species. A species that may actually be travelling there or are at least very advanced. It looks like their ganglia falling off might be their species reaching maturity and that they are being denied that.

Oooh reaching maturity. Okay cool i am with it now

Spear

bluewolf wrote: »

Omg saru
Omg tilly
What's gonna happen!!!

I don't think i fully got the story with saru
Do they just all happen to kill themselves before the ganglia would have fallen out naturally?

Ps i looove jett reno

You should check out the Short Trek about Saru.

A species called the Ba'Huul (or something like that) is much more technologically advanced and preys upon them, to the point where it's institutionalised as their religion. Groups of Kelpians gather when they enter that state at beacons are are transported away. What becomes of them isn't revealed.

Sad Professor

A lot of good stuff in this episode. Really liked Tig Notaro's character and her interactions with Stamets. I didn't think the Saru storyline really worked though. Felt tacked on and heavy-handed.

OldMrBrennan83

That was my favourite yet.

JeffKenna

So a whole race of people have been killing themselves for no reason?

Goodshape

Really enjoyed that! Good Star Trek!




Was sort of hoping before the end that Saru would be gone :-/. Honestly I wouldn't miss him too much – his species seems daft, and it would allow Burnham to move up to the second-in-command position she acts like she's in anyway. Although looks like they're going to mess with his character a bit at least.

The two main stories, the dying sphere and the spore thingy, were great. Felt like proper Star Trek – with a movie budget and an adult sensibility at times.

Lots of good character stuff throughout.

And they're dragging out the season's big story arc (The Search for Spock Jr.) and I'm not at all bothered. Nice to have these little adventures.

pixelburp

I think that translator breakdown on the bridge was my favourite scene in Discovery so far, great fun and very on point - original to boot; I don't remember Trek ever doing anything with the translator before. Plus allowed Saru to demonstrate his abilities (while admonishing others for their lack of multilingualism)

A bit overstuffed again but more organic this time by dint of it all happening on the ship. Another Trek staple - cosmic thing breaks the ship - but nicely melded with the characters of Saru and Burnham.

I hear the complaints about Spock, but honestly there was enough going with the A plot, Saru and Tilly to kinda make the Search for Spock a distraction.

"Jet Reno" though, what a name. Tig Notaro sparring with Stamets reminds that a little friendly spikiness between the crew would be nice (though again, props for involving them in scenes once more, the ready room scene was a good piece of texture)

Slydice

Felt like an inbetween episode.

JeffKenna

JeffKenna wrote: »

So a whole race of people have been killing themselves for no reason?

Food?

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

Felt like an inbetween episode.

Then I'm happy for many more in between episodes

CastorTroy

Can we expect Saru to get cocky now? I'm sure we'll see what's happening the Kelpians at some point in the future.

As much as I like Tilly's taste in music, I always find it funny when centuries into the future there doesn't seem to have been any recent Earth songs. Though was it this or Enterprise or maybe something else that previously referred to 20th century music like The Beatles as classical? Found it funny when they did.

Nice callback to the first episode of the season with Linus having the cold.

Slydice

I'm half expecting him to liberate the Kelpians

Maybe they'll start looking like another race we're used to seeing in the series set further on.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Then I'm happy for many more in between episodes

Yes. Most previous trek seasons were all in between episodes.

good episode. The dying sphere was proper old school Trek. The Spock arc I can take or leave though.

Rawr

Slydice wrote: »

I'm half expecting him to liberate the Kelpians

Maybe they'll start looking like another race we're used to seeing in the series set further on.

I'd actually watch this as a series in it's own right. Saru is one of my favourites and a story arc / mini series focused around the fight to free his people could make for some very good television (if done right).

Although there's talk of spinning off other Trek shows such as S31 and some kind of animated "Lower Decks" show...I'd much rather see them following Saru off on his quest.

They could of course do this in the main Discovery show too...but that seems to be mostly about the Search for Spock right now.


Some things I liked about the episode:

Number One: They cast her pretty well. Has a similar feel as Majel Barrett's take on the character.

Tilly: They toned her down a notch in this episode. I appreciate that.

Jett: She's growing one me, I'd much prefer her as Chief Engineer on this show.

Things I didn't like:

Stametts: I know he's supposed to off balance a bit due to spores and the death of Dr. Boyfriend. But while he was an interesting character in S1, in this season there's something very *off* about him or the way he is being acted. He just keeps pressing my "creepy" sense. Feels like it is time to retire this character and swap him with Jett.

The Score: There was something noticeably wrong with the pacing of the music and of the scenes it was attached to. Some low-tempo scenes were being bombed out with high-tempo action music and it really distracted from the moment a few times. I've noticed this on other shows too and I'd really wish TV producers would pay better attention to the score. This never seemed to be a problem back in the 90's.

To be honest, I have been doing a bit of a late 80/90s throwback and, while there was a good score, christ but it was too loud.

Nice quiet scene needing some soft music?
Director: Let's ramp up the orchestral volume to 11 there please...

TheIrishGrover

Pretty good. Pretty classic Trek. Felt like it was setting up many storylines:

• Huge database of new knowledge
• Tilly cocoon
• Saru's new mission

Liked

• Number One. I know she was only in it very briefly but pretty cool. Would imagine that we should see more of her given that she is a reasonably high-profile actor.
• The Saurian character. (Can't remember his name).
• Some of the new engineer banter ("Weird dream: I was a drummer for Prince")
• Saru's resolve at the end. I wonder is this going to be a new Saru. Are we gonna find out that his people were culled immediately prior to losing their ganglia because they were some crazy/crazy-powerful species post ganglia-loss. (He certainly seemed to be more confident/aggressive in sickbay at the end)
• Nice little funny/cop-out (Depending on your POV) explanation on the lack of holograms on Enterprise.

Didn't Like/Meh

• Some of the new engineer banter. Really like the character but dial her back juuuust a bit. De-Poochy-ify her about 5%
• Why did May (Mei?) Suddenly become Jamaican when speaking through Tilly?
• The whole Tilly/Spore/cocoon thing was a bit rushed.
• The closeup of navigation and tactical consoles. I get it, they wanted it to be a bit more of a current aesthetic but they over-did it. I mean it was practically "Press here for shields" and "Go-faster-now button"

I think we will be seeing "Previously on Discovery" flashbacks to this episode for seasons to come.

flazio

May had that Caribbean accent, (I've seen it referred to as from Trinidad) in the last episode. Can't say I noticed it in the younger version, must watch back.

pixelburp

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Liked

• Nice little funny/cop-out (Depending on your POV) explanation on the lack of holograms on Enterprise.

.

I liked it, might be a quibble for some over canon backpedaling (and I was one who defended holograms presence in an ostensible prequel), but at least it felt like an emotional retcon rather than a blank "we're doing this and will never speak of it again." I mean, Pike's kinda right, it is like talking to ghosts when you think about it.

Re. Tilly's accent, they layered the voice of Mae, speaking the same lines, over that of Tilly.

Acosta

This and the previous episode was brilliant. Really enjoying it now.

PhiloCypher

Sad Professor wrote: »

A lot of good stuff in this episode. Really liked Tig Notaro's character and her interactions with Stamets. I didn't think the Saru storyline really worked though. Felt tacked on and heavy-handed.

Yeh I thought it was a bit overwrought. I get that they had been crewmates for something like 7 years on the Shenzhou and now Discovery but we've only been privy to a very small amount of that, as such I feel they played this card a little too early in the series. It also doesn't help that Sonequa Martin-Green tends to play things over earnestly whether it's a personal log or a scene like this .

All that being said the story line does open up some fascinating future stories possibilities, so it might just have been worth playing the card a little early in order to explore them.

Slydice

Rawr wrote: »

Slydice wrote: »

I'm half expecting him to liberate the Kelpians

Maybe they'll start looking like another race we're used to seeing in the series set further on.

I'd actually watch this as a series in it's own right. Saru is one of my favourites and a story arc / mini series focused around the fight to free his people could make for some very good television (if done right).

Sold! Also authors from their world must go on to write books which become literary works referenced by the Maquis centuries later.

TheValeyard

I liked it. Another good mix of old and new Trek.

Saru is a great character. Lot of depth and mystery to him.

Think we're on the way to wrapping up the spore drive in a believable manner.

The mysteries living asteroid probe thing was awesome..

AMKC

Acosta wrote: »

This and the previous episode was brilliant. Really enjoying it now.

You men episode 2 don't you. Episode 3 was a slog to get through.

Some difference between this episode and episode 3.

I really did not like the 3rd episode but this was much better, Still not the best episode this do that to me would be episode 2.

So is Jett going to become the chief engineer now. Can't say I am mad about her. Was even surprised she was still on the ship. Surely she would be wanting to get to so me starbase and go back to whatever she was doing.

I thought the Tilly/ May bit in this was really good.

Saru was really good in this too and it will be interesting to see how he progresses now.

pixelburp

I had forgotten that Stamets isn't an engineer technically, right? So if the spores drive is removed it's hard to see a contrivance that'd believably keep him onboard (though iirc he already said he was leaving once they returned to dock). Makes sense Reno might take over as chief engineer - though Tig Nataro does a fair bit of standup I believe so who knows how they'd fit that in.

AMKC

pixelburp wrote: »

I had forgotten that Stamets isn't an engineer technically, right? So if the spores drive is removed it's hard to see a contrivance that'd believably keep him onboard (though iirc he already said he was leaving once they returned to dock). Makes sense Reno might take over as chief engineer - though Tig Nataro does a fair bit of standup I believe so who knows how they'd fit that in.

Yes that's right. I will not miss him if/when he goes. Think his character has run out of steam. Maybe he will save the ship later in the season but get killed something like that. Yes he did say that alright.
Engineering has not really been the focus of any stories yet on this compared to TOS , TNG, VOY hell even Enterprise had more happening in its engineering than Discovery. No warp core breeches or coolant leaks on Discovery yet anyway. The only other show I can think of that never really had much happen there was DS9 but then it did not have a warp core or an engineering section.

TheValeyard

I'd disagree, I'm fed up with them trying to pull a Game of Thrones and kill of main characters. I actually like Stamets. Warmed up to him. If they do have to end his storyline he will probably join the spores as some sort of Federation Ambassador and try to repair the damage he accidentally caused.

Goodshape

Hrm, Stamets is probably my favourite character on the show!

Wouldn't like to see him go and honestly don't expect him to. I didn't sense that it was even in question tbh. He's a scientist on a science ship, plenty to be getting on with.

Tig isn't a replacement; she's an engineer.

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

Hrm, Stamets is probably my favourite character on the show!

Wouldn't like to see him go and honestly don't expect him to. I didn't sense that it was even in question tbh. He's a scientist on a science ship, plenty to be getting on with.

Tig isn't a replacement; she's an engineer.

I agree with all of this

nyarlothothep

I think this episode was the final straw for me. Disco sucks. The characterisation is paper thin, I don't want to see superhero/Transformer films as TV series and that's what Discovery is, zero time for characters and where there is development it's done in the most stilted, quick let's get it over with way. The whole impetus of Disco is to get from plot point A to B in the shortest time possible. I find plot centric films/TV incredibly boring and there's not one character I've grown to like in Disco. Tilly is annoying, Burnham is boring, Saru is also annoying, Stamets is a dick. The whole Saru may die arc was predictable and when it was revealed his culture was a lie etc I was just like, omg this has been done before and better by TNG, DS9 and even Red Dwarf! How can the actors deliver their lines without grimacing. The scene between Burnham and Saru was perfunctory and lame. This isn't Star Trek, it's Abrams's perversion of Trek. I don't care about special effects, action or plot, I want meaningful stories with characters I can relate to, not blockbuster popcorn action, to hell with that. I think this is second worst Star Trek series ever, the worst goes to Voyager.

Evade

Voyager's Twisted with a dash of Elogium thrown in.


I hope that engineer doesn't stick around she's giving Tilly a run for her money as most annoying character.

Johnny Storm

IMHO it was better than the previous episode but still...

I had quite enjoyed Burnham until now - I like her occasional Kirk-style swagger - but as someone else pointed out, recently her reactions to everything are way over the top - is this a problem with the direction?

David Bowie song - no, no, no, no, no - OK song, idiotic in this context - As Spock said in a similar circumstance: "Ah... the classics" :pac:

pixelburp

Johnny Storm wrote: »

IMHO it was better than the previous episode but still...

I had quite enjoyed Burnham until now - I like her occasional Kirk-style swagger - but as someone else pointed out, recently her reactions to everything are way over the top - is this a problem with the direction?

David Bowie song - no, no, no, no, no - OK song, idiotic in this context - As Spock said in a similar circumstance: "Ah... the classics" :pac:

I read somewhere the Bowie bit was actually a known method when performing surgery on the brain: supposedly the patient is asked to sing a song, recite something personal to them etc; so any problems with speech patterns or memory is seen as a sign that something's wrong.

Johnny Storm

pixelburp wrote: »

I read somewhere the Bowie bit was actually a known method when performing surgery on the brain: supposedly the patient is asked to sing a song, recite something personal to them etc; so any problems with speech patterns or memory is seen as a sign that something's wrong.

Fair enough - but is your personal favorite song from the year 1819 or there abouts?

pixelburp

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Fair enough - but is your personal favorite song from the year 1819 or there abouts?

No, but nearly every future-set TV show or film has a tendency to lean into the pop culture of the time of broadcast. It's a fairly reasonable suspension of disbelief to give the world-building some grounding in reality; Tilly suddenly belting out some made-up chart topper from 2250 or thereabouts would have been more daft IMO

Goodshape

I can forgive the Bowie for a few reasons.

– we still talk about music from 200 - 300 years ago. You can't sing Mozart or Beethoven, etc., but they haven't gone away.

– mid-20th century was the birth of global media. We don't see rockstars / pop-stars as ubiquitous as Bowie or the Beatles anymore. Signal to noise ratio just isn't as good and likely never will be again. I can imagine it still being special 200+ years time.

– if it were "quote a book/poem" and someone started into Shakespeare – today – we'd think nothing of it. No-one would complain that you should get with the times and quote J.K. Rowling or whatever.

– Disco has mentioned Kasseelian opera more than once. It's not exclusively 20th century earth references, you just notice it when it is.

– Bowie is good and I enjoyed hearing the song.

Johnny Storm

Goodshape wrote: »

– Bowie is good and I enjoyed hearing the song.

I would have enjoyed it more if she's started belting out Ziggy Stardust .... :pac:

Sad Professor

Bowie was a legend. I've no trouble believing that people will still be listening to and referencing him 250 years from now. The name-dropping of Elon Musk in the first season was way more annoying.

Franz Von Peppercorn

pixelburp wrote: »

No, but nearly every future-set TV show or film has a tendency to lean into the pop culture of the time of broadcast. It's a fairly reasonable suspension of disbelief to give the world-building some grounding in reality; Tilly suddenly belting out some made-up chart topper from 2250 or thereabouts would have been more daft IMO

It’s either that or write a popular song from the future.

Goodshape

Sad Professor wrote: »

Bowie was a legend. I've no trouble believing that people will still be listening to and referencing him 250 years from now. The name-dropping of Elon Musk in the first season was way more annoying.

They also had "Musk Junior High" on a screen in season two when Tilly is looking up her old school friend, May.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School

I could certainly do without that reference.

fritzelly

Re the music, this is relevant
https://www.thejournal.ie/millennials-music-knowledge-1960s-4481978-Feb2019/

Like the holo issue to explain why it wasn't in use during TOS era

Overall liked the episode.

Sad Professor

Goodshape wrote: »

They also had "Musk Junior High" on a screen in season two when Tilly is looking up her old school friend, May.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School

I could certainly do without that reference.

I hadn't noticed that. Ugh!

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

I can forgive the Bowie for a few reasons.

– we still talk about music from 200 - 300 years ago. You can't sing Mozart or Beethoven, etc., but they haven't gone away..

Of course you can
schubert's better for an aul song though imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8UDOmUcxCk


But yeah i've no issue with the music. And picking a song to sing during something like that is a thing already, as someone said. Plus they're always referencing klingon opera or whatever the opera was that stamets was on about previously, which you also said i think

PhiloCypher

24th century set TNG had Data playing 500+ year old Mozart concertos in every other episode but apparently people doubt Bowie would make a 23 century playlist. Bizarre

ixoy

PhiloCypher wrote: »

24th century set TNG had Data playing 500+ year old Mozart concertos in every other episode but apparently people doubt Bowie would make a 23 century playlist. Bizarre

Exactly. It's always been like this. TNG - Sherlock Holmes is still the most popular thing to re-enact. Nobody else has written a memorable piece of fiction since then.
Voyager - Janeway's choice of escapism is a borderline racist Irish village from what they probably thought 21st century here was..
DS9 - Sisko just happens to still play a popular American sport.

They all very rarely seem interested in anything beyond the timeline in which they're filmed. Seems like all creative industries died at that point.