2rn Hbb TV tests

Machinehead

Just noticed some strange stuff on a 2rn test card coming from channel 48 Maghera. Included in the channel details is something labelled with hbbtv which even after googling I'm still not sure what it is. Also there's a red button captioned 'brúigh' (press) service that brings up what seems to be an interactive service similar to the Aertel. Anyone with some ideas what's going on here, a redesign for the Aertel service perhaps? It's carrying audio from Lyric FM.

Gerry Wicklow

HBBtv is similar to MHEG5 and is used by several European channels for Aertel like services.

The Cush

What is the testcard LCN?

The Cush

Saorview Connect is HbbTV based tech, hybrid broadcast broadband TV. MHEG5 is old tech.

Machinehead

The Cush wrote: »

There are 2 newish DSM-CC data streams being carried in the muxes, been there since early Dec, with a break over Christmas. Related I wonder?
Excuse my ignorance here on this, but first why would my TV want to see this hbbtv service and what can it do with it?

The Cush

Machinehead wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here on this, but first why would my TV want to see this hbbtv service and what can it do with it?

Maybe its there for the Saorview Connect receiver? Bitrate is low.

Johnboy1951

What's the Service ID of this channel? 1189?
Thanks.

The Cush

This from the 2rn website, 2rn Launches the first HbbTV test service in Ireland.

http://www.2rn.ie/hbb-tv-test-transmission/
http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2rn-Launches-the-first-HbbTV-test-service-in-Ireland_3.pdf

The Cush

The current on-air tests consist of Saorview Radio screen holders complete with the current Programme title and programme synopsis information. A test information service is also available via Red Button on the 2rn test channel.

http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2rn-Launches-the-first-HbbTV-test-service-in-Ireland_3.pdf

I have a HbbTV compatible TV (Toshiba 43T6863) so I went checking to see what I could find, did a new installation to enable HbbTV. They appear they have reshuffled the radio channels on the epg.

The radio channels now start for me at LCN 251 and go to LCN 261, previously LCN 200-209. As above, the radio screen displays radio holders complete with the current programme title and programme synopsis information. The information can be slow to load/display or may not load at all.

The SSU data channels have moved from LCN 254/255 to LCN 274/275.
LCNs 262-273 are hidden empty channels (except LCN 264 carrying RnaG audio).

The 2rn test channel, the hidden channel at LCN 14 I assume, is not doing anything for me. Not sure if the TV is incompatible with the red button test or that they have switched it off the test tonight? I'll check over the coming days.

EDIT: The 2rn test channel, confirmed by Johnboy1951 below, is at LCN 250, hidden but can be accessed directly via the 2-5-0 buttons on the remote control.

Johnboy1951

14 seems to be a HD test channel .......
2rn
Ath Cliath
Ardghleine
AVC HD


The 2rn test channel in question was on 250 ..... still showing as that on my HDHomerun tuner box.

Test card with three audio channels two of which have audio from other channels and the third a test tone only.

250 2rn AVC (not HD)

Make of that what you will

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The 2rn test channel in question was on 250 ..... still showing as that on my HDHomerun tuner box.

Test card with three audio channels two of which have audio from other channels and the third a test tone only.

250 2rn AVC (not HD)

Make of that what you will

Thanks for that.

Yes, I've checked it now, LCN 250 is the hidden 2rn test channel and can confirm the red button is working for me on that channel.

Can you tell me the SID for that channel?

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Yes, I've checked it now, LCN 250 is the hidden 2rn test channel and can confirm the red button is working for me on that channel.

Can you tell me the SID for that channel?

1189 - It has not changed?

I don't have the ability to view HbbTV presently.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

1189 - It has not changed?

Thanks again.

This is it on the bitrate monitoring website with HbbTV data identified as Data (AIT) - http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=PSB-MUX-1&pid=1189&live=15&sec=0&lang=en

The radio channels, excluding Radio Maria Ireland, also carry HbbTV/Data (AIT) in their stream.

I'll try to post a few pics soon.

stephend2000

I’m getting a “Wordfence, securing your wordpress site” splash screen or a 404 page of 2rn’s website when I enter HbbTV

Tigerandahalf

So what exactly are they testing? Is it the delivery of the aertel service for the Connect box? I think the button on the remote gave no response upto now.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

Thanks again.

This is it on the bitrate monitoring website with HbbTV data identified as Data (AIT) - http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=PSB-MUX-1&pid=1189&live=15&sec=0&lang=en

The radio channels, excluding Radio Maria Ireland, also carry HbbTV/Data (AIT) in their stream.

I try to post a few pics soon.

I look forward to seeing a couple of pics as I cannot access it here presently.

Thanks.

The Cush

stephend2000 wrote: »

I’m getting a “Wordfence, securing your wordpress site” splash screen or a 404 page of 2rn’s website when I enter HbbTV

Working fine here via Win10/Edge - http://www.2rn.ie/hbb-tv-test-transmission/

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So what exactly are they testing? Is it the delivery of the aertel service for the Connect box? I think the button on the remote gave no response upto now.

They are testing the replacement for the current MHEG-5 interactive TV middleware standard used on Saorview for Aertel and MHEG-5 generated placeholders on television channels RTÉjr, RTÉ One+1 and Oireachtas TV when off-air and the Saorview radio channels screen placeholders.

HbbTV is the European replacement for the 2 previous standards used in Europe, MHEG5 and MHP. HbbTV combines both broadcast and broadband seamlessly into a single interactive standard for current uses like Aertel and placeholders and future OTT services, on-demand, IPTV content, etc. etc., direct to a compatible receiver/TV.

I assume this is being tested on both Saorview Connect and HbbTV compatible TVs, to the NorDig standard - HbbTV 1.5 specification. I have it on a 2017 Walker TV and a 2018 Toshiba TV.

The test should be available on Saorview Connect, it's carried on the hidden 2rn test channel at LCN 250, type in 2-5-0 directly on your r/c, wait for the red button prompt in the bottom left hand corner of the screen - captioned 'brúigh' (press). You will then be presented with an HbbTV generated Aertel test screen.

The radio channels are also carrying HbbTV generated data on screen which includes current programme name and programme summary.

This is Germany's terrestrial TV HbbTV service called freenet TV connect, launched back in 2017 and carried via the ZDF PSB mux.

The Cush

RTÉ Radio 1 HbbTV screen with programme name and summary


LCN 250 red button


HbbTV test transmission confirmation, accessed via Help


Initial screen (News Headline 1) as gaeilge


News screen


News Headline 2 screen


News Headline 3 screen


Sport screen


Information screen

The Cush

Tigerandahalf

Is this going to allow something like the bbc sport app on the humax box, and on Connect you can access rte news and sport?

The Cush

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Is this going to allow something like the bbc sport app on the humax box, and on Connect you can access rte news and sport?

It should, depends on what RTE are planning.

Johnboy1951

@The Cush

Thanks for the pics.

They look very clean and sharp.

Interesting times ahead!

Machinehead

Seems like they've pulled the Hbb TV tests this morning, red button was inactive when I first checked @ 12:10pm, or maybe have they moved it to another screen?

12 element

Will this be used to carry the 7 day epg?

Tigerandahalf

Not sure if this was the case before but the saorview connect box now shows picture in corner when the teletext screen is displayed.

Handy feature....if it was there 20 years ago.

Is this aertel content being delivered over the internet or over the air?

The Cush

12 element wrote: »

Will this be used to carry the 7 day epg?

Unknown, but if we look back at the early days of Saorview they did similar MEHG-5 (green button) epg tests - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66277167 . That never launched.

IIRC a couple of commercial MHEG-5 7-day epg guides did launch on Freeview but they eventually disappeared.

The DVB transmission standard already provides an adequate and easy to use 7-day guide. Who knows what the future will bring.

StreetLight

The test pattern has moved from LCN 250 to 51, still hidden.

The Cush

StreetLight wrote: »

The test pattern has moved from LCN 250 to 51, still hidden.

Still on 250 for me even after a rescan of both muxes. Nothing at all on 51.

StreetLight

Interesting. None of my TVs are Hbb enabled.

The test appeared on 250 for me last week. Now, after a retune, it's on 51. Might explain the test disappearing for an earlier poster.

Johnboy1951

StreetLight wrote: »

Interesting. None of my TVs are Hbb enabled.

The test appeared on 250 for me last week. Now, after a retune, it's on 51. Might explain the test disappearing for an earlier poster.

2rn was showing both on 51 and 250 here.

Now on 51 only.

The Cush

Checked a non-HbbTV television here, there a is difference in the channel positions between the two.

The 2rn engineering test channel is at LCN 51 with no red button on the non-HbbTV receiver and LCN 250 with red button on the HbbTV enabled receiver.

The radio channels are at LCN 200-210 on the non-HbbTV receiver and LCN 251-261 on the HbbTV enabled receiver.

The SSU data channels are at LCN 254-255 on the non-HbbTV receiver and LCN 274-275 on the HbbTV enabled receiver.

LCN 252-253 on the non-HbbTV receiver attempt to load some data service but stall.

The Cush

Updated tariff charges starting April 1st

- Red Button Channel Tariff Daily SD Tariff Standard Fixed kbps Rate - €5,000 per day
- Pop Up Channel Tariff Weekly SD Tariff Standard Fixed kbps Rate - €25,000 per week
- Annual Tariff Tariff Standard Fixed kbps Rate (kilo bit per second) - €308.25 per kbps

Also, this from the updated wholesale access reference document

MAIN ASSUMPTIONS

The Service Provider’s current main assumptions are:

•  All TV and Radio Channels on the platform on 1 January 2019 will remain on the platform at similar average bit rate usage for the Q1 2019 invoicing period, namely September, October & November 2018, for the five year term, with the exception of one radio channel;
  
•  RTÉ One + 1 SD TV Content Transport Streams is broadcast 24 hours a day from the start of the 1st April 2019 and remains at its average bit rate usage levels for the full Term.
  
•  RTÉ 2 + 1 SD TV Content Transport Streams is broadcast with limited hours from the start of the 1st April 2019 and remains at its average bit rate usage levels for the broadcast hours for the full Term.
  
•  A new SD TV Content Transport Streams is broadcast from the 1st April 2020 and remains at its average bit rate usage levels for the remainder of the Term.
  
•  The total of the estimated input costs in the Service Provider’s cost model are in line with actual costs incurred over the Smoothing Period.
  
•  Some Pop Up Channels and Red Button Channels are requested through each year of the Term after year one.

Johnboy1951

A new SD TV Content Transport Streams is broadcast from the 1st April 2020

What channel is starting April next year?
It must already be decided as it is being included in the calculations.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Checked a non-HbbTV television here, there a is difference in the channel positions between the two.

The 2rn engineering test channel is at LCN 51 with no red button on the non-HbbTV receiver and LCN 250 with red button on the HbbTV enabled receiver.

The radio channels are at LCN 200-210 on the non-HbbTV receiver and LCN 251-261 on the HbbTV enabled receiver.

After a rescan the radio channels have returned to the 200-210 LCN range with HbbTV channel ID and info.

The 2rn engineering test channel has moved to LCN 50, no red button.

StreetLight

2rn test channel back on 250 again.

Johnboy1951

StreetLight wrote: »

2rn test channel back on 250 again.

Yep ...... but a couple of things are still puzzling to me ......

What is the purpose of the HD transmission on 14?
Is this related to a new channel apparently due in April?
What is this new channel? Anyone got a clue?

lgs 4

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yep ...... but a couple of things are still puzzling to me ......

What is the purpose of the HD transmission on 14?
Is this related to a new channel apparently due in April?
What is this new channel? Anyone got a clue?

Well, I don't think it's going to be RTE3 HD, now with one hour laters. Definitely not Virgin without some legislation.

Tigerandahalf

lgs 4 wrote: »

Well, I don't think it's going to be RTE3 HD, now with one hour laters. Definitely not Virgin without some legislation.

Any chance TG4 could be going HD?

lgs 4

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Any chance TG4 could be going HD?

The answer is I don't know. It should have gone HD years ago, not behind the sky paywall. Sky did the same with Channel 5 till they ended subsidies. (Dirty tricks)

StreetLight

After being on 250 for much of the day, the test has returned to 51 again this evening. Is this changing of LCNs serving any purpose?

Johnboy1951

StreetLight wrote: »

After being on 250 for much of the day, the test has returned to 51 again this evening. Is this changing of LCNs serving any purpose?

It gives us something to do tracking it!

StreetLight

Something unusual on the 2rn test. The pattern is moving up and down, but the "Éireann" graphic is static!

Johnboy1951

StreetLight wrote: »

Something unusual on the 2rn test. The pattern is moving up and down, but the "Éireann" graphic is static!

It's fun, isn't it? watching the test card make its way up the screen

10000maniacs

I don't see the point in HbbTv. You need broadband to use it, but if you have broadband, just download a better app onto your tv and forget about HbbTv altogether.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021230#Comment_118021230

HbbTV is the next generation replacement for MHP/MHEG-5 middleware by broadcasters. It merges broadcast and IP in a single standard. It is being rolled out by broadcasters across Europe replacing the older middleware standards.

More than that it is the beginning of the transition to IP broadcasting. The ITU's WRC-23 is reviewing the complete UHF spectrum band which includes the remaining TV broadcast band. It is now likely 5g will be allowed access to the band as an outcome of the conference, possibly on a secondary or co-primary basis. The 5g broadcast standard is in development and could one day replace traditional broadcasting.

StreetLight

Red button now active on the 2rn test LCN 51. A prompt entitled RTE Services slides in from the left on a Hbb-enabled TV and gives access to selected news sourced from the RTE website with pictures and text.

marclt

Is hbbtv likely to make it to Saorsat?

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021230#Comment_118021230

Targeted advertising i think. Its broadcast Tvs way of competing with You Tube.