Mountjoy Square Regeneration Plan

Tombo2001

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/plan-to-turn-dublin-s-mountjoy-square-into-visitor-attraction-revealed-1.3626632

Anyone know anything about how this plan is progressing.

I've noticed a bit of a shift in Mountjoy Square in recent years.

Its still the same crummy concrete football pitch and playground that has been there since the 1980s, plus big corporation (or DCC) building, plus relatively attractive green area.

The change I've noticed is in the people there. If its sunny at all, the place is crammed and with a very positive vibe coming out of it. And its nearly all families, mostly non-Irish, who I am guessing live in the various apartment complexes near by.

The area has absolutely massive potential, and if they could improve Mountjoy SQuare comparable to say Merrion Square, it would transform the inner city.

Tombo2001

Apologies - don't know how that came out red....but read on....

Fiftyfilthy

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Apologies - don't know how that came out red....but read on....

The old Georgian toilets in the far corner were removed which personally I thought was a great shame. They were never operational in years but added to the setting

The long hedge separating the park from the football area has been removed. I can only imagine the amount of syringes that hedge had

There was or is plans to remove the building by the football pitch but it’s still there

I find the mix on a sunny day is very 50/50 between non nationals, addicts and alcoholics sunbathing

CucaFace

I work right beside the park. English language students have moved into the whole area around the square over the last 3/4 years, much to its improvement. Also a lot of the halfway houses around the area no longer exist so there are far less of the problematic people around the area then say 5 years ago. There are still some on sunny days in the park, but In general its a much improved area.

LionelNashe

I lived there until 2 years ago. It could do with some west-facing benches. On a nice summer evening, I like to sit and face the sun.

Half the railings & their settings were redone, and lamps have been installed on top of at least one of the gates (or at least I'm fairly sure it's new).

There's a creche in the park that's been there years (decades maybe?) that will have to be accommodated before its building can be knocked. That's one barrier that I heard had been raised in discussions. Money is another big barrier. Newspaper reports were quoting €4 million at one point.

I think a Merrion-square type deal would look good, but at the same time, the basketball courts get a good bit of use, so I don't know if they should be lost.

I think it should be done in such a way that you can look right through the park at night and see the Georgian houses on the other side, as opposed to the view being obscured by too many trees or whatever. That's one good thing about the hedge being gone.

Muahahaha

Haven't heard anything about progress on this but would say that any re-generation of the square would have to co-incide with the reopening of Fitzgibbon St Garda station and a proper policing plan put in place. There's no point spending millions on the square for it then to be taken over by alcos and junkies as it currently is.

The article linked says back in its glory day it used to be compared to fine squares in London. Successive councils really have let it fall into a complete mess.

Tombo2001

LionelNashe wrote: »

I lived there until 2 years ago. It could do with some west-facing benches. On a nice summer evening, I like to sit and face the sun.

Half the railings & their settings were redone, and lamps have been installed on top of at least one of the gates (or at least I'm fairly sure it's new).

There's a creche in the park that's been there years (decades maybe?) that will have to be accommodated before its building can be knocked. That's one barrier that I heard had been raised in discussions. Money is another big barrier. Newspaper reports were quoting €4 million at one point.

I think a Merrion-square type deal would look good, but at the same time, the basketball courts get a good bit of use, so I don't know if they should be lost.

I think it should be done in such a way that you can look right through the park at night and see the Georgian houses on the other side, as opposed to the view being obscured by too many trees or whatever. That's one good thing about the hedge being gone.

Thanks - completely agree about the view through the trees. Also - the crèche should be moved, its a real eyesore and could be in lots of other places. Ditto that great big council building.

I agree re the Basketball court. I just think in this age of housing shortage - this has the potential to be a fantastic inner city asset that would support the notion of the inner city as a place were people want to live.

jhenno78

LionelNashe wrote: »

the basketball courts get a good bit of use, so I don't know if they should be lost.

Doesn't it show a basketball court in the plan?

LionelNashe

jhenno78 wrote: »

Doesn't it show a basketball court in the plan?

Oh yeah, it does now, now that you mention it. 4 or 5 years ago, I don't think it was included.

ongarboy

I've noticed 3 adjoining Georgian homes on the north side of the Square, which I recall were involved in a fire a couple of years back, have been refurbished and restored. Their facades look beautiful and fresh now. This Square has so much potential if it could be improved organically. It could lift and change this part of the north inner city if done right.

Muahahaha

Yeah there is huge potential there to bring it back to what it was. Even if they were to powerwash the Georgian buildings it would make a difference, there is literally decades of road dust stuck to the brick facades which makes the entire square look dull and shabby. But Mountjoy shouldnt be looked at in isolation, the entire north inner city is in dire need of some investment. There's no votes in it so I cant see it happening anytime soon. I'd guess it will happen slowly in a piecemeal approach over time, Parnell Square is earmarked for an upgrade and the new Dublin City library (which occupies 5 Georgian buildings) is due to open on it in 2022 iirc. After the upgrade of Parnell Sq is finished they will look at Mountjoy Square. Its gonna take some time, I can't see anything serious happening on Mountjoy for at least 5 or 6 years, maybe even longer.

fly_agaric

Muahahaha wrote: »

Parnell Square is earmarked for an upgrade and the new Dublin City library (which occupies 5 Georgian buildings) is due to open on it in 2022 iirc. After the upgrade of Parnell Sq is finished they will look at Mountjoy Square. Its gonna take some time, I can't see anything serious happening on Mountjoy for at least 5 or 6 years, maybe even longer.

Funny this thread had made me think about Parnell Square...didn't they "announce" that plan with fanfare about 7 years ago (and poster above me who probably knows more/pays better attention mentions 2022)...only 3-4 years off.

So can expect a Mountjoy Square regeneration really soon....it'll be any decade now!

wakka12

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah there is huge potential there to bring it back to what it was. Even if they were to powerwash the Georgian buildings it would make a difference, there is literally decades of road dust stuck to the brick facades which makes the entire square look dull and shabby. But Mountjoy shouldnt be looked at in isolation, the entire north inner city is in dire need of some investment. There's no votes in it so I cant see it happening anytime soon. I'd guess it will happen slowly in a piecemeal approach over time, Parnell Square is earmarked for an upgrade and the new Dublin City library (which occupies 5 Georgian buildings) is due to open on it in 2022 iirc. After the upgrade of Parnell Sq is finished they will look at Mountjoy Square. Its gonna take some time, I can't see anything serious happening on Mountjoy for at least 5 or 6 years, maybe even longer.

Theres a good bit of investment going in, the redevelopment of Dominic Street began recently. The new student accom blocks on Dorset St and Summerhill Parade all opened relatively recently, some of the flats on Sean mcdermott street done up, new health clinic summerhill parade, tokyo inn hotel going in the old magdalene laudries buildings. Theres also the proposal to rejuvenate serveral laneways throughout Dublin One. And the library as you say,Thats a lot of investment in 2-3 years

LionelNashe

wakka12 wrote: »

Theres a good bit of investment going in, the redevelopment of Dominic Street began recently. The new student accom blocks on Dorset St and Summerhill Parade all opened relatively recently, some of the flats on Sean mcdermott street done up, new health clinic summerhill parade, tokyo inn hotel going in the old magdalene laudries buildings. Theres also the proposal to rejuvenate serveral laneways throughout Dublin One. And the library as you say,Thats a lot of investment in 2-3 years

I'm also optimistic. I walk through town most days, and I've noticed a lot of Georgian brickwork being restored by private owners in the last year or two. For example, there are a few adjoining houses on Lower Gardiner Street. There's No. 1 Mountjoy Square which somebody mentioned above, which looks great. There's scaffolding on a house on Belvedere Place at the moment and there were a couple of houses done up on Gardiner Place last year. RTE included an episode on the restoration of this corner house on Sherrard Street in a series about house restoration last year. The owner-occupier did up the ground & first floors and did a great job on it.

LionelNashe

I see Dublin Central Housing Action talking about the loss of the football pitch (old tennis courts). I don't think that the pitch actually gets much use.

https://twitter.com/D_C_H_A/status/1155397597160456193?s=20

wakka12

What are they on about needs of the community. The only people who will use those courts are local young boys. A proper centrally located park will be used by the whole community, young , old , disabled, children and babies, families, tourists, nearby workers

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

What are they on about needs of the community. The only people who will use those courts are local young boys. A proper centrally located park will be used by the whole community, young , old , disabled, children and babies, families, tourists, nearby workers

And where will the local young boys play sport?

The park is already available to the whole community, it's not clear why they need all of it. There isn't exactly pressure for space.

Someone earlier mentioned using the park as an example of how urban living can be improved in dublin. Well that involves something exactly like this, where a parent can bring their kids to the park, sit in the sun, have a picnic maybe, and the bigger kids can play football or basketball.

It shouldn't become another St Stephens Green. It isn't an ornament.

roycon111

I'd hardly call Stephen's green an ornament. There are literally thousands of people going through it a day and using it for different things.

I think all they are planning to do is return it to the layout that was originally planned for as a Georgian square and it would help to rejuvenate the area and bring in a few more visitors and tourists which would be nice to sea. It looks terrible at the moment and a city square is no place for a creche or nursery school with passers by being able to look in.

Compared to other inner city areas there are quite a few options for sports facilities nearby but in any case there is a significant new development at Clonliffe college being developed by the GAA with at least 2 new full sized pitches along with other facilities which is less than half a mile away. I imagine O'connells school will probably start using these facilities as well.

Thats not to say I would be against them putting a pitch in the middle but I think that the risk of their being glass or cans or needles etc on the pitch in this sort of an inner city area if it was an open park means it is unlikely that this will happen.

I think they need to get rid of the sheds as they take away from the square generally and having half of one of the nicest public squares in Dublin being in accessible as we currently have is a bit ridiculous.

Merrion square or Stpehens Green are nice and open and accessible to everyone. They are also internationally lauded and well maintained. i really can't see how even the most cynical of people would see them as a negative

roycon111

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think it should be done in such a way that you can look right through the park at night and see the Georgian houses on the other side, as opposed to the view being obscured by too many trees or whatever. That's one good thing about the hedge being gone.

Having large trees was the original design and intention when it was built and there isn't many proper parks around this area except for Blessington basin so it would be good to see these kept but agree re the dark hedges and the fences covered with boarding which also make it darker (although I know they are currently to block people looking into the creche/primary school area).

roycon111

roycon111 wrote: »

I'd hardly call Stephen's green an ornament. There are literally thousands of people going through it a day and using it for different things.

I think all they are planning to do is return it to the layout that was originally planned for as a Georgian square and it would help to rejuvenate the area and bring in a few more visitors and tourists which would be nice to sea. It looks terrible at the moment and a city square is no place for a creche or nursery school with passers by being able to look in.

Compared to other inner city areas there are quite a few options for sports facilities nearby but in any case there is a significant new development at Clonliffe college being developed by the GAA with at least 2 new full sized pitches along with other facilities which is less than half a mile away. I imagine O'connells school will probably start using these facilities as well.

Thats not to say I would be against them putting a pitch in the middle but I think that the risk of their being glass or cans or needles etc on the pitch in this sort of an inner city area if it was an open park means it is unlikely that this will happen.

I think they need to get rid of the sheds as they take away from the square generally and having half of one of the nicest public squares in Dublin being in accessible as we currently have is a bit ridiculous.

Merrion square or Stpehens Green are nice and open and accessible to everyone. They are also internationally lauded and well maintained. i really can't see how even the most cynical of people would see them as a negative

Woah, nobody is complaining about St. Stephen's Green, but it is more ornamental than of much practical use, apart from its small playground. Yes, people sunbathe there, but that isn't sufficient as a social amenity, like some of the parks you get in Berlin or Barcelona.

I'd have thought that some kind of sports facility, like the basketball court, would be top of the agenda in terms of things to retain in Mountjoy Square Park. It makes the park more family friendly, provides a useful distraction and exercise for kids, and teenagers -- I can't quite see the objection. The park is huge. There is plenty of space for everyone.

You mention Clonliffe College, half a mile away. The whole point is that sports facilities should be a part of the park -- where adults can relax together in pleasant surrounds near their homes, and their kids are safe when at play in a confined area

You also refer to returning the square to its original Georgian plan. I think that would be an atrocious let-down. Times change, we have to change with them. Local children are no longer street urchins and messenger boys, they are local residents, and it their interests and their families' needs, above all, that the park should serve.

That also includes the obvious need to landscape the park to make it a pleasurable place to relax and socialise.

If we're serious about making the inner city a livable, pleasant place to be, then we have to get serious about this kind of planning.

roycon111

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Woah, nobody is complaining about St. Stephen's Green, but it is more ornamental than of much practical use, apart from its small playground. Yes, people sunbathe there, but that isn't sufficient as a social amenity, like some of the parks you get in Berlin or Barcelona.

I'd have thought that some kind of sports facility, like the basketball court, would be top of the agenda in terms of things to retain in Mountjoy Square Park. It makes the park more family friendly, provides a useful distraction and exercise for kids, and teenagers -- I can't quite see the objection. The park is huge. There is plenty of space for everyone.

You mention Clonliffe College, half a mile away. The whole point is that sports facilities should be a part of the park -- where adults can relax together in pleasant surrounds near their homes, and their kids are safe when at play in a confined area

You also refer to returning the square to its original Georgian plan. I think that would be an atrocious let-down. Times change, we have to change with them. Local children are no longer street urchins and messenger boys, they are local residents, and it their interests and their families' needs, above all, that the park should serve.

That also includes the obvious need to landscape the park to make it a pleasurable place to relax and socialise.

If we're serious about making the inner city a livable, pleasant place to be, then we have to get serious about this kind of planning.

I just can't see the point of having concrete and tarmac in a city garden park when there are so many similar options which aren't even used that much nearby and with further particularly extensive facilities already on the way. Have you looked at the clonliffe plans yet? Its going to be enormous

I hate to break it to you but there aren't many local children left living on the square or on the surrounding Georgian houses and the few that are there are usually there only very temporarily . The age of people living in the council flats now even on Fitzgibbon street is a lot older than it once was.

I'm not sure what you are on about with the messenger boys rant. Again it was only in the family tenement days when there any kids living on the square and there aren't any of those left anymore.

There are very few kids who play basketball in Ireland as well to be honest but maybe a five aside pitch could be accommodated but again I doubt that it would be that safe to have one here or make much sense from a practical perspective.

You seem to be fighting a battle in your argument for a group that simply do not exist and whatsmore dont either want or need there to be basketball courts and a creche in the square.

LionelNashe

It was pointed out to me a few months ago that the basketball courts are being retained in the plans. They do get a fair bit of use. Mostly guys in their late teens or twenties, of various nationalities. The tarmac football pitch is going, I think. This gets less use.

jhenno78 wrote: »

Doesn't it show a basketball court in the plan?

wakka12

You see boys kicking around a ball on the green spaces in Stephens green.Draw some white lines dimensions on the grass if needs be. But does there need to be big ugly permanent tarmac or all weather court in the middle of what could be a lovely grassy patch with multiple purposes. I dont think theyre professional players for the most part,but if they want to have a serious game of whatever sport then go to a proper sports facility, if its social sport playing with friends, simple green space is more than sufficient, and leaves the green space usable to other kinds of people when not being used for sports