Congress 2019

dog_pig

blowitupref wrote: »

John Costello, Dublin GAA: On Donegal propose motion that no team is allowed to nominate Croke Park as their home venue in the Super 8.

"I have been attending congress since I was a youth delegate in the late seventies, and I think this is the first motion I have experienced that is divisive and mean-spirited.

Is this man for real?

Similar sentiment to what Kelly said, do they really believe the nonsense they're spouting?

roadmaster

Could we now see Lenister rugby playing games in tullamore or portlaoise in the future. They are still sort seen as a dublin based team and they would like to get rid of that view. Offaly county board still have big debt on o connor park so they would be looking in interest i would say

Dots1982

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is not of CLG Áth Cliath's making.

People need to be reminded of that. Seen it for years in Leinster council with all the go by the wall sleeveen antics of county delegates acting the big man at home about "the jackeens" and then voting in Portlaoise to keep Dublin footballers in Croke Park.

If people want not to have Dublin having two group games in CP - which I think is fair - then they should frame a proper motion to that effect.

Do agree also that there should be a recorded vote on contentious motions to stop the sort of thing I refer to above, if that is what is happening.

It’s not Dublin’s responsibility to frame the rules of the association. The rule proposed wasn’t a great solution to the problem. The GAA need to find one though because they are going to continue to get their ass burned on this.

Why are people blaming the wording?

As if there was any hope it wouldn't have been defeated in similar fashion had the wording entailed the option to play outside Parnell.

So what if they have to play in Parnell. Its their home ground.
If they want a bigger ground they should build one like every other county has.

Let them start to pump some of their funds into a ground like the rest of us instead of having use of HQ and a colossal income to spend on development and expenses.

howiya

Dots1982 wrote: »

It’s not Dublin’s responsibility to frame the rules of the association. The rule proposed wasn’t a great solution to the problem. The GAA need to find one though because they are going to continue to get their ass burned on this.

Problem with that is that the GAA won’t see beyond any lost revenue in the immediate future and will wait until they get their ass burned as you say.

I’d like to see Dublin put forward a motion that would amend the rule that says the neutral game has to be in Croke Park. Every other county has two games on the road in the Super 8s. Dublin should be the same. If Donegal’s county board had got their way today dublin would still have had two games in Dublin which I’m sure wasn’t their intention.

I’d still be surprised if it got passed though. Sometimes the GAA is too democratic for its own good though. Let’s be honest delegates from Kilkenny won’t care where the super 8s are played. Neither does it affect half of the football counties out there either so they vote to maintain the status quo. The unfortunate realities of Congress...

Dots1982

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Why are people blaming the wording?

As if there was any hope it wouldn't have been defeated in similar fashion had the wording entailed the option to play outside Parnell.

So what if they have to play in Parnell. Its their home ground.
If they want a bigger ground they should build one like every other county has.

Let them start to pump some of their funds into a ground like the rest of us instead of having use of HQ and a colossal income to spend on development and expenses.

Not sure who was blaming the wording. I think the spirit of the proposed rule was stupid. All it was doing was moving one Dublin game from croker to Parnell. That’s still putting Dublin at an advantage.

howiya

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Why are people blaming the wording?

Wording is very important when dealing with changes to rulebooks.

All the Donegal motion would have succeeded in doing was ensuring Dublin still had two games in Dublin. Neutral game in Croke Park and home game in Parnell Park. It doesn’t level the playing field. The seven other teams have to travel twice.

They should have tried to change the rule that says the neutral game has to be in Croke Park.

theoneeyedman

No surprise with the Croke Park motion, but it is a fundamentaly wrong decision. No team, least of all dublin should have effectively 2 home games like this. Shows though that many of these delegates and the hierarchy in Croke Park are driven by power and finance rather than fair play.

Dublin have a serious advantage financially here. Every other county board have serious resources (finances/fundraising/day to day human resources) tied up in maintaining and running County grounds. Yhue habe to be developed and maintained to high standards of comfort and safety to host intercounty games, none of which comes cheap. The richest board (dublin) only have to keep Parnell Park, which is a glorified club ground.

A question, how much are dublin charged for the NFL games in HQ. They used to claim that it took a crowd of >35k to make a Championship game break even there. The crowds in CP for these games are generally a lot lower. Who is paying for this? Do the Dublin Co board pay a fixed rental charge for the venue? Hwo pays for the stewarding etc? If they are paying for the real cost of the venue, it can't be paying its way.

Dots1982

howiya wrote: »

Problem with that is that the GAA won’t see beyond any lost revenue in the immediate future and will wait until they get their ass burned as you say.

I’d like to see Dublin put forward a motion that would amend the rule that says the neutral game has to be in Croke Park. Every other county has two games on the road in the Super 8s. Dublin should be the same. If Donegal’s county board had got their way today dublin would still have had two games in Dublin which I’m sure wasn’t their intention.

I’d still be surprised if it got passed though. Sometimes the GAA is too democratic for its own good though. Let’s be honest delegates from Kilkenny won’t care where the super 8s are played. Neither does it affect half of the football counties out there either so they vote to maintain the status quo. The unfortunate realities of Congress...

You’re spot on.

I do think the GAA are suffering from a revenue point of view on Dublin’s dominance.

Bonniedog

Looks like Donegal have better things to be worried about now than where Dublin play their matches ….

gaffer91

Dots1982 wrote: »

You’re spot on.

I do think the GAA are suffering from a revenue point of view on Dublin’s dominance.

I honestly think Dublin dominance could lead to a massive decline of Gaelic Football in the medium to long term.

Powerhouse

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Why are people blaming the wording?

As if there was any hope it wouldn't have been defeated in similar fashion had the wording entailed the option to play outside Parnell.

So what if they have to play in Parnell. Its their home ground.
If they want a bigger ground they should build one like every other county has.

Let them start to pump some of their funds into a ground like the rest of us instead of having use of HQ and a colossal income to spend on development and expenses.

Yes, that'd be a clever use of resources - the GAA should ignore the large stadium down the road and go to the insane expense of building a new one.

As we saw from Newbridge last year, the idea that every other county has a "bigger ground" is laughable.

Mehapoy

blowitupref wrote: »

Motion 39 is defeated after a No vote of 64%The county reps that voted against that motion knew which side their bread is buttered on..

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Dublin to play home game in Croker, neutral and provincial game away from croker, then theyre not playing a game in parnell park

Fr Tod Umptious

Mehapoy wrote: »

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Dublin to play home game in Croker, neutral and provincial game away from croker, then theyre not playing a game in parnell park

The solution in my opinion is no not have a Quarter Final Group Stages game in Croke Park in the first place.

I was at Kildare v Monaghan, Kerry v Galway last July in the first round and the atmosphere was abismal.

Much better if they were played in two separate neutral venues rather than a double header in CP

And if you got a Kerry v Dublin then Thurles would do fine, it did before.

But no it's won't happen, all because of that misrable shower east of Mayo and west of Westmeath.
They caused it in the first place with there hissy fit in 2001, they should table the motion to change it.

Bonniedog

Mehapoy wrote: »

Wouldn't it have made more sense for Dublin to play home game in Croker, neutral and provincial game away from croker, then theyre not playing a game in parnell park

Exactly.

A motion worded that way would have had good chance of success. which begs the question as to why the Donegal one was worded as it was, and if there were in fact motions to above effect that were not put on the Clár?

Anyway, result was "The motion went to the floor and was rejected by 64% of the delegates."

As for Costello I think he was referring to some of the comments made rather than the intent of Dublin only having one game in CP, which would be fair. I suspect framers of motion might have been of view/hope that Parnell might also have been ruled out after Congress on health and safety grounds or at very least that a county down to play Dublin in Parnell would have had the psychological comfort blanket of using that as part of their build up.

ToBeFrank123

Congress bottle it once more when it comes to Dublin.

Here's an idea. Why not send Dublin down to Thurles or Cork for neutral games. Both stadiums could accommodate the crowds following Dublin in a Super 8 game. And they would be genuine neutral venues.

Croke Park is not a neutral venue, never was, never will be.

Bonniedog

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Congress bottle it once more when it comes to Dublin.

Here's an idea. Why not send Dublin down to Thurles or Cork for neutral games. Both stadiums could accommodate the crowds following Dublin in a Super 8 game. And they would be genuine neutral venues.

Croke Park is not a neutral venue, never was, never will be.

when you calm down you might actually read the motion.

It had nothing to do with ruling out Croke Park as a neutral venue. It was to stop Dublin naming it as a home venue in the 8's.

Had the motion proposed that Dublin be only allowed one game in 8s - probably the designated home tie for crowd reasons - but not for their "Croke Park" game, then it might have been passed.

But it didn't, and it wasn't.

Stoner

ToBeFrank123 wrote:

Croke Park is not a neutral venue, never was, never will be.

That's not what this was about though. It was not the location of the neutral game, it was about Dublin using CP for the home game.

Perifect

Lads, this wouldn't have passed no matter what! You could have worded it any way you liked. It's all about the money. Fair play in Gaelic Games has long gone out the window.

RedDevil55

Bonniedog wrote: »

when you calm down you might actually read the motion.

It had nothing to do with ruling out Croke Park as a neutral venue. It was to stop Dublin naming it as a home venue in the 8's.

Had the motion proposed that Dublin be only allowed one game in 8s - probably the designated home tie for crowd reasons - but not for their "Croke Park" game, then it might have been passed.

But it didn't, and it wasn't.

Donegal actually questioned this last summer as well. However, they were told the Croke Park game is set in stone, no mention of it having to be neutral.

I don't believe it would have passed through Congress either way. The reality is that most counties are so far behind Dublin they don't care either way. If Kilkenny hear that their funding is going to be cut if a Dublin football related motion passes, why would they vote it in?

ToBeFrank123

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Donegal actually questioned this last summer as well. However, they were told the Croke Park game is set in stone, no mention of it having to be neutral.

I don't believe it would have passed through Congress either way. The reality is that most counties are so far behind Dublin they don't care either way. If Kilkenny hear that their funding is going to be cut if a Dublin football related motion passes, why would they vote it in?

So you cannot question them naming CP as a home venue. And you cannot question CP named as a neutral venue.

Laughable to say the least. How many more advantages can be given to one county?

Bonniedog

A motion could have been put to rule out Dublin having a group game in Croke Park:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/1128/1013833-mcgill-croke-park-dublin-super-8s-congress/

Indeed, CP said that it was a matter that could only be changed by Congress and not by CCC.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/1128/1013833-mcgill-croke-park-dublin-super-8s-congress/

Furthermore, as far back as November, they had discussions on this with Donegal so they could in fact have proposed a motion specifically at use of CP by Dublin as "neutral" venue.

Why didn't they?

What difference would it make if Dublin could then nominate CP as home venue rather than Parnell? Does anyone think they have a better chance of beating Dublin in Parnell than in Croke Park?

Only impact of a Parnell game would be 12,000 instead of maybe 50,000 if it was game against Mayo for example. Certainly more than 30,000 no matter who it was.

howiya

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Donegal actually questioned this last summer as well. However, they were told the Croke Park game is set in stone, no mention of it having to be neutral.

I don't believe it would have passed through Congress either way. The reality is that most counties are so far behind Dublin they don't care either way. If Kilkenny hear that their funding is going to be cut if a Dublin football related motion passes, why would they vote it in?

The neutral game at Croke Park is only "set in stone" because it was previously voted in by Congress. That doesn't mean that Congress can't seek to change the rule in the future or at the weekend just gone.

While I agree that a different motion wouldn't have passed in the current climate but it would have been closer had the motion actually addressed the unfairness of the current situation and then possibly built momentum and ultimately get across the line in the future if presented again at Congress.

Take your Kilkenny example. Delegates are sitting there listening to Donegal say how unfair it is that Dublin have two home games in the Super 8s. Dublin speak and confirm that they would use Parnell Park for their home game if the motion carries. The Kilkenny delegates say to themselves, hang on a minute. There'll be less money to go around and you're still going to give Dublin two games in Dublin. Why on earth would anyone vote for that?? Motion defeated.

howiya

Perifect wrote: »

Lads, this wouldn't have passed no matter what! You could have worded it any way you liked. It's all about the money. Fair play in Gaelic Games has long gone out the window.

If the motion had passed, Dublin would have still played twice in Dublin. Where is the fair play in that?

Dublin are too familiar with Croke Park. Let's make them play where they play their club football instead. You couldn't make it up.

zetecescort

Are we still having the finals in August?

Dots1982

The motion may have been rejected anyway but if the only motion brought was a stupid one it makes it easy for congress to vote it down.

grbear

Was there any motion or even discussion about possibly tightening up the rules and regulations with regards how County Boards handle money and audits?

Seems extraordinary to me that in the past few months we have seen major issues come to light in the counties with the second and third highest revenues in the Country (open to correction but I assume it's Dublin, Cork, Galway) but there's very little talk of making the rules stricter or greater scrutiny from Croke Park.

Dots1982

grbear wrote: »

Was there any motion or even discussion about possibly tightening up the rules and regulations with regards how County Boards handle money and audits?

Seems extraordinary to me that in the past few months we have seen major issues come to light in the counties with the second and third highest revenues in the Country (open to correction but I assume it's Dublin, Cork, Galway) but there's very little talk of making the rules stricter or greater scrutiny from Croke Park.

All counties don’t even release their accounts for public consumption. It’s a scandal within the GAA that doesn’t even get a smidge of coverage.

RMAOK

zetecescort wrote: »

Are we still having the finals in August?

Unfortunately yes.

dog_pig

Bonniedog wrote:

Donegal motion was badly worded as I said a good while ago.

Bonniedog wrote:

Anyway, I and others in Dublin agree with only having one CP game but Donegal motion was badly framed.

Bonniedog wrote:

Sounds like it was drafted in the pub after a few pints.

Bonniedog wrote:

Not exactly Plato and Aristotle who look after such matters in Donegal, although I suspect they had another plan which would have stopped Dublin having any games in either Croke Park OR Parnell.

"When first we practise to deceive …" and so on

Bonniedog wrote:

Looks like Donegal have better things to be worried about now than where Dublin play their matches ….

Is there something you want to tell us Bonnie?