Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

listermint

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

China, officially the People's Republic of China (PRC), is a country in East Asia and the world's most populous country, with a population of around 1.404 billion.[13] Covering approximately 9,600,000 square kilometers (3,700,000 sq mi), it is the third- or fourth-largest country by total area.[k][19] Governed by the Communist Party of China, the state exercises jurisdiction over 22 provinces, five autonomous regions, four direct-controlled municipalities (Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, and Chongqing), and the special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau.

Is this false info:rolleyes:

Look you've been found out.

China is not a communist country I'm not debating this crap with you anymore. You are being ridiculous.

oscarBravo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Theres a whole load of them working in HP in leixlip, come down the local on a friday and ask them how great norway is, the things they tell you won't be so positive.

If I want to form an opinion of Norway, I'll go to Norway.

I've spent a fair bit of time in Denmark, and rather less in Sweden, and I'd be willing to wager that my knowledge of Scandinavia is somewhat more grounded in reality than what you've managed to glean down the local.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I'd rather some of the people starve than almost all of the people starve.

I'd rather nobody starved, which really isn't all that lofty an ambition, when you think about it.

Cheerful Spring

oscarBravo wrote: »

Ireland, like Norway, is a social democracy. The only people who confuse social democracy with socialism are Ayn Rand fetishists who, frankly, desperately need to spend some time in abject poverty to disabuse them of their bizarre ideas of how the world should work.

That true, but socialism is about helping the ordinary people of the country, rich and poor. We are socialists. Socialism is not bad. The Americans want you believe socialism is an evil and terrible thing.

oscarBravo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That true, but socialism is about helping the ordinary people of the country, rich and poor. We are socialists. Socialism is not bad. The Americans want you believe socialism is an evil and terrible thing.

I prefer the term "social democracy", because describing it as socialism gives the Randites an excuse to gibber about tax being theft and how the poor should just shut up and die, already.

Midlife

Can anyone explain how Venezuela basically has only oil to import and are fooked whereas Saudi Arabia are loaded? Is it just way more people?

Eric Cartman

oscarBravo wrote: »

If I want to form an opinion of Norway, I'll go to Norway.

I've spent a fair bit of time in Denmark, and rather less in Sweden, and I'd be willing to wager that my knowledge of Scandinavia is somewhat more grounded in reality than what you've managed to glean down the local.

I'd rather nobody starved, which really isn't all that lofty an ambition, when you think about it.

well how do we make that happen ?
the nordic countries you praise still have people homeless and starving, its very clear that theres a balance between socialism and capitalism that keeps most people not starving but everyones not exactly happy with it. Too much socialism and everyone starves, too much capitalism and the starving turn to crime.

Cheerful Spring

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I'd rather some of the people starve than almost all of the people starve.

40 million Americans are on the poverty line, according to gov stats over there. They should not lecture other countries about poverty. Instead of wasting 600 million on weapons they should be feeding their people. Do you really believe they need 600 million to fight Isis or just rich men enriching themselves with taxpayer money?

listermint

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well how do we make that happen ?
the nordic countries you praise still have people homeless and starving, its very clear that theres a balance between socialism and capitalism that keeps most people not starving but everyones not exactly happy with it. Too much socialism and everyone starves, too much capitalism and the starving turn to crime.

Are you trying to infer that everyone in a society is happy all the time .?

We've thousands of Irish all over the world that give out about Ireland down the pub in Australia and Canada.

So your Norwegians story doesn't really hold much weight. Random punters with opinions is normal

Eric Cartman

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

40 million Americans are on the poverty line, according to gov stats over there. They should not lecture other countries about poverty. Instead of wasting 600 million on weapons they should be feeding their people. Do you really believe they need 600 million to fight Isis or just rich men enriching themselves with taxpayer money?

less than 10% of americans are on the poverty line, atleast 30 of the 36 million in venezuela are starving / malnourished. Now Im not advocating for the american system , but by metrics of starving people its certainly clear which country is better.

TheValeyard

What other choice does the country have? The people are starving, millions have fled the nation, hyper inflation, economic collapse, political corruption. Another failed socialist state. Add that to the long list of failed nations. The people are going to try give someone else a go who might actually solve some problems. For a country floating in oil it should be the bread basket of South America and not the poor man.

listermint

Eric Cartman wrote: »

less than 10% of americans are on the poverty line, atleast 30 of the 36 million in venezuela are starving / malnourished. Now Im not advocating for the american system , but by metrics of starving people its certainly clear which country is better.

Actually it was 12 four years ago and is up to around 15 now and still going

So erm...

Eric Cartman

listermint wrote: »

Actually it was 12 four years ago and is up to around 15 now and still going

So erm...

fair enough , its still not 83% though.

Cheerful Spring

Eric Cartman wrote: »

less than 10% of americans are on the poverty line, atleast 30 of the 36 million in venezuela are starving / malnourished. Now Im not advocating for the american system , but by metrics of starving people its certainly clear which country is better.

America is a superpower with vast wealth there should be nobody starving or going hungry., 40 million is gov stat so likely to be a lot higher.

Where did you find that stat 30 million people are starving in Venezuela? Feel its extremely high?

I prefer what we have in Ireland a mix of both capitalism and socialism is good.

listermint

Eric Cartman wrote: »

fair enough , its still not 83% though.

Its still 15% in the 'greatest' country in the world. That's a ridiculous stat. And ye complain about scandanavian countries.

Yet they consistently top the polls in best places to live

rossie1977

Venezuela is a totalitarian petrostate run by a crazed dictator.

I know it's a far right talking point in the us and online to use it to highlight that all socialism is evil but it's akin to using Somalia to highlight that small government or libertarian would be terrible.

Cheerful Spring

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

What other choice does the country have? The people are starving, millions have fled the nation, hyper inflation, economic collapse, political corruption. Another failed socialist state. Add that to the long list of failed nations. The people are going to try give someone else a go who might actually solve some problems. For a country floating in oil it should be the bread basket of South America and not the poor man.

Yep if left alone and let them deal with it on their own. I guarantee if America did not sanction them in 2013, they be fine right now.

Bernie Sanders was a social democrat and you saw how he was attacked by the right in America. The Democrat establishment even went as far to rig the primary election and media coverage for Hilary.

Eric Cartman

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yep if left alone and let them deal with it on their own. I guarantee if America did not sanction them in 2013, they be fine right now.

Bernie Sanders was a social democrat and you saw how he was attacked by the right in America. The Democrat establishment even went as far to rig the primary election and media coverage for Hilary.

What, this problem started well before 2013 for venezuela. It's never been a prosperous country for the ordinary people. Successive governments implementing socialist policies have made it infinitely worse before america even gave a toss.

Mutant z

Socialism is a cancer on this planet hopefully the people can rise up and overthrow that horrible government once and all to get out of such a terrible situation not that the lefties will care they will still find a way to blame everyone else anything but their beloved permanently failed ideology.

Cheerful Spring

Mutant z wrote: »

Socialism is a cancer on this planet hopefully the people can rise up and overthrow that horrible government once and all to get out of such a terrible situation not that the lefties will care they will still find a way to blame everyone else anything but their beloved permanently failed ideology.

Socialism
A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

If you believe 1 per cent of the world population are entitled to 50 per cent of the wealth, then socialism is evil and should be eradicated.

Mutant z

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yep if left alone and let them deal with it on their own. I guarantee if America did not sanction them in 2013, they be fine right now.

Bernie Sanders was a social democrat and you saw how he was attacked by the right in America. The Democrat establishment even went as far to rig the primary election and media coverage for Hilary.

The problem is the deranged policies enacted by Maduro which made it into a hell on earth and yet gullible fools like Higgins and Corbyn still believe that's the sort of society we should all follow the credibility of the far left is in complete tatters after this they no longer have any excuses to fall back on when this disaster has been broadcaster for the whole world to see.

Mutant z

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Socialism
A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

If you believe 1 per cent of the world population are entitled to 50 per cent of the wealth, then socialism is evil and should be eradicated.

If mass murder ,Gulags, totalitarian despotism ,economic bankruptcy, mass starvation, political persecution, censorship etc are your things fair enough my standards tend to be somewhat higher than that though.

Kristopherus

listermint wrote: »

Look you've been found out.

China is not a communist country I'm not debating this crap with you anymore. You are being ridiculous.

Would you care to enlighten us what political system operates in China?

Fr Tod Umptious

I don't know why people are saying that if American didn't do this or that they all would be fine.

Last time I checked Venezuela was in Latin America and history has shown that Latin America is one of the most politically unstable regions in the world

A lot of the states there have been independent from Spain or Portugal or France for the bones of 200 years but they have never been stable for any long periods of time since

What is with the former Spanish/French/Portuguese colonies and their inability to hold down stable government compared to the former British colonies of USA and Canada that have thrived since independence

The current strife in Venezuela is just another in a litany of strifes.

Gatling

Where does the tens of billions worth of trade with US go ,
The population is starving yet all we've seen on here it's America's fault,
They were warned decades ago to modernise their oil production and bring diversification to the economy,
But no seems a handful got rich and the majority got poor like every other failed communist holes but as long as a few get chance to bash the US why bother with facts

theguzman

Kristopherus wrote: »

Would you care to enlighten us what political system operates in China?

China is a totalitarian statist free-market society with the "Communist" oligarchs in control of it. Anyone who thinks China is Communist is deluded.

EdgeCase

The problem is not socialism or capitalism. It's authoritarianism, leadership by unaccountable people and flawed or non-existent democracy.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mutant z wrote: »

Socialism is a cancer on this planet hopefully the people can rise up and overthrow that horrible government once and all to get out of such a terrible situation not that the lefties will care they will still find a way to blame everyone else anything but their beloved permanently failed ideology.

China is rocking it.

Regardless of socialism or not it’s hilarious to see the entire US Establishment and media classes, support what is effectively a coup, while still ranting about Russian involvement in their own elections (which didn’t happen of course.)

This will be one thing where the Washington post will support Trump, because he is doing what establishment wants for once.

Franz Von Peppercorn

theguzman wrote: »

China is a totalitarian statist free-market society with the "Communist" oligarchs in control of it. Anyone who thinks China is Communist is deluded.

It’s not communist but it is fairly socialist. About half the economy and most of the banks are either government owned or partially owned State owned enterprises.

thats largely what socialism is traditionally, owning the means of production, it’s not the same as welfarism.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't know why people are saying that if American didn't do this or that they all would be fine.

Last time I checked Venezuela was in Latin America and history has shown that Latin America is one of the most politically unstable regions in the world

A lot of the states there have been independent from Spain or Portugal or France for the bones of 200 years but they have never been stable for any long periods of time since

What is with the former Spanish/French/Portuguese colonies and their inability to hold down stable government compared to the former British colonies of USA and Canada that have thrived since independence

The current strife in Venezuela is just another in a litany of strifes.

You may want to do a tiny bit more research there on American involvement in some of that instability.

Ultimate Seduction

Was Ghadaffis Libya a Socialist state? Thats the only successful one I can think of.