Four young men killed in Donegal crash

TheRiverman

Tragically Donegal in the news again for the wrong reason.Why is this happening ?.Just can't image the devastation for those families tonight.

Wishbone Ash

RIP

(Single vehicle accident).

John_Rambo

Having recently drove across the county over two weekends (twice and once during the night) and witnessing the antics and reckless driving culture I'm saddened and shocked but not surprised. I can't imagine what those families are going through, as a father I'll go to bed thinking of them.


It's awful news.

Up Donegal

Another sad day for Donegal.
May they Rest in Peace.

ItsLikeThis

TheRiverman wrote: »

Tragically Donegal in the news again for the wrong reason.Why is this happening ?.Just can't image the devastation for those families tonight.

Lack of Garda presence on the roads and shocking bad attitude of drivers here. A lot of roads are not up to standard, but people are not driving accordingly.

I don't know the details of this crash however and my condolences are with the families.

Andrew00

Too many young lads and joy riders up in Donegal drifting around and going 120mph at all hours after a few pints. Something needs to be done

RIP

worded

RIP.

Driving is the most dangerous thing we do every day.

Donegal is not the worst county.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rsa-road-deaths-4117518-Jul2018/

mikeecho

A tragic and needless loss.

The lesson here is , not to drive beyond the limits, be it your own limits, that of the car, the weather or the road conditions.

Situational awareness

AbdulAbhaile

RIP and condolences to the victims family and friends.

A tragedy that could touch any of us any day.

airy fairy

Instead of pathetic morning hold-ups checking limits from the night before, the Gardai should be driving the backroads in unmarked cars from dawn to dusk. It's only then will they get to the root source of drink driving and wreckless driving, young and old.
Not suggesting the causes of this latest accident, but not knowing where, or what the Gardai may spring out of may teach us all to respect the roads and vehicles we drive.

gctest50

airy fairy wrote: »

Instead of pathetic morning hold-ups checking limits from the night before..........

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

airy fairy

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

I'm not denying this isn't happening, but there are little or no patrols going on through the night.
I'm living rural. There are fresh doughnut signs on numerous back roads every night, cars racing in the distance every night. No patrol car available if one is requested.

corks finest

TheRiverman wrote: »

Tragically Donegal in the news again for the wrong reason.Why is this happening ?.Just can't image the devastation for those families tonight.

Again?

corks finest

airy fairy wrote: »

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

I'm not denying this isn't happening, but there are little or no patrols going on through the night.
I'm living rural. There are fresh doughnut signs on numerous back roads every night, cars racing in the distance every night. No patrol car available if one is requested.

Same all over CORK

Dr Turk Turkelton

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

So probably the safest time time to be driving as 89% of fatal accidents in which a driver consumed alcohol didn't occur between 7am and 11am?

Del2005

worded wrote: »

RIP.

Driving is the most dangerous thing we do every day.

Donegal is not the worst county.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rsa-road-deaths-4117518-Jul2018/

Per head of population it is. 1 million people in Dublin and 6 deaths compared to 159k people in Donegal and 5 deaths.

TheRiverman

corks finest wrote: »

Again?

Remember in 2010 eight people were killed in a two car crash in Donegal.

realdanbreen

Del2005 wrote: »

Per head of population it is. 1 million people in Dublin and 6 deaths compared to 159k people in Donegal and 5 deaths.

You can't compare Dublin to rural counties. You'd be doing well ( and breaking the law) to get up to 80km on roads in the Dublin area. Anyway another single vehicle crash and more lives lost and all avoidable.

sydthebeat

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

As someone alluded to above, I find it very strange when this stat is pulled out to support early morning testing (I've no opinion either way on that, BTW).

Pro rata that means that that 4 hour period is statistically the safest period to drive on the road, especially if you've had a drink.

The J Stands for Jay

corks finest wrote: »

Same all over CORK

Donegal always gets **** on here, but Cork is statistically the worst county for all the shenanigans on the road. They even have a bit of a drink driving culture.

Eggs For Dinner

Lot of assumption being made here within hours of 4 families being devastated by unthinkable tragedy. RIP, I'll leave it at that

Wishbone Ash

airy fairy wrote: »

Instead of pathetic morning hold-ups checking limits from the night before, the Gardai should be driving the backroads in unmarked cars from dawn to dusk. It's only then will they get to the root source of drink driving....

Most people who are drinking are doing it at home. It would be a huge waste of Garda resources to patrol backroads looking for people who don't exist.

John_Rambo

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

You'd think they'd concentrate on the other 89% where people are killed and maimed.

corks finest

TheRiverman wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

Again?

Remember in 2010 eight people were killed in a two car crash in Donegal.

I'm not saying this lightly I've kids/ grand kids- most young PPL killed on our roads are either speeding/ drinking/ or drugging,,,or a combination of all 3, statistics show 80 plus per cent happen after 11 at night - the early hours,now no one is driving around at 2/3/4/5 in the morning just our for a spin,,,,,,one other really important point,after all these tragedies,when the dust settles why don't the traffic corp state why the accident occurred,what caused it? Were drink/speed/ drugs involved,and why don't bloody parents have more control,what happened last night/ this morning is going to happen again

corks finest

John_Rambo wrote: »

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

You'd think they'd concentrate on the other 89% where people are killed and maimed.

Speed

Ave Sodalis

Eggs For Dinner wrote:

Lot of assumption being made here within hours of 4 families being devastated by unthinkable tragedy. RIP, I'll leave it at that

Especially considering the roads in that area were slippy last night with black ice. They may not have really thought they were, or maybe the driver misjudged the car's handling with 4 people in it as well as the slippy roads.

The road from Bundoran to Letterkenny and the road from Donegal Town to Killybegs are the only two main roads there is. The rest are built as basic roads and just tarred over again when bits sink too far into the bog. I know I've misjudged a dip in the road at night before. There's a dip in the road between where I live and the nearest main town. I know it's there because I drive that road daily, but you wouldn't be able to tell it's bad just by looking at in when driving. It's only when everyone hits their heads off the roof that you notice it.

There's also a lot of wildlife in the area and someone encounters a deer on a regular basis. They could have been trying to avoid something.

Maybe excessive speed was involved. However, knowing these roads, there's also a possibility that the road conditions caused it too.

Zubeneschamali

worded wrote: »

Donegal is not the worst county.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rsa-road-deaths-4117518-Jul2018/

Of course there are more deaths in Dublin and Cork, there are 10 times as many people in Dublin, 3 times in Cork.

gctest50

corks finest wrote: »

Speed

"Only" 32% of it - where's the other 68

(2008-2012)

Of the 867 collisions analysed, 274 ( 32%) were cited as having excessive speed for the road and conditions as a contributory factor to the collision. This may not have been the sole cause of the collision but contributed in either full or part to the final outcome.

Of this number 19% cited excessive speed as the sole contributory factor

Interslice

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

11% of alcohol related driving fatalities occur in 17% of the day?

Del2005

realdanbreen wrote: »

You can't compare Dublin to rural counties. You'd be doing well ( and breaking the law) to get up to 80km on roads in the Dublin area. Anyway another single vehicle crash and more lives lost and all avoidable.

Dublin is bigger than the city centre and has plenty of places to get above 80, both legal and illegal.

There is much more risk diving through a housing estate than a rural road.

If you go up the Dublin mountains or other rural areas there is plenty of rubber on the road.

Dublin has more people, more risks and our Gardai are as useless yet less deaths than Donegal.

TheRiverman

We are all responsible for our own actions while driving.Unfortunately too many people,young and older do not drive safely.I see crazy driving everyday,where the speed limit,condition of the road,weather etc.are all ignored.I have posted here previously about an instruction I got many years ago when I was doing a truck driving course,"read the road",too many out there don't know how to do that or probably never heard of it.

TrailerBob

It’s all too easy to pass judgement from afar. There’s 4 families grieving today, and many more friends and relatives besides. You can be sure that those families will be reflecting on those same questions, and don’t need the rest of us condemning their actions (that we don’t know about) and proclaiming x,y, and z. There was a man killed in Monasterevin too, but I don’t see anyone saying that Kildare needs to look at itself.. and I’m originally from Kildare

Marcusm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Especially considering the roads in that area were slippy last night with black ice. They may not have really thought they were, or maybe the driver misjudged the car's handling with 4 people in it as well as the slippy roads.

The road from Bundoran to Letterkenny and the road from Donegal Town to Killybegs are the only two main roads there is. The rest are built as basic roads and just tarred over again when bits sink too far into the bog. I know I've misjudged a dip in the road at night before. There's a dip in the road between where I live and the nearest main town. I know it's there because I drive that road daily, but you wouldn't be able to tell it's bad just by looking at in when driving. It's only when everyone hits their heads off the roof that you notice it.

There's also a lot of wildlife in the area and someone encounters a deer on a regular basis. They could have been trying to avoid something.

Maybe excessive speed was involved. However, knowing these roads, there's also a possibility that the road conditions caused it too.

4 dead ou of 4 in the car would make me assume that none had seat belts.

average_runner

TrailerBob wrote: »

It’s all too easy to pass judgement from afar. There’s 4 families grieving today, and many more friends and relatives besides. You can be sure that those families will be reflecting on those same questions, and don’t need the rest of us condemning their actions (that we don’t know about) and proclaiming x,y, and z. There was a man killed in Monasterevin too, but I don’t see anyone saying that Kildare needs to look at itself.. and I’m originally from Kildare

Because the more we get this in the public eye the better, we don't need it to be a hush hush.

What should happen is the Coroner's Report should be made public and say the exact reason why these accidents happen. Stop hiding it.

BarryD2

John_Rambo wrote: »

Having recently drove across the county over two weekends (twice and once during the night) and witnessing the antics and reckless driving culture I'm saddened and shocked but not surprised. I can't imagine what those families are going through, as a father I'll go to bed thinking of them. It's awful news.

Concur on both fronts. In 24 hours up in Donegal, I encountered at least 2 or 3 times the number of what were drivers taking chances, compared to the roads up or back. Problem with that culture is that luck runs out sooner or later. Desperate for the families.

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Maybe excessive speed was involved. However, knowing these roads, there's also a possibility that the road conditions caused it too.

Bad roads and poor winter weather can be expected. You're supposed to adjust your speed and degree of care according to road conditions.

ednwireland

Another Donegal bashing thread , look at the deaths recently around the country on the roads not just a Donegal issue. But the lack of any public transport at night means full cars driving home at night and most younger people I know won't drink and drive.
I hate driving in Dublin there not patience by drivers there. Your just stuck in traffic but standards are just as bad.

TrailerBob

average_runner wrote: »

Because the more we get this in the public eye the better, we don't need it to be a hush hush.

What should happen is the Coroner's Report should be made public and say the exact reason why these accidents happen. Stop hiding it.

I don't disagree but the problem here is, the headline says Donegal, and everyone jumps to conclusions. Meanwhile 4 familes are torn apart while people pre-judge the actions of the driver without knowing the facts. Maybe it was drink, maybe it was speed, Maybe it was a deer... Stereotypes can damage as much as hiding

tretorn

I wouldnt go on holidays to Donegal and the reason is the number of multiple occupants fatal traffic accidents.

There is no point in comparing accident statistics with Donegal and Cork or Galway or anywhere else if you arent comparing like with like.

Each and everyone of these accidents should be investigated properly and the reasons for them given, its the only way steps can be taken to deal with this issue.

I really feel for the first responders to these scenes, I hope they get whatever support they need.

older i get better i was

Thank God they didn't kill anyone else.

blackwhite

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

So 11% of fatal accidents involving alcohol occur in a time window that comprises 16.67% of the day?


And 89% of fatal accidents involving alcohol occur in the other 83.33%?


Surely that suggests there are other 4-hour windows during the day that have much worse instances of alcohol-related fatalities, and should be the primary focus of drink-driving enforcement?

bucketybuck

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

Its been noted already, but your stat doesn't say what you think it says.

Even if it was 11% of all accidents then 1/10th of accidents happening in 1/6th of the day would indicate that there must be more dangerous period in the day...

But its not even 11% of all road traffic accidents, its 11% of accidents that had a fatality and also had a driver that had consumed alcohol, a small subset of the total road traffic accidents.

Your stat just says that the morning checkpoints are looking in the wrong place.

CrabRevolution

ednwireland wrote: »

Another Donegal bashing thread , look at the deaths recently around the country on the roads not just a Donegal issue. But the lack of any public transport at night means full cars driving home at night and most younger people I know won't drink and drive.
I hate driving in Dublin there not patience by drivers there. Your just stuck in traffic but standards are just as bad.

People say a "lack of public transport" but what they really mean is no public transport going from town to village and door to door covering the enormous spread of thousands of one off houses down every lane and boreen. It has also to somehow cover every possible combination of routes and destinations. In addition to this it has to run 24/7.

Find me any country on earth that runs such a system that you seem to expect.

Henry Ford III

Awful news.

It's another crash with multiple fatalities involving young people at night however. That must be a big concern for Donegal.

Ave Sodalis

BarryD2 wrote: »

Bad roads and poor winter weather can be expected. You're supposed to adjust your speed and degree of care according to road conditions.

I think you've missed the point of what I was saying. The road conditions are easy to be mistaken about up here, and it's easy to get caught out on black ice. What might have been an even bit of road last week, could easily have a sunken spot in it this week. Many people don't understand that having more people in your car changes the way the car reacts. If it is a case that the driver misjudged the road, then he has made a mistake countless people have made. He just paid dearly for it. He might have been drinking, he might have been speeding. My point is that he also might have misjudged the road, or had been trying to avoid something.

tcawley29

CrabRevolution wrote: »

People say a "lack of public transport" but what they really mean is no public transport going from town to village and door to door covering the enormous spread of thousands of one off houses down every lane and boreen. It has also to somehow cover every possible combination of routes and destinations. In addition to this it has to run 24/7.

Find me any country on earth that runs such a system that you seem to expect.

In fairness in my town back home there is usually only two taxis on at night and you could easily be waiting 2 hours or more in the rain and cold just to get home. I understand that not every house can be seen to but because of situations like this then you can see the temptation for people to take the car if they've only had something small like 4 drinks.
Realistically there should be some sort of service where a local minibus is hired out and funded by the state, drop people home in a 2 or 3 mile radius of the town and keep the taxis for people further afield. This in my opinion would cut down on the risk takers to drink drive at night.

blackwhite

tcawley29 wrote: »

In fairness in my town back home there is usually only two taxis on at night and you could easily be waiting 2 hours or more in the rain and cold just to get home. I understand that not every house can be seen to but because of situations like this then you can see the temptation for people to take the car if they've only had something small like 4 drinks.
Realistically there should be some sort of service where a local minibus is hired out and funded by the state, drop people home in a 2 or 3 mile radius of the town and keep the taxis for people further afield. This in my opinion would cut down on the risk takers to drink drive at night.

Why on earth should the state be expected to subsidise the profits of publicans, and the social lives of people who want to go for a drink?


I'd be more inclined to require VFI to fund such a service, and charge a levy on their members to fund it.

Alun

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

The road conditions are easy to be mistaken about up here, and it's easy to get caught out on black ice. What might have been an even bit of road last week, could easily have a sunken spot in it this week.

Sorry, but there's nothing unique about Donegal in that regard, black ice and crap roads can be found everywhere in the country.

Ave Sodalis

Alun wrote: »

Sorry, but there's nothing unique about Donegal in that regard, black ice and crap roads can be found everywhere in the country.

And? I'm not explaining why Donegal has such high accident rates. I'm explaining why, in this case, I wouldn't jump straight into the "they were driving like lunatics" comments.

Bunny Colvin

tretorn wrote: »

I wouldnt go on holidays to Donegal and the reason is the number of multiple occupants fatal traffic accidents.

There is no point in comparing accident statistics with Donegal and Cork or Galway or anywhere else if you arent comparing like with like.

Each and everyone of these accidents should be investigated properly and the reasons for them given, its the only way steps can be taken to deal with this issue.

I really feel for the first responders to these scenes, I hope they get whatever support they need.

I wouldn't go on holiday there either, it's worse than Venezuela.

JPCN1

gctest50 wrote: »

11% of fatal collisions in which a driver had consumed alcohol, occurred between the hours of 7am and 11am

Were the 11% over the limit or just had trace alcohol?

tcawley29

blackwhite wrote: »

Why on earth should the state be expected to subsidise the profits of publicans, and the social lives of people who want to go for a drink?

Why wouldn't they. All the handouts they give to people who are too lazy to work and plan to be on the dole for life, it would be nice for the tax payers to get something back. The government will also get some of this money back anyways on tax spent on fuel/vehicle maintenance/drivers wages.

When you have a community that are becoming house drinkers or even starting to lose their social lives it does cause depression which is on the rise in rural areas because people do not have access to public transport to have a social life.

Personally I left myself. I couldn't stick living like that and I have absolutely no plans to return to the country any time soon either.