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National Football League 2019

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Well Dublin, Donegal and Kerry have All-Ireland winners playing for them. I think that counts for a bit more than other baubles.

    Mayo have won poty, ypoty and All-Stars to beat the band. The only goalie to kick away an All-Ireland got an All-Star too. It means nothing at the end of the day. Mayo have been found wanting in Croke Park when there are really high stakes. Mentally, they fold. Unbelievable resilience to keep coming back every year, but resilience isn't the same thing as winning. There was plenty of resilience at the Alamo among the Texan defenders, but they still lost. Ditto many other times in history. Mental resilience does not equal a winning mentality. Mayo need to shake off the mental tag of gallant and resilient losers. Somehow, I don't think the current set of players can do that. They just aren't good enough.

    Wouldnt agree. There are 30+ all ireland winners every year. Some mightnt kick a ball.
    There is only one poty or ypoty picked in the entire country, and nobody else can carry you to it. That also makes it the hardest award to win in the game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭brinty


    Wouldnt agree. There are 30+ all ireland winners every year. Some mightnt kick a ball. There is only one poty or ypoty picked in the entire country, and nobody else can carry you to it. That also makes it the hardest award to win in the game.

    I'm pretty sure Dublin have multiple poty and ypoty in their team

    And it's a populist vote not an accurate reflection of who rarely are the best players in a given year

    Dublin have also won six all Ireland's from sux in this decade. Never failed on the big stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Pfff, sounds like he just wasnt good enough to get the job done. ����


    Well if you are facetiously attempting to imply I think that of your own chaps.

    I do not. As have said on many occasions.

    Have seen Egan a good few times, including in Parnell in O'Byrne. Today's goal was result of forced turnover, but not too many players would have been in the position to pounce as he did. The sign of a really good forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Well if you are facetiously attempting to imply I think that of your own chaps.

    I do not. As have said on many occasions.

    Have seen Egan a good few times, including in Parnell in O'Byrne. Today's goal was result of forced turnover, but not too many players would have been in the position to pounce as he did. The sign of a really good forward.

    No i was jokingly applying the nonsense logic of one of the galway posters, across the board to all players..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    brinty wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure Dublin have multiple poty and ypoty in their team

    And it's a populist vote not an accurate reflection of who rarely are the best players in a given year

    Dublin have also won six all Ireland's from sux in this decade. Never failed on the big stage.

    Yes Im sure they do. I dont see how that changes anything? There is still only 1 given out a year, whereas there are over 30 ai medals.

    As for being a populist vote - no it isnt. It is voted for by the players.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭threeball


    Agreed. Do they actually believe that old spiel though? Id have my doubts. Its probably easier to put up this hardline front than to give a rival county who they dont particularly like, credit or praise. Ive no interest in getting it to be honest, but it is interesting to see the lengths they go to to avoid doing it.

    More diversionary nonsense. Most Galway supporters would have always supported Mayo when they advanced out of connaught including myself but the constant whinging out of supporters like you have turned many off. Face facts rather than bleating on about how nobody likes you or claiming moral victories


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    threeball wrote: »
    More diversionary nonsense. Most Galway supporters would have always supported Mayo when they advanced out of connaught including myself but the constant whinging out of supporters like you have turned many off. Face facts rather than bleating on about how nobody likes you or claiming moral victories

    Its not diversionary at all, its just the truth man. You say that galway fans support mayo, but there is generally a cavaet with that, as they also tend to revel in any hint of a stutter, for example, half time in the league final on this thread. Is that actually support or just waiting around in the long grass to have a go? When you consider mayo were rank outsiders for the game with the bookies, it paints the galway 'support' in quite a different light.

    You remind me of those jealous older brother types who would be forced to go to a see the younger sibling. The support is token gesture, the mistakes all saved up for later use.

    Unlike you, I actually did support galway when they were going well. No caveats, they were just a good side representing the west, and id say that whether they managed to win all irelands or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭threeball


    Its not diversionary at all, its just the truth man. You say that galway fans support mayo, but there is generally a cavaet with that, as they also tend to revel in any hint of a stutter, for example, half time in the league final on this thread. Is that actually support or just waiting around in the long grass to have a go? When you consider mayo were rank outsiders for the game with the bookies, it paints the galway 'support' in quite a different light.

    You remind me of those jealous older brother types who would be forced to go to a see the younger sibling. The support is token gesture, the mistakes all saved up for later use.

    Unlike you, I actually did support galway when they were going well. No caveats, they were just a good side representing the west, and id say that whether they managed to win all irelands or not.

    I didn't wait until half time in the league final to reveal that Mayo have no quality forwards capable to putting a game to bed. I've being saying that for years. As far back as I can remember actually às it's been your downfall for at least 3 decades.
    Play the siege card all you want. Galway supporters tend to support mayo just as much as it comes on the other direction. Neither of us are going to hit the beer if the other loses either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    threeball wrote: »
    I didn't wait until half time in the league final to reveal that Mayo have no quality forwards capable to putting a game to bed. I've being saying that for years. As far back as I can remember actually às it's been your downfall for at least 3 decades.
    Play the siege card all you want. Galway supporters tend to support mayo just as much as it comes on the other direction. Neither of us are going to hit the beer if the other loses either.

    And yet they have 3 forwards who have 5 poty awards between them. One of them has racked up the most scores in a championship by any player - ever.
    They have consistantly gotten further than any other team, bar arguably the best team of all time. When that is the team that you are coming up short against, this spiel of saying the forwards are sh*te, is exposed as being disingenuous in the extreme.

    Let me ask, if the criteria for good forwards, is beating dublin in all ireland finals, then can you give an example of one good forward?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭threeball


    And yet they have 3 forwards who have 5 poty awards between them. One of them has racked up the most scores in a championship by any player - ever.
    They have consistantly gotten further than any other team, bar arguably the best team of all time. When that is the team that you are coming up short against, this spiel of saying the forwards are sh*te, is exposed as being disingenuous in the extreme.

    Let me ask, if the criteria for good forwards, is beating dublin in all ireland finals, then can you give an example of one good forward?

    The criteria is not to kick 40 to 50% of your chances wide. It's that simple.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭brinty


    threeball wrote:
    The criteria is not to kick 40 to 50% of your chances wide. It's that simple.


    Don't bother mate you're only wasting your time and energy

    There's no winning with Mayo fans lad

    They shift the goal posts all the time to suit themselves

    Facts are facts.. on the biggest day in 8 all Ireland's with a couple of replays thrown in since 1989 Mayo can't get it done

    No amount of poty or ypoty awards will make up for it


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,809 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    And yet they have 3 forwards who have 5 poty awards between them. One of them has racked up the most scores in a championship by any player - ever.
    They have consistantly gotten further than any other team, bar arguably the best team of all time. When that is the team that you are coming up short against, this spiel of saying the forwards are sh*te, is exposed as being disingenuous in the extreme.

    Let me ask, if the criteria for good forwards, is beating dublin in all ireland finals, then can you give an example of one good forward?

    And that player has missed frees at the crunch that could have won All-Ireland. He kind of makes my point.

    Forwards that have beaten Dublin? Ryan McHugh?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    And that player has missed frees at the crunch that could have won All-Ireland. He kind of makes my point.

    Forwards that have beaten Dublin? Ryan McHugh?

    *Drawn all irelands....
    But then dean rock missed as many in the same games. His team just came out on the right side in the end so people dont remember. He is still a double ypoty and all time top scorer in one championship season. Would you say messi was now sh*te if he missed one chance?

    Ryan mchugh is a great player, the question was forward lines though - the critera asked was name a forward line that has beaten dublin in an all ireland final. If you want to talk about semi finals the we can talk about 2012 also, where mayo beat them...


  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭crusier


    Ryan mchugh is a great player, the question was forward lines though - the critera asked was name a forward line that has beaten dublin in an all ireland final. If you want to talk about semi finals the we can talk about 2012 also, where mayo beat them...


    In fairness no one wants to meet ye in a semi final but everyone wants ye in a final.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,773 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I seem to remember both Joe Brolly and Ciaran Whelan fawning over Kerry both on telly and in the papers last year while the likes of Daragh OSas far more reserved and felt they didn’t have the pieces yet. I don’t think we’ll see that this year after that league final performance and the let down last year. That’s a good thing as it will allow Kerry to develop without that weight of expectation.

    Anybody from Kerry expecting an All Ireland this year needs their head examined. The team is too young and inexperienced and we have problems in too many positions. The team is in full ‘tear it down’ mode as they say in American sports. Couple of years away yet IMO.

    Jumping on the Kerry bandwagon is not unique to the national media.

    All we heard and saw in the Kerry media in the run up to the league final was how Tralee was a blip, it would be very different in the final, the weather we as a factor etc.

    And then when the final turned out exactly like the Tralee game the texters to Terrace Talk complained about how rough the Mayo players were on the poor little Kerry lads.

    Even presenter Timmy Moynihan was giving out about how the likes of Keegan was roughing up O Shea.
    Good thing John Kennedy made it clear that it was no different from what Aiden O Mahoney or Galvin did in their day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,809 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    *Drawn all irelands....
    But then dean rock missed as many in the same games. His team just came out on the right side in the end so people dont remember. He is still a double ypoty and all time top scorer in one championship season. Would you say messi was now sh*te if he missed one chance?

    Ryan mchugh is a great player, the question was forward lines though - the critera asked was name a forward line that has beaten dublin in an all ireland final. If you want to talk about semi finals the we can talk about 2012 also, where mayo beat them...

    You are half-right, it was all-ireland finals but it was one good forward.

    O'Connor misses the crunch chances, the ones that will change history. He nails the resilient ones, the ones that keep Mayo hanging on by their fingertips, just as I have pointed out. Dean Rock has missed free early in games, but if the 70 minutes are up, and you have a free to win the All-Ireland, would you want Rock or O'Connor to kick it? Only one answer to that.

    As someone else has said, they are happy to meet Mayo in finals, but not in semis. Maybe it will change in the future, maybe not. I don't think it will, I can even see Mayo beating Dublin in a semi-final sometime in the next three or four years, but then going on to lose the final to a Tyrone, Galway, Kerry or even Monaghan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Jumping on the Kerry bandwagon is not unique to the national media.

    All we heard and saw in the Kerry media in the run up to the league final was how Tralee was a blip, it would be very different in the final, the weather we as a factor etc.

    And then when the final turned out exactly like the Tralee game the texters to Terrace Talk complained about how rough the Mayo players were on the poor little Kerry lads.

    Even presenter Timmy Moynihan was giving out about how the likes of Keegan was roughing up O Shea.
    Good thing John Kennedy made it clear that it was no different from what Aiden O Mahoney or Galvin did in their day.

    If you’re using Terrace Talk to gauge the public opinion in kerry then there is not much I can say to you. The commentators are dinosaurs and the texts in (or at least the ones they read out) are often pure daft. I stopped listening to it some time ago. I have no idea why they don’t get recently retired players in and try to improve the standard.

    I don’t live in Kerry any more so I don’t know where you saw commentary that the first game was a blip and all would be righted for the final. Was that in the local papers?

    I attend most games and while Kerry were hopeful going to the final I don’t think anybody saw it as a gimme. I was interested to see what had been learned in the two weeks and it seems not a lot.

    There seems to be a common depiction of Kerry fans as completely deluded morons who expect to win every game and who cannot see nor acknowledge their teams limitations. I honestly don’t see that. I meet fans all the time with great knowledge and very realistic outlooks on the team. I doubt they text in to TT as it happens.

    Mayo exerted their physical advantage over Kerry in the final and were given carte Blanche by the officials to do so. I have no problem at all with that and see it as an officiating issue across the game as a whole tbh rather than a Mayo issue. And yes Kerry have done the same thing in the past on many occasions. All teams do it tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    Surely there's nothing remotely controversial in saying that Mayo's biggest downfall over the last 20+ years has been a lack of quality forwards? From one to nine they are typically as good as any team but the forward division has tended to lack depth.

    Cillian O'Connor is a really good player and putting the blame on him for losing the 2016 All-Ireland is very unfair in my opinion. He got 16 points in the two finals while the rest of the forward division managed 6 between them. in the Connacht Championship the same year he had an off day in play against a clearly inferior Galway team and Mayo ended up losing because the rest of the team couldn't compensate for him underperforming. That's where the fault has tended to lie when Mayo come up short. One or two great forwards but too many lads who do a lot of running but not much scoring. If O'Donnoghue, Carr or Treacy can prove themselves to be a reliable source of a score or two each day then Mayo will do well in Championship. If they don't then Mayo might win Connacht but they won't challenge for an All-Ireland. A shocking statement, I'm sure you'll agree.


    I'm not a fan of lads writing scutter just to get a reaction. Leave that to the knuckle draggers on Twitter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,265 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    grbear wrote: »
    Surely there's nothing remotely controversial in saying that Mayo's biggest downfall over the last 20+ years has been a lack of quality forwards? From one to nine they are typically as good as any team but the forward division has tended to lack depth.

    Cillian O'Connor is a really good player and putting the blame on him for losing the 2016 All-Ireland is very unfair in my opinion. He got 16 points in the two finals while the rest of the forward division managed 6 between them. in the Connacht Championship the same year he had an off day in play against a clearly inferior Galway team and Mayo ended up losing because the rest of the team couldn't compensate for him underperforming. That's where the fault has tended to lie when Mayo come up short. One or two great forwards but too many lads who do a lot of running but not much scoring. If O'Donnoghue, Carr or Treacy can prove themselves to be a reliable source of a score or two each day then Mayo will do well in Championship. If they don't then Mayo might win Connacht but they won't challenge for an All-Ireland. A shocking statement, I'm sure you'll agree.


    I'm not a fan of lads writing scutter just to get a reaction. Leave that to the knuckle draggers on Twitter.

    Cillian O'Connors equalizer in the drawn 2016 was a magnificent score and an extremely brave shot to take on that late in the game. Sport isn't always black and white and its very easy to label players as bottlers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭C__MC


    I just think football is such a game of luck and how the ball breaks. Cillian o Connor was a post away from putting mayo 1 up in 2017, Stephen cluxtons point blank reaction denied them another goal in the same game. I’m surprised people question Mayos forwards, they where never questioned when they slaughtered Kerry in 2017, exploited Dublin in the 16 and 17 games along with winning Connacht from 11-15 with dazzling football up front. Poor descion making has hurt them at times but some of there forward play has been lethal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    I often find people talk about Mayo as some kind of Schroedinger's team- they're bottlers but they're also not good enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    The cat is either dead or alive. Not both.
    You are either 100% pregnant or not pregnant at all. Not both.
    You have either won a senior All Ireland in the last 50 years. Or you haven't. Not both.

    Quid pro quo Clarice.

    Sweet Suffering Succotash....is it May yet?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    I've never felt more happy with my Anyone But Mayo leanings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    grbear wrote: »
    Surely there's nothing remotely controversial in saying that Mayo's biggest downfall over the last 20+ years has been a lack of quality forwards? From one to nine they are typically as good as any team but the forward division has tended to lack depth.

    Cillian O'Connor is a really good player and putting the blame on him for losing the 2016 All-Ireland is very unfair in my opinion. He got 16 points in the two finals while the rest of the forward division managed 6 between them. in the Connacht Championship the same year he had an off day in play against a clearly inferior Galway team and Mayo ended up losing because the rest of the team couldn't compensate for him underperforming. That's where the fault has tended to lie when Mayo come up short. One or two great forwards but too many lads who do a lot of running but not much scoring. If O'Donnoghue, Carr or Treacy can prove themselves to be a reliable source of a score or two each day then Mayo will do well in Championship. If they don't then Mayo might win Connacht but they won't challenge for an All-Ireland. A shocking statement, I'm sure you'll agree.


    I'm not a fan of lads writing scutter just to get a reaction. Leave that to the knuckle draggers on Twitter.

    I understand what you are saying. But I believe that if you delve a little deeper, I think that mayos forwards become a bit of a fall guy at times.
    For example, who have ended up actually beating mayo in these games? Generally the best team in the country for that year, who have also happened to beat everyone else, often by cricket scores. Which also means that they are generally outsiders for the game, often rank outsiders. In that scenario, it makes no sense that guys would be faulting them to such a degree for not winning - they werent expected to win, or even get close a lot of times. When they do manage to defy the odds and get close to the other team, often scoring more than anyone else has managed, the forwards get blamed again. It is all because of this big wait for a win - logic just goes out the window when they get are close to a result.
    In reality, often the actual thing that has beaten mayo is in fact conceding soft goals that they shouldnt have. That has been their achillies heel, not their scoring. 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 were ended by goals being scored that should have been kept out more than their forwards misfiring.
    Another reality of mayos play is that having guys given licence to run from deep is not suiting you if you are a forward. They werent a team who gave early ball, so forwards dont really get much space. The times they did play early ball, kerry 17 being the big example, their forwards were hugely effective.

    Im not saying they have world class forwards, but i dont believe they are as bad as they are made out to be either. For example, in 2017 mayo had to my mind 4 forwards that would probably have started for every team in the country, in the two oconnors, moran and mcloughlin - collectively for most counties and individually for dublin. It doesnt really add up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,284 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Closing this thread as the national football league is now over and constructive discussion of same has long since ceased.


This discussion has been closed.
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