My OH and best friend’s wife

Questioning sacred Cows

Hi there. Newbie to posting on boards but a long time lurker. I’m in a dilemma here and it’s coming to a head.

Basically, my other half who I love dearly is intensely disliked by the wife of my best friend (we’ve been mates since age 11 and that’s nearly 30 years now). It’s very distressing for me and I feel under a lot of pressure. On the one hand, my first and foremost loyalty is to my partner, and our relationship, but on the other hand my best mate is someone I don’t want to lose.

It all started a few short years ago, not long after my mate got married. His wife took ill and was in hospital for quite a while and only a good bit afterwards my mate disclosed that his wife had an ectopic pregnancy and had to have emergency surgery.

Before my mate disclosed this, (it’s important to note the before part) whilst over in our house on a social visit, my OH asked my mate and his wife if they would be getting a bigger car, as they might need it if and when children came along. His wife after my OH made this very innocuous comment couldn’t leave our house fast enough, making an excuse that she forgot about some appointment and needed to leave ASAP. They both left.

It was only a good bit after this that I learned that my partner wasn’t welcome in my mates house as his wife took an intense dislike to my partner. I find this very unfair and hurtful on the part of his wife, but I don’t want to jeopardise my friendship with my mate.

I’ve tried to broach this issue with my mate but he tries to change the subject and says his wife is not for turning on the issue. I feel in a very difficult and awkward position as does my mate.

This evening my OH and I had a heated argument in the car on a trip about this stupid situation. I’ve tried to stay friendly and cordial to all parties involved but feel that I have to pick and choose.

This is really upsetting me.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

qwerty13

Personally, I’d find a statement/question like your wife made really intrusive, and I would not be impressed. Unless however there had previously been a history of chats between the 4 of you re wanting kids / when you or they might start trying.

I know not everyone would agree, but I absolutely hate questions about relationships that put people on the spot / make them feel pressured to disclose more than they might feel ok saying. Whether that’s moving in / engagement / marriage / kids.

I think your wife overstepped the boundaries, and as it turned out she overstepped in the worst way - it was an incredibly sensitive topic. And that’s why you simply don’t go there unless you really know the lay of the land.

Having said that, she clearly wasn’t being malicious. I think there’s fault on both sides tbh. Your wife seems, based on your OP, to have overstepped in her nosiness. And a clearly very upset woman took more offence to that than perhaps is warranted.

salmocab

It sounds to me like your wife made the type of comment women make all the time, I wouldn’t be bothered about the friends wife she’s not your problem. If it affects your friendship with your mate explain that as far as your concerned that comment is all that happened and if he’s pissy about just that then he’s probably just taking her side out of a sense of duty.
It was an inocous enough comment and whilst I can see why she was initially upset about it if she’s harboring a grudge I’d say you’d be best off without her in your life.

Loveinapril

You and your friend don't need your wives to be friends. Yes it would be nice but some people just don't gel. You were friends before your wives so just keep your relationship between the two of you.

Reati

Loveinapril wrote: »

You and your friend don't need your wives to be friends. Yes it would be nice but some people just don't gel. You were friends before your wives so just keep your relationship between the two of you.

Exactly. Imo your wife didn't little. Yes, it was an unfortunately timed comment but let's be honest people say these things as most people in that situation plan to have kids. She didn't know something was wrong. Your friends wife is clearly and understandable sensitive to the topic but I'd hazard a guess this wasn't the one thing that pushed her over the edge.

My mates wife and mine don't get on in any shape or form. They just don't gel and It has no bearing on our friendship and certainly doesn't affect it.

Avoid setting down battle lines and declaring where you loyalty lies is a dangerous old game. You can't make everyone happy and might end up making everyone unhappy.

searay

1 in 6 couples have issues conceiving and the most innocent or well meaning comment can come across as hurtful and insensitive if made at the wrong time. A female is also likely to be far more hurt as women talk more about babies etc and PMS, periods, hormones and fertility treatments etc increase the sensitivity levels.

We men have no idea. My wife hit some very serious lows when we were going through fertility treatment before eventually having successful IVF.

Your OH’s comments were insensitive and the ectopic pregnancy and possibly other factors may have made the timing awful to the other side.

I think your wife should apologise and tell her she’ll be more sensitive going forward.

If the recipient doesn’t accept that, then you and your friend are going to have to accept that the friendship is compromised. I think it would be very unfair on your wife if his wife can’t try to put it behind her.

Sardonicat

searay wrote: »

1 in 6 couples have issues conceiving and the most innocent or well meaning comment can come across as hurtful and insensitive if made at the wrong time. A female is also likely to be far more hurt as women talk more about babies etc and PMS, periods, hormones and fertility treatments etc increase the sensitivity levels.

You're right. You don't. All of the above do not explain grudge holding over an innocuous remark by an unknowing party. While I certainly can understated upset at the time to hold a grudge against someone who knew nothing of the recent tragedy is utterly ridiculous and uncalled for.

I think you can be friends with your mate and be loyal to your wife. I'd feel sorry for your mate TBH, he must have to walk on eggshells constantly.

Xterminator

Hi Op

Its pretty clear your not going to repair the relationships.

so just keep your friendship and your wife seperate. Go out or over to his, dont have the mate over. No need to discuss your mate with your iwfe or vice versa.

OldMrBrennan83

Your friend's wife sounds soon highly strung to ever see things being right again, so I'd focus attention on how you and your friend can stay doing things instead of wasting time trying to mend bridges that can't be mended.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Nothing whatsoever wrong with your partner's comment, just unfortunate timing. Sounds like your friends partner is the unreasonable one. As said above, you don't need OH's to love each other to continue to be mates.

lawred2

I wouldn't be bothered trying to repair anything. For such hatred to develop from such a relatively innocuous if inane comment is ridiculous. Presuming you were both fully unawares of what they were going through of course.. Nobody is a mind reader.

Forget about her and keep the relationship with your mate. Don't upset your own wife stressing about it

LegacyUser

Why does it matter if your OH and your mates wife don't get on? You don't have to spend time as couples, just hang out with your mate without partners. Sure it would be nice if you all got on but some people just don't and trying to force the issue or playing the who was right game is just asking for trouble. As long as you and your mate don't get dragged into a contest over whose OH is in the right etc etc and the more you hang out as a foursome the more and more likely that is to happen.

Sinead Mc1

I think grudges should only be held when it comes to comments with Ill intent.
Although I'm super careful never to comment on the baby/pregnancy thing, loads of women do.
I totally understand them up and leaving that day, and I do think your wife should apologize, but saying your wife is not welcome in the house is a bit over the top.
Id be quite upset if I was your wife. I don't think she deserves to be ostracized like this.
Hopefully I'm not being insensitive when I say, is it possible this woman is continuing to struggle to conceive. She may be acting out a little bit over that?

lawred2

Sinead Mc1 wrote: »

I think grudges should only be held when it comes to comments with Ill intent.
Although I'm super careful never to comment on the baby/pregnancy thing, loads of women do.
I totally understand them up and leaving that day, and I do think your wife should apologize, but saying your wife is not welcome in the house is a bit over the top.
Id be quite upset if I was your wife. I don't think she deserves to be ostracized like this.

Without serious justification I couldn't accept my wife making such an edict about my best mate's wife. It would want to be genuinely warranted and then I would fully support her. An ill judged but unknowing comment like the OP's wife would not for me be justification for such upset and discord.

The OP's mate is a bit wanting here as well I think

beertons

Happens all the time. My friends don't call to my house, I suspect their wives don't like mine. Sure her friends might not like me. How bad, just meet them on your own.

seamus

At the base level I'd say just don't meet up with the wives in tow. It's more common in my experience for married couples to go meet their mates without the other halves, than to always be meeting up as couples.

That said, it seems like a very extreme reaction for a single incident. Did they get on before this incident? Does your wife have a reputation for making well-meaning comments delivered bluntly and insensitively? Is there anyone else that you know of whom your wife has fallen out with?

My wife has two friends who are fairly regularly falling out because one is a tiny bit oversensitive and the other one is incapable of opening her mouth without the contents of her brain falling out. Comments include remarking that the other woman's child's name was a bit "travellery", and that she needed to loosen up in the bedroom to stop her boyfriend texting other women.

.......

Why is this an issue? Your wife doesnt need to be friends with your friends wife, or even friends with your friend?

I dont like some of my friends partners - so I just dont hang around with them.

What exactly is the problem that you and your wife are fighting over?

(incidentally I think your wife spoke out of turn but it wasnt malicious - good lesson to her not to make flippant comments about other peoples reproductive processes though!)

Muckka

My brother's always putting his foot in it unintentional might I add.
It took me year's to accept it.
People sometimes mean well, but unfortunately we don't all know what triggers other people.

strandroad

Your wife's remark was dim but also extremely common and ultimately well-intentioned. Your mate's wife's reaction was over the top but she might be quite scarred for all we know. I agree that it's best to apologise once and keep them apart.

What does your wife want you to do that causes you two to argue? Does the situation make her feel like a pariah? How do you normally meet with your friend, does he insist on house visits at his? Do you have kids yourselves?

meeeeh

The comment your OH made was unfortunate but it's possible your friend's wife didn't like her anyway and this just intensified everything.

Anyway the reason is irrelevant, they won't suddenly become friends because they have nothing else in common besides their partners being friends. It's perfectly possible and even healthy to maintain your own friendships, meet your friends without oh joining you.

Big Bag of Chips

Why do your wives need to be friends?

dudara

Your wife made one of those silly kid comments that people make all the time. Nothing wrong or malicious there, albeit a bit ham-fisted.

Unfortunately, it resonated badly with your friend's wife, but her reaction is on her. Perhaps with a cooler mind, she could have realised that there was no ill-will.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that there is obligation for the two of them to get on. Maintain your friendship separately.

.......

meeeeh wrote: »

...but it's possible your friend's wife didn't like her anyway...

^^ This is probably the case.

SusieBlue

...my OH asked my mate and his wife if they would be getting a bigger car, as they might need it if and when children came along.

I don't think this is an unreasonable or even insensitive comment to make at all.
It would be a bit different if she had said "Ye will need a bigger car for when ye have children"...But that's not what was said.

Seems like your wife was just making an observation and using common sense during a conversation about buying a car.
She wasn't to know about the ectopic pregnancy or the turmoil they were going through.

Its very important to consider intent in these kinds of scenarios, and your wife had absolutely no ill intent here. She was simply making an observation.

It would be different if she was repeatedly making "wink wink nudge nudge" type comments about making babies over a sustained period of time, but that isn't what happened. It was one throwaway comment with no offense meant at all.

I think your friends wife completely overreacted due to how sensitive she was feeling at the time, and it sounds like she probably didn't like your partner much anyway and is using this as an excuse to justify it.
I wouldn't even bother trying to rectify the issue at this point, too much water under the bridge.

You and your friend can continue your friendship without your wives. There is no need for them to be involved.

osarusan

As long as it doesn't impact on your friendship with him, I don't really see the problem.

I hope none of the four of you think that you and him have to give up your friendship with each other out of some kind of loyalty to their partner.

wiggle16

qwerty13 wrote: »

Personally, I’d find a statement/question like your wife made really intrusive, and I would not be impressed. Unless however there had previously been a history of chats between the 4 of you re wanting kids / when you or they might start trying.

I know not everyone would agree, but I absolutely hate questions about relationships that put people on the spot / make them feel pressured to disclose more than they might feel ok saying. Whether that’s moving in / engagement / marriage / kids.

I think your wife overstepped the boundaries, and as it turned out she overstepped in the worst way - it was an incredibly sensitive topic. And that’s why you simply don’t go there unless you really know the lay of the land.

Having said that, she clearly wasn’t being malicious. I think there’s fault on both sides tbh. Your wife seems, based on your OP, to have overstepped in her nosiness. And a clearly very upset woman took more offence to that than perhaps is warranted.

Are you joking? I can't think of a more innocuous question to ask. It's not intrusive at all. There is a difference between nosiness and taking an interest in other people's lives. Honestly.

OP's wife was not to know that this couple were having fertility issues. The friend's wife overreacted, and even though her upset is understandable, it's not the OP's wife's fault and the friend's wife has created and is responsible for this issue. It is obviously difficult for her but she was wrong to project that onto your wife. You cannot expect people to respect "boundaries" that you have not made them aware of. It's a ridiculously oversensitive and self involved perspective.

OP, if i were you I would stop pushing this issue. You cannot force your friend's wife to get along with your wife, it's clearly just the kind of person she is, your wife is probably not the only person she has treated in this way. I don't really see why it has to be an issue or why you would lose your friend over it... your wives were not friends. They don't have to see each other socially. Yes, it would be nice if they could bury the hatchet, but as long as they are not making it difficult for you and your friend to see each other, I would leave it be. Focus on maintaining your friendship, not with repairing the issue. You'll only drive a wedge between you and your friend by pushing this. He's not going to side with your wife against his.

Keyzer

searay wrote: »

Your OH’s comments were insensitive and the ectopic pregnancy and possibly other factors may have made the timing awful to the other side.

I think your wife should apologise and tell her she’ll be more sensitive going forward.

If the recipient doesn’t accept that, then you and your friend are going to have to accept that the friendship is compromised. I think it would be very unfair on your wife if his wife can’t try to put it behind her.

Sorry but this advice is utter nonsense - the OP and his wife had no idea what was going on with the friend and his wife.

People make comments about kids all the time, "When are you having kids?", "When is number two coming along?". These comments are, for the most part, made in good will with no malice.

If they had known then it would be extremely insensitive but they didn't, so give them a break for gods sake.

Sounds to me like your mates missus is just looking for a reason not to be friends.

ManOfMystery

I don't see anything wrong with what the OP's wife said, and if this happened before the ectopic pregnancy as stated then she can't be held to blame for something she knew nothing about. It was a harmless comment that isn't an unusual one.

Your friend's wife's overreaction to this comment is strange, is there any chance it's something else? Have they any other history of not getting on etc?

.......

Keyzer wrote: »

People make comments about kids all the time, "When are you having kids?", "When is number two coming along?". These comments are, for the most part, made in good will with no malice.

Seriously - these are terrible comments to make!!

You have no idea if a couple cant have kids, doesnt want to have kids, has just lost a pregnancy.....

My rule of thumb is not to mention anything about pregnancy or future kids unless I can actually see a babies head coming out of the womans vagina.

OldMrBrennan83

....... wrote: »

Seriously - these are terrible comments to make!!

You have no idea if a couple cant have kids, doesnt want to have kids, has just lost a pregnancy.....

My rule of thumb is not to mention anything about pregnancy or future kids unless I can actually see a babies head coming out of the womans vagina.

So what? If you can't then say you can't and it won't be mentioned again. People aren't mind readers.

.......

Patww79 wrote: »

So what? If you can't then say you can't and it won't be mentioned again. People aren't mind readers.

I would imagine a lot of people who cannot have children do not want to share their private medical info to that effect to all and sundry.

It could be something that upsets them horribly.

And you can be absolutely guaranteed that the next question out of the mouth of the eejit asking inappropriate questions would then be "oh really, is it him or you who cant? Shooting blanks is he???".

Its just not a conversation route that people should go down tbh. Its bad mannered and insensitive.

mloc123

Patww79 wrote: »

So what? If you can't then say you can't and it won't be mentioned again. People aren't mind readers.

It's nobody elses business tho. It is an intrusive question that some people think is okay to ask.

Loveinapril

....... wrote: »

I would imagine a lot of people who cannot have children do not want to share their private medical info to that effect to all and sundry.

It could be something that upsets them horribly.

And you can be absolutely guaranteed that the next question out of the mouth of the eejit asking inappropriate questions would then be "oh really, is it him or you who cant? Shooting blanks is he???".

Its just not a conversation route that people should go down tbh. Its bad mannered and insensitive.

Absolutely this. I have friends who struggled/ are struggling to conceive and it is a hugely emotional topic for them. A friend of mine spent 5 years going through treatment with several failed attempts to concieve her baby and even though people close to her know this, they still talk about possible siblings. She often has to remove herself from situations to cry.

I had a miscarriage shortly after I got married so any comments about when we were having children killed me because I had just lost a much wanted baby and obviously didn't know whether it would happen for us again. I find any questions about fertility/ possible babies to be hugely intrusive. It is often a throwaway comment but if it can cause someone a huge amount of pain, just stay away from the topic unless they bring it up.

OP, your wife was obviously well meaning but often something like this happens and it just ensures that she will be more careful about comments like that in the future.

OldMrBrennan83

mloc123 wrote: »

It's nobody elses business tho. It is an intrusive question that some people think is okay to ask.

People always ask things like that though, it's hardly worth banning them from crossing the front door again over.

.......

Patww79 wrote: »

People always ask things like that though, it's hardly worth banning them from crossing the front door again over.

I wouldnt be bothered entertaining an insensitive bad mannered person in my home - would you?

mloc123

Patww79 wrote: »

People always ask things like that though, it's hardly worth banning them from crossing the front door again over.

Not saying it is reason to end a friendship. I am just saying it is a intrusive question and one best not to be asked. People that have never had first hand experience of miscarriage, trouble concieving etc.. don't seem to get that.

OldMrBrennan83

....... wrote: »

I wouldnt be bothered entertaining an insensitive bad mannered person in my home - would you?

I would not, though I think we have vastly different views on what constitutes one.

meeeeh

mloc123 wrote: »

Not saying it is reason to end a friendship. I am just saying it is a intrusive question and one best not to be asked. People that have never had first hand experience of miscarriage, trouble concieving etc.. don't seem to get that.

I have quite a bit of experience of miscarriage and I think the reaction was over the top. Neither would I be offended by question/statement like that. In fact the comment would go completely over my head. You can wallow in self pity only for so long.

Anyway even if the comment is hurtful there is a difference between intentionally hurtful comments and slip of a tongue. Rationally approaching it one should be able to get over it if they like the person. If they don't no apology will change their mind.

Jurgen Klopp

It's very simple. You and your friend carry on visiting and meeting up as normal.

If either of your wives say anything just say "if ye don't get on that's up to yourselves, myself and John are off to the pub"

Don't even get into it

wiggle16

Mod note:

Alright, enough back and forth in the thread. Before posting, ask yourself if your post is intended to help the OP, or if you are only trying to make a point to another poster. If your post does not contain constructive advice for the OP, please do not post. Anything else is going off topic.

Thanks

skallywag

meeeeh wrote: »

I have quite a bit of experience of miscarriage and I think the reaction was over the top. Neither would I be offended by question/statement like that. In fact the comment would go completely over my head. You can wallow in self pity only for so long.

A big +1 to that.

We've also ridden a similar roller-coaster and neither of us would even dream about reacting that way to such an innocuous comment.

OP, I would wager a hefty sum that there is more in play here than this comment alone. Perhaps something that you may not even be aware of?

StinkyMunkey

Sounds like your mates wife is a very bitter person.

People talking about other people having kids who are in relationships go hand in hand. Is society gone so mad that mentioning Childern to couples is a taboo subject.

The comment was made unfortunately at the wrong time, but with zero malice. Some people go out of their way to be offended, your mates wife fits in with this.

Your wife doesn't need a friend where she has to walk on egg shells for fear of offending, do your wife a favour and don't put her in a position where she has to be in this persons company. Best you don't be in her company either.

Can't say I envy your mate, but they say "love is blind". Keep your friendship separate from his wife.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

From who are you feeling pressure? Does your partner expect you to end the friendship or make attempts on her behalf to change the other woman's mind? What makes you think this is coming to a head ?

I'd be in the camp that stays the eff away from that subject altogether unless the other person opens it, there's too much potential to cause hurt. But your mate's wife's reaction to it makes no sense. At first I was thinking "maybe the poor woman is in bits altogether and just fixating on that comment", but I'd missed that this all happened years ago.

It doesn't seem credible that someone would so totally and immediately cut someone out for that, but it does make sense as a comment that would crystallise in someone's head "You know what, I cannot be bothered with that woman".

It's unfortunate and the rights and wrongs of the comment could be debated til the cows come home but they're actually irrelevant. You're grown men, you're independent human beings, not a unit with your respective partners. Go down the bloody pub and stay out of it. I guarantee no good will come to you by staying involved.

MiliMe

....... wrote: »

I wouldnt be bothered entertaining an insensitive bad mannered person in my home - would you?

These people are friends, its not a random stranger on the street coming up and querying the wifes fertility.

While in this particular instance i can see why the friends wife got upset, the comment was, in my opinion, in no way terrible enough to warrant OP's wife being banned from the friends home.

OP, while it may be difficult, try to keep the wives issue separate to you and your friends relationship. There has to be more to your wifes banishment than just one comment, so leave them be if you can.

Rubberchikken

people cant watch every word out of their mouths. especially on what some might consider a delicate subject.
be friends with your friend. accept that your friends wife will probably never like your oh and move on.
this woman seems to be willing to take an innocent remark too far so probably not worth bothering about.

Wheety

This is why people should mind their own business and not keep asking people when they're going to have children. Myself and my wife are trying but it's not happening and it's not nice when people keep on at us to have children.

Ursus Horribilis

Wheety wrote: »

This is why people should mind their own business and not keep asking people when they're going to have children. Myself and my wife are trying but it's not happening and it's not nice when people keep on at us to have children.

Absolutely. Babies and why they're not appearing on the horizon is a subject people should stay away from. It can be a very sensitive and upsetting topic. Having said that, I get the impression that this row was the straw that broke the camel's back rather than a one off. Seeing as this has festered for a long time now, I can't see these two women ever kissing and making up. Whatever was going on in the background has probably grown legs in the meantime and now is a monster. Even if they ever manage to let bygones be bygones, they will never be comfortable in each other's company. All I can advise you to do is meet with your friend by yourself and not as a foursome. I assume your partner isn't trying to stop you from socialising with him/them?

Big Bag of Chips

Wheety wrote: »

This is why people should mind their own business and not keep asking people when they're going to have children.

And when you have 1, you're asked when a brother or sister is coming along. If you have boys 'you have to go for the girl' and vice versa. If you're lucky and get 1 of each 'you can stop now'.

It is unending.

You say this happened a few years ago, and you and your wife still argue over it. Why? Who brings it up and why?

There are two people involved and it sounds like your friend's wife has no intention of speaking to your wife again, so you two arguing about it is not going to change that. You have no control over how that woman chooses to react.

If you are the one bringing it up, drop it.
If your wife is the one bringing it up, even after years, then maybe she needs to understand that perhaps the way she deals with people and situations is not ideal. I feel out with someone 2 years ago. We have managed to avoid anything to do with each other in that time, and I'm not even sure if anyone knows we've fallen out!

2 people don't get on. It's time for you and your wife to accept that. You can socialise with your friend without your wives. I have a best friend of almost 30 years. Our husbands know each other but certainly wouldn't be friends or socialise together. I go out with her, without them.

qwerty13

Rubberchikken wrote: »

people cant watch every word out of their mouths. especially on what some might consider a delicate subject.
be friends with your friend. accept that your friends wife will probably never like your oh and move on.
this woman seems to be willing to take an innocent remark too far so probably not worth bothering about.

People can watch what they quiz others about, if they have a bit of sensitivity and tone down the nosiness. Such questions can be hurtful. Why do people persist in asking intrusive Qs tho. I just don’t get it.

BuboBubo

Keyzer wrote: »

Sorry but this advice is utter nonsense - the OP and his wife had no idea what was going on with the friend and his wife.

People make comments about kids all the time, "When are you having kids?", "When is number two coming along?". These comments are, for the most part, made in good will with no malice.

If they had known then it would be extremely insensitive but they didn't, so give them a break for gods sake.

Sounds to me like your mates missus is just looking for a reason not to be friends.

Maybe she just doesn't like your wife, for any number of reasons. Some people just don't like each other and don't want to spend time in each other's company.

OP, I wouldn't push the issue, continue socialising with your mate, But as you chose your buddy, let your wives choose theirs.

It's a pity they don't get along, but unfortunately sh1t happens.

Questioning sacred Cows

<Snip> deleted quoted troll reply
Anyway, thanks a million for all the advice. My wife (prefer on this forum to call her my OH) did not know about my mate's wife's ectopic pregnancy at the time she asked about them getting a bigger car for when children came aling. It really was an innocous question. She certainly meant no ill intent whatsoever. My wife is decent, genuinely good person.

My OH is not the only person among my circle of friends that my mate's wife dislikes - she had taken a dislike to the wife of another mate, who had 2 children in rapid succession ar close to 40 after 6 years of marriage. She also dislikes another friend from abroad - why I do not know as he is a decent chap.

I believe my mate's wife has issues but I'n not going to be the one to broach that subject with my mate. I value our friendship too much.

Personally, I think my mates wife completely over-reacted and holds unreasonable grudges and my wife is unhapoy about that but what can I do in fairness?