Dealer issue - any advice appreciated

Ziggyj30

Hi All

I bought a lexus is300h in march 2018 and decided to sell it privately in November 2018.
I had a buyer lined up and they were about to buy the car. As a final check they brought it to the lexus garage in deans grange to ensure all was ok with it. The lexus garage there noted a very small crack in the plastic under the bumper and some loose screws on the left side just at the tyre / bumper. They advised the buyer that they "were not sure whether the car had been crashed or not"

I have not had an incident with the car and have never crashed it or come anywhere close. I am concerned though that the garage initially sold me a damaged car. I dont want to mention the name of the garage i bought it from or the year / price of the car. I am very concerned & angered about this and worried about what to do next. Any advice would be very much appreciated

drunkmonkey

Any garage should be able to tell if the car was painted, you should be able to tell yourself if you look hard enough, your looking for things like a spec of dust under the paint, wavy look if you look at it from the side (think orange peel). Over spray where they tried to blend it with the other panels. A garage would 100% be able to tell this, no doubt they had something else there for them to look at.
Paint does not = crashed, it may be just painted because of a scratch. If you were sold a crashed car that's a different story but they would have 100% spotted a cash repair.

JoeA3

It could easily have been just a minor bump. A huge percentage of cars on the road and on dealer forecourts have had some damage repaired. In many cases it’s just superficial stuff, bumper respray, minor wing damage, etc. Sure even clipping a kerb when parking could have caused the underside crack you described. A car picks up scuffs and bumps in its life and minor repairs are common. It’s what keeps body shops in business!

Not sure what you can do to ease the buyers mind though. If the car is otherwise straight and clean what more can you do.

The dealer you bought it from may well have no idea that the car was previously damaged and is unlikely to entertain any suggestion from you otherwise.

colm_mcm

Dealer were only covering their arses.

Tighten up the screws for the next time. Underbody scrapes can happen really easily.

copperhead

Had an issue years ago where I bought a 1 year old car from a main dealer and went to trade it with another garage a year later only to be told I would be given scrap value as the car had been in a fairly serious accident and badly repaired, its always a question I ask when buying a car has it ever been crashed or had paint, some garages will chance their arm

bazz26

And I bet they wouldn't put it in writing either if it came down to it.

Ziggyj30

Cheers for the measured advice. i think the damage was pretty minor if any, probably enough to scare off the buyer though. Will get it fixed and try again, cheers.

colm_mcm

Don’t go mad spending money, buyer may have been overly picky

Ziggyj30

So, I now met a second buyer who really wanted the car. Got it checked by an excellent guy, who used to be a panel beater and has been a mechanic for 35 years. He said the car was definitely crashed and got "a good bang".When I bought it from the garage they did not mention this at all. That has to be either illegal or highly disingenuous. either way I have gone back to the garage and am awaiting a response. Is this all wasted energy? I feel like I am willing to go down a legal route as the car is also still under warranty for one year.

Atlantic Dawn

Have you done any subsequent history check to see if anything shows up for it, that would help your case going back to the dealer as they should have known about it.

Ziggyj30

Yeah I have done motor check but nothing was reported on it. it is reported as having never been crashed. Is the dealer liable here or is it a difficult road? The panel beater / mechanic mentioned it will be very tough to get any come back on it. I am struggling to understand why not though. surely it is illegal for a garage to sell someone a crashed car?

bazz26

Ziggyj30 wrote: »

So, I now met a second buyer who really wanted the car. Got it checked by an excellent guy, who used to be a panel beater and has been a mechanic for 35 years. He said the car was definitely crashed and got "a good bang".When I bought it from the garage they did not mention this at all. That has to be either illegal or highly disingenuous. either way I have gone back to the garage and am awaiting a response. Is this all wasted energy? I feel like I am willing to go down a legal route as the car is also still under warranty for one year.

Who got this expert to check the car out, you or the second buyer?

Ziggyj30

@Bazz26 The second buyer did. But I can easily get him to give me a report.

Squidgy Black

How old is the car? Get it checked yourself by an independent mechanic. Don't go off what the buyer's mechanic says. Good chance they're just using it as a bargaining tool to try and drop the price significantly in the hopes that you'll just desperately shift it on.

bazz26

Ziggyj30 wrote: »

@Bazz26 The second buyer did. But I can easily get him to give me a report.

Get your own independent assessment/report done on the car rather than just taking the word of someone who is paid by a potential buyer and not fully impartial. If you want to pursue this with the dealer then once you have your own independent assessment done then approach the dealer you bought the car from and take it from there. You might find that you may have to go the legal route after that if you have a case.

Ziggyj30

The second buyer didn't know the mechanic. I have 2 independent opinions now that it has been crashed, though no formailzed opinion as yet. Either way I am taking this all the way. Dealers cant be going around selling people crashed cars. Was on to the CCPC today - the garage is in breach of

- Consumer protection act 2007
- Sales of goods and services act 1980
- Section 76 of consumer credit act

Thanks for your advice. I will get a 3rd (independent) assessment done and then take it from there.

Toyotafanboi

I think it's fair to say the car may have a story to tell.

That being said, there's nothing illegal about selling a car that's previously been in an accident once it hasn't been deemed a structural write off. I think if you ask, they have to tell you, but even at that they "may not have known".

Did you buy it from a main dealer or independent dealer? You'd expect something with a clean history from a main dealer to be fair but sometimes when you see a fairly new vehicle for sale outside the dealer network, you often have to wonder why it's there.

Ziggyj30

yeah I bought it from a very reputable main dealer in Dublin. I was also advised else where that it seems acceptable for garages to sell damaged and subsequently repaired cars, although I don't actually agree with this on principle, either way are they not obliged to disclose this to the prospective buyer?

JoeA3

Ziggyj30 wrote: »

yeah I bought it from a very reputable main dealer in Dublin. I was also advised else where that it seems acceptable for garages to sell damaged and subsequently repaired cars, although I don't actually agree with this on principle, either way are they not obliged to disclose this to the prospective buyer?

You can’t be sure that they knew. “Crashed” is a very strong term.

I said this in my earlier post but a significant percentage of cars sustain damage in their lifetime. The damage is often relatively superficial - even replacing damaged panels could be considered relatively minor. If the job is done to a very good standard, you’d be very very hard pressed to tell.

So that car may have been traded to that dealer in good faith and it could be that as far as they’re concerned, the car was genuine. Not sure how you could prove otherwise.

I don’t think there’s any record kept of crashed cars in Ireland either? I know in the U.K. a car could be declared a “CAT D” or whatever, assuming of course the accident is officially recorded.

Years ago, about 4 cars back, I was hit in a carpark. The damage appeared very light, light dents and scratching on my driver's door. The other guy admitted liability and it all went through his insurance. The car was relatively fresh and the bodyshop advised that I should have the door skin replaced. Which I did. So it actually became a very expensive job for what was a minor tip. I was worried, but it turned out a perfect job, I couldn't tell it had been done. I traded the car on a long time later, I didn't mention that damage. I'm sure the dealer wouldn't have cared much either way.

Having said that, you've had a mechanic tell you your car has had a "good bang"... You'd want to see a full report on it to see how he comes to that conclusion.