At what point does an EV make sense & at what point does it not?

Uriel.

Hey all,
In the market for a new (or new used) car in 2019.
My existing (petrol) car is now 16 years old (I've had it for 13 years).
We are a one car family and likely to stay that way. No kids yet, but hope to start our family in 2020, so am thinking ahead as to safety, space comfort etc.

I take PT to work and my wife works long night shifts only so effectively only commutes 7 times a month. Looking at the odometer readings from the last NCT, we are basically averaging 6,000 km per year over past 3 years.
Mostly, city and town driving (living in a Dublin Suburbs) but a few weekend long range trips every year in Ireland for hiking, weekends away etc. and a once every 6-8 weeks trip to Wexford to visit relatives

While our existing car is manual, my wife doesn't like driving it and will really only commute herself if the car is an automatic.

We've been looking around at where to go with a purchase and had been thinking of hybrids likes the IS300 or 330e
But have recently got into thinking about full electric and whether it is worth it for us at this point. We don't really like the look of the Leaf or Zoe and the I3 is only four seats and we want to be future proofed.

Ioniq has caught our fancy and more recently have liked the looks of the eNiro. However, these are obviously serious money and I am not really sure that it is worth it for us. Before we were starting to look at full electric we were looking at a price point of between €17,000 and €21,000 (including looking to the UK).A new (full EV) Ioniq is probably about €9k above that price point and the eNiro seems likely to be a further €10k again. While we would likely keep the car for a significant number of years (i.e. 8+) I am not sure that it is worth us looking at that price point for the driving we do, even if we might expect to do more over the coming years if/when children arrive.

I was wondering if there are better options, including just sticking with petrol for now, or whether PHEV is worth exploring.

Is there a price point where going full electric just isn't worth it at this point in time?

KCross

The low usage coupled with some long trips, imo, means you should stick with hybrid petrol.

Having an EV sitting outside for many days at a time not being used isnt a good idea.

The 330e BMW is a good idea if it can do your wife's full commute on EV. How long is that commute?

Mike9832

What are you spending on fuel every week

15 euro?

Financially EV's make sense for crazy commuters spending 80e a week on diesel, they are not worth the premium imo if your spending 15-20e a week on petrol

330e is insane value from the UK

Almost 50k new here and low mileage 2018 models are half that price at 25k in the UK

I would be looking at one of them for sure, almost 300bhp too and the 25km range on electric isn't bad, would get me to work and back

Only thing I would worry about is warranty issue's, you'd want to be getting an extended warranty with a BMW, 330e are insanely complicated and BMW only have a 2 year warranty as standard I believe

Kia Optima phev is nice too and with 7 year warranty, can't wrong with a Lexus either

Look at the Mercedes 350e too, about 20km on electric, wicked fast with nearly 300bhp

Mazda will be announcing a range extender EV soon as well, believed to be the Mazda 3 with 200km range or so on electric and powerful little petrol rotary engine to charge battery, like the BMW i3, watching that one myself

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121185_mazda-rotary-range-extended-ev-and-diesel-engine-both-coming-but-no-us-hybrids-for-now

Uriel.

KCross wrote: »

The low usage coupled with some long trips, imo, means you should stick with hybrid petrol.

Having an EV sitting outside for many days at a time not being used isnt a good idea.

The 330e BMW is a good idea if it can do your wife's full commute on EV. How long is that commute?

It's about 33km (EDIT: Return)- half low speed motorway (80km/h), almost the other half city/town driving and about 2km full speed motorway.
Because of the shift work she tends to be going against the bulk of the traffic (i.e. 8am from city to home and 19:00 from home to city.
Probably wouldn't do the full commute on electric, but not far off I would say.

Uriel.

Mike9832 wrote: »

What are you spending on fuel every week

15 euro?

Financially EV's make sense for crazy commuters spending 80e a week on diesel, they are not worth the premium imo if your spending 15-20e a week on petrol

330e is insane value from the UK

Almost 50k new here and low mileage 2018 models are half that price at 25k in the UK

I would be looking at one of them for sure, almost 300bhp too and the 25km range on electric isn't bad, would get me to work and back

Only thing I would worry about is warranty issue's, you'd want to be getting an extended warranty with a BMW, 330e are insanely complicated and BMW only have a 2 year warranty as standard I believe

Kia Optima phev is nice too and with 7 year warranty, can't wrong with a Lexus either

Look at the Mercedes 350e too, about 20km on electric, wicked fast with nearly 300bhp

Mazda will be announcing a range extender EV soon as well, believed to be the Mazda 3 with 200km range or so on electric and powerful little petrol rotary engine to charge battery, like the BMW i3, watching that one myself

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121185_mazda-rotary-range-extended-ev-and-diesel-engine-both-coming-but-no-us-hybrids-for-now

Thanks. Yeah spending about €60 a month on petrol so about €15 p.w.
The thing, apart from being EV with low maintenance, servicing etc. that got me seriously thinking about full EV is that the 330e or c350e are about €20-21k for 2/3 year old. - another what, 7 or 8k hits Ioniq territory and is probably a better option in terms of future proofing for a family.

But I think you are right, the extra premium probably doesn't make much sense for us at this point.

Is there any other decent PHEVs worth looking at that would be a step down from BMW or Merc? We looked at Outlander but it is too big for my OH.

Black_Knight

Mike9832 wrote: »

Financially EV's make sense for crazy commuters spending 80e a week on diesel, they are not worth the premium imo if your spending 15-20e a week on petrol

For someone considering changing their car anyways, who is doing few short commutes, how is an EV not the right option? They still save you money every time you use them. The long range weekends would be a bit more painful in an EV. IMO that's the question the OP has to ask themselves. How much inconvenience are you willing to endure?

For really long trips, use the money saved to rent a car? :pac:


Only bit of parenting car advice I can impart is that since we've had out little girl, my wife has become awful at putting petrol in her car. Stopping the car risks a crying baby. With an EV, you don't have that problem anymore.

beauf

I think my role of thumb for me is if I almost always fill up at the same petrol station near my house or office. I probably will suit an EV if I can install my own home charger.

If I am always filling up at different stations on route and last minute then probably not.

Sabre Man

How about a BMW i3 and i3 Rex? There are a few of them on Done Deal in your price range.

Mike9832

Black_Knight wrote: »

For someone considering changing their car anyways, who is doing few short commutes, how is an EV not the right option? They still save you money every time you use them. The long range weekends would be a bit more painful in an EV. IMO that's the question the OP has to ask themselves. How much inconvenience are you willing to endure?

For really long trips, use the money saved to rent a car? :pac:


Only bit of parenting car advice I can impart is that since we've had out little girl, my wife has become awful at putting petrol in her car. Stopping the car risks a crying baby. With an EV, you don't have that problem anymore.

OP is spending €2 a day on petrol

Spending €30,000 on an EV make so much financial sense :rolleyes:

He might cut that €2 a day down to €1 a day on night rate electricity

Car rental from that €1 a day saving

Collect it at the Airport, take out the premium cover, 1500e excess on the credit card

Mike9832

Uriel. wrote: »

Thanks. Yeah spending about €60 a month on petrol so about €15 p.w.
The thing, apart from being EV with low maintenance, servicing etc. that got me seriously thinking about full EV is that the 330e or c350e are about €20-21k for 2/3 year old. - another what, 7 or 8k hits Ioniq territory and is probably a better option in terms of future proofing for a family.

But I think you are right, the extra premium probably doesn't make much sense for us at this point.

Is there any other decent PHEVs worth looking at that would be a step down from BMW or Merc? We looked at Outlander but it is too big for my OH.

Kia Optima and Kia Niro PHEV are nice

Good range too, should do the 33km on electric

Niro can do 50km I believe

Alkers

If you have no kids an Ampera will do you until you have three! 50km realistic range on electric will do all your daily commuting and unlike some other phevs it's not comprimised at all when the battery is depleted and you revert to ICE - in fact it's like a Toyota "self charging" hybrid at this point.
Can be got for 10k-12k depending on year and mileage which is a more sensible amount to be spending in your situation where even a 25k EV will not suit your longer trips.

Black_Knight

Mike9832 wrote: »

OP is spending €2 a day on petrol

Spending €30,000 on an EV make so much financial sense :rolleyes:

He might cut that €2 a day down to €1 a day on night rate electricity

Car rental from that €1 a day saving

Collect it at the Airport, take out the premium cover, 1500e excess on the credit card

Sounds like OP is willing to spend 21k on a car, and is wondering if 9k more on an EV can be justified (not 30k just for the lolz of having an EV). Probably not when you weigh up everything if those numbers are accurate.

Lantus

For such low mileage disregard EV and research the nicest most comfy auto you can get for your budget. Ideally petrol. Then enjoy it. If those core considerations happen to cross with an EV then great but don't try to force EV into a nice ice hole.

Mike9832

Black_Knight wrote: »

Sounds like OP is willing to spend 21k on a car, and is wondering if 9k more on an EV can be justified (not 30k just for the lolz of having an EV). Probably not when you weigh up everything if those numbers are accurate.

Your right of course it works

It's only my own taste and my value for money

If I was spending 15e a week in petrol I would prefer to be driving a 300bhp 1 year old Mercedes C350e vs a 1 year old Korean ecobox Ioniq

Of course I'm going to say go ahead and buy the i3 because I own one and absolutely love it.

Currently there are 2 of you so go ahead, you can always change it if you have "3" Children........

I have 2 Boys 3 and 4.5 and no issues with the i3.

It's the Rex so you don't have to worry about queues at charge points because the Generator keeps power to the battery but it's the longest range so called plug in that you will find on the planet !

3 battery options, 64 and 94 ah or 21 and 33 Kwh. 21 Kwh from 2014-2016 and 33 Kwh late 2016-late 2018, and 40 Kwh late 2018

The Rex is not like any other plug in , the engine is strictly a generator and never drives the wheels, it's always 100% electrically driven.

I didn't like it at first but a 500 Km test drive shocked me at how much fun it was to drive so I bought one from the test drive alone, and things like looks and rear doors were instantly forgotten and now I drove one.

Go drive a few cars and if you're in the market for an EV just find one withing your budget because if you're in the market for a new or 2nd hand car , if EV is within the price territory then you'd be mad not to buy the EV. The i3 rex offers good EV range, much better than normal plug + the huge advantage of the generator for long trips, as long as you got petrol in the tank you can drive, it's a go anywhere, any time car.

n97 mini

If your current car is only costing €15 a week, drive it till it drives no more. Then start looking at options.

I've a 15 year old Civic IMA that's running fine, albeit it's a bit rough around the edges. It makes no financial sense to change it at the moment. No other car, once purchase price is factored in, will cost less to run.

daheff

Black_Knight wrote: »

Only bit of parenting car advice I can impart is that since we've had out little girl, my wife has become awful at putting petrol in her car. Stopping the car risks a crying baby. With an EV, you don't have that problem anymore.

Wonder though if the quietness of an ev will lull the baby to sleep???

Mike9832 wrote: »

Kia Optima and Kia Niro PHEV are nice

Good range too, should do the 33km on electric

Niro can do 50km I believe

received a Niro PHEV last week. Can say that its range is around 50-55km (this week!)

Black_Knight

daheff wrote: »

Wonder though if the quietness of an ev will lull the baby to sleep???

Or maybe the rumble of an engine does it... :eek:

slave1

Uriel. wrote: »

...
Ioniq has caught our fancy and more recently have liked the looks of the eNiro. However, these are obviously serious money and I am not really sure that it is worth it for us. Before we were starting to look at full electric we were looking at a price point of between €17,000 and €21,000 (including looking to the UK).A new (full EV) Ioniq is probably about €9k above that price point and the eNiro seems likely to be a further €10k again...

Can't believe it has not been mentioned but the Ioniq is currently in the Hyundai scrappage range at €4k off so that would be about €26k brand new if you scrapped your current car so not the €9k you're thinking of.
It's not just cost implications, there are other criteria in making the move to EV
The emissions - you won't have the car on for 10minutes on the driveway warming up on a morning like this morning and fumes everywhere...
Long term maintenance costs are significantly less
Remote preheating/conditioning of the car
Less tax
Reduced tolls
Free charging at destinations e.g. Hotels, Lidl etc
€600 home charger grant

You should factor the costs of an EV over say a 5 year period (you look like a long term car owner and not someone who changes every two years) and then see does it make sense, don't think short term

Best thing you could do is book some test drives

ewj1978

As my wife said to me yesterday, Why would anyone (when buying a new car) not buy electric?

unkel

ewj1978 wrote: »

As my wife said to me yesterday, Why would anyone (when buying a new car) not buy electric?

It took me a while convincing herself we should ditch our BMW 6 cylinder petrol and buy an Ioniq EV.

But after owning Ioniq for nearly 2 years, when I recently suggested selling Ioniq (that has cost me almost zero in depreciation so far) and temporarily switch back to a BMW 330e (while waiting for the next generation of EVs) she was having none of it

Lantus

ewj1978 wrote: »

As my wife said to me yesterday, Why would anyone (when buying a new car) not buy electric?

1. Capital cost of car exceeds budget.
2. Available range is insufficient or requires to many compromises.
3. Apartment owner with no home charging option.
4. Doesn't like the car choices currently available.

Over time 2nd hand EV market will grow and scale of production reduce all costs. Range will increase and so will choices and infrastructure but there are just as many reasons to buy or not buy an EV as there is any car.

Uriel.

Thanks all for feedback, some interesting points and view points.

I think generally, it probably reinforces where I was at, at the beginning, would like to go BEV but PHEV seems to make the most sense for my particular needs at the moment, factoring in budget etc. Probably looking at 3 or 4 year old c350e or 330e I guess. Will do some research on Optima but price point seems to be too far off Merc BMW, so reliability and parts/labour/servicing costs aside, the c350e seems a better purchase.

Not a fan of the I3 I am afraid, admittedly I haven't driven it though.
I think the Hyundai scrappage deal requires you to take out finance which I am trying to avoid and can, at the moment clear 19k cash.

I probably won't be looking to purchase until second half of this year so I have some time to look at further options in any event.

Mickeroo

Uriel. wrote: »

Thanks all for feedback, some interesting points and view points.

I think generally, it probably reinforces where I was at, at the beginning, would like to go BEV but PHEV seems to make the most sense for my particular needs at the moment, factoring in budget etc. Probably looking at 3 or 4 year old c350e or 330e I guess. Will do some research on Optima but price point seems to be too far off Merc BMW, so reliability and parts/labour/servicing costs aside, the c350e seems a better purchase.

Not a fan of the I3 I am afraid, admittedly I haven't driven it though.
I think the Hyundai scrappage deal requires you to take out finance which I am trying to avoid and can, at the moment clear 19k cash.

I probably won't be looking to purchase until second half of this year so I have some time to look at further options in any event.

You don't have to take out finance for the hyundai scrappage deal.

daheff

Black_Knight wrote: »

Or maybe the rumble of an engine does it... :eek:

thats what i meant.

ICE has the rumble...which could be what is lulling the kids to sleep -or it might be the motion. So if its the rumble...you're out of luck with an EV

TeaBagMania

You need a five liter Mustang with a six speed manual so the wife wont want to drive it

oinkely

Uriel. wrote: »

I think the Hyundai scrappage deal requires you to take out finance which I am trying to avoid and can, at the moment clear 19k cash. .

Scrappage in early 2018 did not need finance. My mother bought one for cash (€26500) with scrappage (a 2002 renault laguna) from Mooneys in Naas in last year.

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Best thing you could do is book some test drives

Did I see someone mention 24 hour test drives? I've never driven an EV before. I'm an android guy, and if someone was telling me windows mobile is great, i'd surely want more than a quick testdrive to find out before spending money on it. Bad analogy, but an EV is a big change.

Also, did someone mention something about scrapping a car they've owned for only a short period of time? Or dealers selling them a car to scrap immediately.
My current car is worth more than 5k, but to save 5k i'd certainly buy something scrapable.

unkel

Depends on the dealer, Black Knight. Contact them all.

And yes, book a 24h test drive for any EV you fancy. It's free and it gives you the opportunity to test the car out properly. See how you get on with all the family on board, buggies, kids, etc. See how you get on on your commute, or on longer spins. Public fast charge the car. Do everything you would normally do.