Health insurance penalties for signing on too late

Well First Off...

I'm now 30 and I've been without health insurance now for 3 years. In my own view, because of my lifestyle, I don't see myself wanting to sign up for this until I'm in my 60s. Health insurers have this cut off point for 35 year olds. I hear that if I eventually sign back on I'll get some credits for the time I've had it.

But what I'm asking is, supposing I wanted to way until I was 65 before I sign on? I know this will mean that I'll be penalised, but if I save 35 years of health insurance money, won't that be enough to make up for the however much I'm going to be penalised for?

I think health insurance is madness for the few who are disciplined enough to lead a healthy life. It's the only thing that you're not robbed of in today's society. Ultimately you're only paying other people who pretend they don't smoke, and so on. As we speak, I'd probably be willing to pay €5 for a year's health insurance, so what does that say?!

I do have to wonder is the insurance business not corrupt like the car insurance business?

Thoie

You don't ever have to buy private health insurance in Ireland - you can stick with the public health system your whole life if you want to. Why do you think you'll want private insurance in your 60s, but not, for example, in your 40s?

Atlantic Dawn

They need to put in penalties for those only joining when they are at a high risk level and more likely to need it. Currently if you pay in from 35 your premium is the same price aged 35 as it is when you are 95.

Well First Off...

Thoie wrote: »

You don't ever have to buy private health insurance in Ireland - you can stick with the public health system your whole life if you want to. Why do you think you'll want private insurance in your 60s, but not, for example, in your 40s?

What's the difference?

I have superior health! Don't get me started!

CPTM

Thoie wrote: »

You don't ever have to buy private health insurance in Ireland - you can stick with the public health system your whole life if you want to. Why do you think you'll want private insurance in your 60s, but not, for example, in your 40s?

There's some anecdotal evidence to suggest that people aren't as young and healthy at age 60 in comparison to age 40. Perhaps they need more consultants, GP visits, or scans etc.

OP, I vaguely remember that certain health insurers won't actually let you sign up for certain plans after the age of 50 unless you had insurance beforehand. The penalties might not always be monetary.

Well First Off...

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They need to put in penalties for those only joining when they are at a high risk level and more likely to need it. Currently if you pay in from 35 your premium is the same price aged 35 as it is when you are 95.

But I'd save a huge amount of money?

Well First Off...

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They need to put in penalties for those only joining when they are at a high risk level and more likely to need it. Currently if you pay in from 35 your premium is the same price aged 35 as it is when you are 95.

As long as I save money over all, that's all I'm really worried about.

Atlantic Dawn

Well First Off... wrote: »

But I'd save a huge amount of money?

But the private insurer would lose a load of money as you wouldn't have bought in over your lifetime and be only coming in at the later stage of life where you are significantly more likely to require it.

martyoo

I have superior health! Don't get me started!

This is probably going to come as a shock to you but healthy people get sick all the time.

Yes risk increases as you age which is why a lot of people increase their level of cover as they get older but to not buy health insurance because you are currently healthy is completely senseless.

Atlantic Dawn

Well First Off... wrote: »

As long as I save money over all, that's all I'm really worried about.

An idea might be to put aside say a grand a year now, then when you are in your later years you have a lump sum should it be needed, I'd say most big medical procecures could be done for less han €50k.

Well First Off...

martyoo wrote: »

This is probably going to come as a shock to you but healthy people get sick all the time.

I disagree. I was at the doc last years ago

Well First Off...

martyoo wrote: »

but to not buy health insurance because you are currently healthy is completely senseless.

Well first off, I know the reason why I'm completely healthy.

In fact, at this stage I'm so young looking for my age that it creates a lot of confusion. I can only expect more of this as I get older!

martingriff

Well First Off... wrote: »

I'm now 30 and I've been without health insurance now for 3 years. In my own view, because of my lifestyle, I don't see myself wanting to sign up for this until I'm in my 60s. Health insurers have this cut off point for 35 year olds. I hear that if I eventually sign back on I'll get some credits for the time I've had it.

But what I'm asking is, supposing I wanted to way until I was 65 before I sign on? I know this will mean that I'll be penalised, but if I save 35 years of health insurance money, won't that be enough to make up for the however much I'm going to be penalised for?

I think health insurance is madness for the few who are disciplined enough to lead a healthy life. It's the only thing that you're not robbed of in today's society. Ultimately you're only paying other people who pretend they don't smoke, and so on. As we speak, I'd probably be willing to pay €5 for a year's health insurance, so what does that say?!

I do have to wonder is the insurance business not corrupt like the car insurance business?

Nothing stopping you just 1 think if you get some illness then decide to sign up they may not cover you for a pre existing condition. So here is hoping you stay healthy until you do or it's the public route which anyone can take

martingriff

Well First Off... wrote: »

I disagree. I was at the doc last years ago

So your 100% sure you won't get cancer, be 100% you may not get in an accident.

Well First Off...

martingriff wrote: »

So your 100% sure you won't get cancer, be 100% you may not get in an accident.

I'm more sure that I'd get a heart attack from the stress of working to pay health insurance!

Graham

Dead right OP, you could save a fortune on health insurance by waiting until you actually need it before you sign up.*


*terms & conditions apply, may be missing something.

byhookorbycrook

I was as healthy as a trout until I was 32. Then MS hit, 2 years wait in the public system to see a Neuro . The current treatment I’m on costs €2,500 a month . The numbers who get it in the public system is kept very low - in some places , you can only get it when someone else comes off it .
Without this treatment , I would be in a wheelchair by now . Instead , I work full time . I’d go hungry before I’d cancel health insurance .

phantasmagoria

I wasn't in a position to pay for health insurance until the last couple of years. I was very much of the opinion that if I stayed active, ate well and didn't abuse my body I would be fine. I got to my late 30s and finally caved after seeing people around me who were healthy getting cancer and not having to join waiting lists. I got long enough without having to take it out. They were grand, thankfully, but I wouldn't like to take my chances and wait 2 years to be seen. Probably would be dead by that stage. You can't beat peace of mind. Incidentally since I've had health insurance, have not been to the doctor's once! I sleep easy knowing medical bills are one worry that won't trouble me.

Well First Off...

Graham wrote: »

Dead right OP, you could save a fortune on health insurance by waiting until you actually need it before you sign up.*


*terms & conditions apply, may be missing something.

I don't see myself needing it before 60, so it's the perfect plan.

Well First Off...

phantasmagoria wrote: »

You can't beat peace of mind.

You're listening to too many adverts.

Irish people will always go for health insurance because there's no way they're giving up the drink.

Wheety

What a strange wind up. Only signed up a couple of days ago and this bizarre thread telling us how healthy and young looking you are. :rolleyes:

What if next time, you're not so lucky?

Well First Off... wrote: »

I remember I once nearly had a car accident on a narrow road. The car I nearly collided with drove off. I had got quite a fright so as the car was stopped along came another car (that was behind the first car) who had witnessed what nearly happened. She handed me some magazine about God and drove off.

Nigel Fairservice

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I was as healthy as a trout until I was 32. Then MS hit, 2 years wait in the public system to see a Neuro . The current treatment I’m on costs €2,500 a month . The numbers who get it in the public system is kept very low - in some places , you can only get it when someone else comes off it .
Without this treatment , I would be in a wheelchair by now . Instead , I work full time . I’d go hungry before I’d cancel health insurance .

I had health insurance for a few years but thought I'm young, I don't need it...I'll spend the money on other things. Then I got diagnosed with MS in my early 30s after I gave up my insurance. I also needed a minor operation as well for something unrelated. After being caught twice without insurance I took out health insurance again after my diagnosis but I have to serve out a 5 year wait period for having a pre-existing condition. Will hopefully be covered for it in 2.5 years.

joeguevara

I have health insurance and pay the lowest fee to Layla. It is simply to get seen in the hospital and once you are in they will treat you.

My mate broke his neck and was on a trolley for 5 days without being treated simply because no health insuarance. If he had he would have had his operation immediately.

The crazy thing was I paid for insurance for my dog and I didn’t have any but I signed up when the penalties were coming in.

Encouraged

There is a certain amount of truth in what the OP is saying here. It won't be long before people will be monitoring their health with their smart phones, or where they're monitored by an agency. The problem here is that health insurers will offer discounts to people who'll agree to be monitored.

martingriff

Encouraged wrote: »

There is a certain amount of truth in what the OP is saying here. It won't be long before people will be monitoring their health with their smart phones, or where they're monitored by an agency. The problem here is that health insurers will offer discounts to people who'll agree to be monitored.

So there is apps now to track diseases, cancers, MS etc. How about accidents. The point is yes you might be healthy now but how about next year and dont forget if you get health insurance and have a pre existing ilness they would not cover you for x amount of years

Marcusm

Well First Off... wrote: »

I'm now 30 and I've been without health insurance now for 3 years. In my own view, because of my lifestyle, I don't see myself wanting to sign up for this until I'm in my 60s. Health insurers have this cut off point for 35 year olds. I hear that if I eventually sign back on I'll get some credits for the time I've had it.

But what I'm asking is, supposing I wanted to way until I was 65 before I sign on? I know this will mean that I'll be penalised, but if I save 35 years of health insurance money, won't that be enough to make up for the however much I'm going to be penalised for?

I think health insurance is madness for the few who are disciplined enough to lead a healthy life. It's the only thing that you're not robbed of in today's society. Ultimately you're only paying other people who pretend they don't smoke, and so on. As we speak, I'd probably be willing to pay €5 for a year's health insurance, so what does that say?!

I do have to wonder is the insurance business not corrupt like the car insurance business?

Ireland uses community rating meaning all persons pay the same rate for a particular health insurance policy irrespective of their actual state of health. This allows older people to continue to enjoy health coverage. It worked very well with a single insurer (VHI) but has been more complex with new entrants - especially those who have undergone Phoenix like transformations before they gavevto contribute, via equalisation, to ensure communityvrating continues. The introduction of penalties for late uptake is also a feature of this.

Encouraged

Marcusm wrote: »

The introduction of penalties for late uptake is also a feature of this.

Yeah, it was that that the OP was asking about. I'm also curious - if you went say 40 years without health insurance, and then signed up (before becoming ill) what would the penalty amount per year? How come no one knows the answer to this?

bennyob

Encouraged wrote: »

Yeah, it was that that the OP was asking about. I'm also curious - if you went say 40 years without health insurance, and then signed up (before becoming ill) what would the penalty amount per year? How come no one knows the answer to this?

Extract below from the q&a on https://www.hia.ie/consumer-information/lifetime-community-rating-explained


4. What loadings will apply?
A loading of 2% of the gross premium will apply for every year of age higher than age 34 that an individual has attained when they first purchase inpatient private health insurance after 30 April 2015.

Encouraged

bennyob wrote: »

Extract below from the q&a on


4. What loadings will apply?
A loading of 2% of the gross premium will apply for every year of age higher than age 34 that an individual has attained when they first purchase inpatient private health insurance after 30 April 2015.

Thanks,

So if health insurance costs €500 per year for the everyday cretin who can't look after themselves, then 2% would be €10

Then if I were to go 30 years (from age 35 to 65) before I sign on, would that be:

€10 X 30 = €300

Not too bad at all. I'd just have to give them an extra €300 in 30 years. It's better than spending €15,000

So I save €15,000 - €300 = €14,700

Oral Surgeon

Encouraged wrote: »

Thanks,

So if health insurance costs €500 per year for the everyday cretin who can't look after themselves, then 2% would be €10

Then if I were to go 30 years (from age 35 to 65) before I sign on, would that be:

€10 X 30 = €300

Not too bad at all. I'd just have to give them an extra €300 in 30 years. It's better than spending €15,000

So I save €15,000 - €300 = €14,700

Or if you need health insurance in the meantime you save;

€15000- seriously long wait to see consultant= pain/ progression of disease..../ time off work/ and so many other issues!!

My advice is if you can afford it then get it...

No one can predict when they may need it.

I know of a healthy guy who needed immediate investigation and care. He jsut had some back pain but had he not had vhi, he would not have had a scan so quick and had his malignant cancer diagnosed... he'd be dead with any delays.....

A friend had private health insurance abroad and ended up admitted to a private hospital here for investigations.... He had to pay and claim it back from his insurer himself. The bill would scare most people here.... Anyone here who thinks that they will save the €1k /year fee for when they may need it is only fooling themselves, it'll be used to buy a car/ holiday/ house deposit. Even if you managed to save €15k, a stay in a private hospital, a few scans and interventions would soak that up pretty quick......

bennyob

Encouraged wrote: »

Thanks,

So if health insurance costs €500 per year for the everyday cretin who can't look after themselves, then 2% would be €10

Then if I were to go 30 years (from age 35 to 65) before I sign on, would that be:

€10 X 30 = €300

Not too bad at all. I'd just have to give them an extra €300 in 30 years. It's better than spending €15,000

So I save €15,000 - €300 = €14,700

That's an extra charge of €300 per €500 euro of premium. You will also need to factor in the cost of a suitable plan for your age and also inflation. Health/medical inflation generally is higher than the average inflation rate.

martingriff

Encouraged wrote: »

Thanks,

So if health insurance costs €500 per year for the everyday cretin who can't look after themselves, then 2% would be €10

Then if I were to go 30 years (from age 35 to 65) before I sign on, would that be:

€10 X 30 = €300

Not too bad at all. I'd just have to give them an extra €300 in 30 years. It's better than spending €15,000

So I save €15,000 - €300 = €14,700

Cretins are we please explain how you will stay healthy from diseases such as cancers or tumours that can hit anyone or a freak accident. Sure all above can be treated in public if you can wait I auppose

Encouraged

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Or if you need health insurance in the meantime you save;

€15000- seriously long wait to see consultant= pain/ progression of disease..../ time off work/ and so many other issues!!

But I won't

Encouraged

bennyob wrote: »

Health/medical inflation generally is higher than the average inflation rate.

And I wonder why that is? It probably has something to do with the illusion of progress with modern medicine, that has become a cultural excess. I'll leave the over prescribing the the idiots on the medical cards. I want nothing to do with it.

Look at how much of total GDP those Americans spend on healthcare every year? And yet for a westernised country the life expectancy is pretty low.

Encouraged

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

I know of a healthy guy who needed immediate investigation and care. He jsut had some back pain but had he not had vhi, he would not have had a scan so quick and had his malignant cancer diagnosed... he'd be dead with any delays.....

And now he's on some unhelpful drug with nasty side effects. But they're getting money out of him. Way of the world.

Oral Surgeon

Encouraged wrote: »

But I won't

Oh ok, good argument- you win I guess!!! what would I know....!

Oral Surgeon

Encouraged wrote: »

And now he's on some unhelpful drug with nasty side effects. But they're getting money out of him. Way of the world.

Nope, never said that, he had surgery and is well now.....! Again you know best, carry on.....

Brian201888

joeguevara wrote: »

I have health insurance and pay the lowest fee to Layla. It is simply to get seen in the hospital and once you are in they will treat you.

My mate broke his neck and was on a trolley for 5 days without being treated simply because no health insuarance. If he had he would have had his operation immediately.

The crazy thing was I paid for insurance for my dog and I didn’t have any but I signed up when the penalties were coming in.

The situation you described regarding your mate wouldn't have benefited from health insurance really.

And your cheapest plan possible is a complete waste of money unfortunately.

The public hospital only plans are essentially pointless with the exception of what type of room you'll end up in.

joeguevara

Brian201888 wrote: »

The situation you described regarding your mate wouldn't have benefited from health insurance really.

And your cheapest plan possible is a complete waste of money unfortunately.

The public hospital only plans are essentially pointless with the exception of what type of room you'll end up in.

It is getting into the hospital that is difficult. Any plan can get you private which are the same consultants as public ones. Once you are in then you will get treated.

Peregrinus

Well First Off... wrote: »

As long as I save money over all, that's all I'm really worried about.

Impossible to say, because it depends on factors not yet known.

By not getting health insurance until you are (say) 65 you save on health insurance premiums each year between now and age 65.

As against that, you lose out in two ways:

First, you'll most likely have to pay some health costs between now and age 65 that would have been avoided if you had health insurance. (Or, you'll have to forego treatment that you would have got if you had insurance.)

Secondly, from age 65 on you'll be paying higher premiums each year than you would pay if you had enrolled at the age you are today.

Wil these two things offset the saving in premiums up to age 65? That depends on (a) how sick you get, and how often, between now and age 65, and (b) how long you live after age 65. And of course at this point you can't know the answer to either of those questions.

As far as the insurers are concerned, on average this all nets out. Some people in your position will save money by not enrolling until age 65 and some will lose, and the savings and losses will more or less balance out overall. But the insurers can't identify which particular people will save and which will lose (which is OK - for their purposes they don't need to; it's only the overall picture that matters).

There are a couple of further factors to be considered. If, God forbid, you do get a signfiicant illness before you are 65, and if it's chronic and is going to require assessment and treatment over a prolonged period or for ever, obviously at that point you'll want to take out health insurance. But you'll be hit by "existing conditions" exclusions, which means you'll get no cover for the condition you already have for a period of (I think typically) five years. So for those five years you'll be paying health insurance premiums and your own medical expenses in relation to your chronic condition.

(And, just saying, if you get a catastrophic condition which requires emergency treatment, you'll do fine as a public patient. But if you get a chronic condition requiring regular long-term assessment and treatment, that's when you really feal the difference between being a public patient and a private patient.)

The other factor is the non-financial factor of peace of mind. How much value you place on this is up to you. If you take out the insurance you know that, should you fall ill, you have cover, and this provides a continuing benefit to you even if you never fall ill. If you don't take out the insurance, you don't have this benefit. Which may be fine, if you never worry about falling ill. And I'm not saying you should worry abou this. The benefit of peace of mind is of more value to some people than to others, so you have to think about how you, personally, feel about it.

Encouraged

Peregrinus wrote: »

Impossible to say, because it depends on factors not yet known.

By not getting health insurance until you are (say) 65 you save on health insurance premiums each year between now and age 65.

As against that, you lose out in two ways:

First, you'll most likely have to pay some health costs between now and age 65 that would have been avoided if you had health insurance. (Or, you'll have to forego treatment that you would have got if you had insurance.)

Secondly, from age 65 on you'll be paying higher premiums each year than you would pay if you had enrolled at the age you are today.

Wil these two things offset the saving in premiums up to age 65? That depends on (a) how sick you get, and how often, between now and age 65, and (b) how long you live after age 65. And of course at this point you can't know the answer to either of those questions.

As far as the insurers are concerned, on average this all nets out. Some people in your position will save money by not enrolling until age 65 and some will lose, and the savings and losses will more or less balance out overall. But the insurers can't identify which particular people will save and which will lose (which is OK - for their purposes they don't need to; it's only the overall picture that matters).

There are a couple of further factors to be considered. If, God forbid, you do get a signfiicant illness before you are 65, and if it's chronic and is going to require assessment and treatment over a prolonged period or for ever, obviously at that point you'll want to take out health insurance. But you'll be hit by "existing conditions" exclusions, which means you'll get no cover for the condition you already have for a period of (I think typically) five years. So for those five years you'll be paying health insurance premiums and your own medical expenses in relation to your chronic condition.

(And, just saying, if you get a catastrophic condition which requires emergency treatment, you'll do fine as a public patient. But if you get a chronic condition requiring regular long-term assessment and treatment, that's when you really feal the difference between being a public patient and a private patient.)

The other factor is the non-financial factor of peace of mind. How much value you place on this is up to you. If you take out the insurance you know that, should you fall ill, you have cover, and this provides a continuing benefit to you even if you never fall ill. If you don't take out the insurance, you don't have this benefit. Which may be fine, if you never worry about falling ill. And I'm not saying you should worry abou this. The benefit of peace of mind is of more value to some people than to others, so you have to think about how you, personally, feel about it.

You should be an ambassador for health insurance with all the redundant waffle. Only one piece in there the OP needed to read.

AntiClimax

Peregrinus wrote: »

First, you'll most likely have to pay some health costs between now and age 65 that would have been avoided if you had health insurance. (Or, you'll have to forego treatment that you would have got if you had insurance.)

For Christ's sake, I thought we were past all that. Scare mongering doesn't seem to work with the OP. He obviously has a strong feeling that he will not not be getting sick between now and his 60s.

Am I the only one not pig headed enough to want to know his secret (secrets) for good health? Going without health insurance may actually be a very good way to motivate one to stay healthy. Think about it. What people forget, is that if you get cancer you're fcuked anyway.

Graham

AntiClimax wrote: »

Scare mongering doesn't seem to work with the OP. He obviously has a strong feeling that he will not not be getting sick between now and his 60s.

The OP isn't around any more.

I suspect trolling was reclassified as a medical condition and he's been sent off to join the waiting list for treatment.

Oral Surgeon

Encouraged wrote: »

You should be an ambassador for health insurance with all the redundant waffle. Only one piece in there the OP needed to read.

I'm a great driver and don't plan on having a crash anytime soon and if I do I can afford to fix my car etc.... Why should I bother with car insurance??
BTW- I know that it is a legal requirement.... just saying.....

Encouraged

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

I'm a great driver and don't plan on having a crash anytime soon and if I do I can afford to fix my car etc.... Why should I bother with car insurance??
BTW- I know that it is a legal requirement.... just saying.....

But you are aware of the collusion of the insurance cartel?

The reason drivers are being ripped off is because we're forced to get car insurance. At least that doesn't exist with health insurance.

Oral Surgeon

Encouraged wrote: »

But you are aware of the collusion of the insurance cartel?

The reason drivers are being ripped off is because we're forced to get car insurance. At least that doesn't exist with health insurance.

Yes, I don't live in a cave...

I just pay it and get on with my life....

I'm out....