Contributory pension very complicated

sellasheep

I'll be 66 in June 2019. I have just received my PRSI record. I entered the system in 1978 and have 18 contributions ORD for that 1 year. Then there is a huge gap as I worked on my father's farm. My next full stamp at 52S from 1993 as I was self employed. From 1993 onwards I have 52S every year except 96-99 and 2017 and 2018. So 5 years missing from 1993. The problem is will they calculate my pension from 1978 or will they start from 1993 onwards? And I have zero stamps in 2017 and 18 is this a problem? What am I entitled to?

I've 1110 total contributions and when I divide by amount of years which is 40 I get 27. So I'll only get €207 a week?

hawthorne

sellasheep wrote: »

I'll be 66 in June 2019. I have just received my PRSI record. I entered the system in 1978 and have 18 contributions ORD for that 1 year. Then there is a huge gap as I worked on my father's farm. My next full stamp at 52S from 1993 as I was self employed. From 1993 onwards I have 52S every year except 96-99 and 2017 and 2018. So 5 years missing from 1993. The problem is will they calculate my pension from 1978 or will they start from 1993 onwards? And I have zero stamps in 2017 and 18 is this a problem? What am I entitled to?

I've 1110 total contributions and when I divide by amount of years which is 40 I get 27. So I'll only get €207 a week?

The DoSP starts the calculation with the person entering the system. In your case this is 1978.
It is rather unfortunate that you have such a big gap between 1978 and 1993. This brings your average contribution count a good bit down.
Your calculation is correct. You are entitled to Euro 207 a week.
You might get a bit more if you qualify for the non-contributory pension. This is a means tested payment.


Consider yourself lucky. Under the proposed new total contribution system you would be only entitled to about Euro 129.
However this system is not fully in place yet and you just make it over the line to get a higher pension than those who come after you with a similar amount of contributions like yourself.

splinter65

Apply for both Con and Non Con and you can of course take whichever is better.
Apply soon now as they’re a bit behind at the moment.

notharrypotter

sellasheep wrote: »

I'll be 66 in June 2019?

Interesting, 2 years ago you were 28 and looking for car insurance.
Are you asking on behalf of someone?

BowWow

notharrypotter wrote: »

Interesting, 2 years ago you were 28 and looking for car insurance.
Are you asking on behalf of someone?

Kigera

hawthorne wrote: »

The DoSP starts the calculation with the person entering the system. In your case this is 1978.
It is rather unfortunate that you have such a big gap between 1978 and 1993. This brings your average contribution count a good bit down.
Your calculation is correct. You are entitled to Euro 207 a week.
You might get a bit more if you qualify for the non-contributory pension. This is a means tested payment.


Consider yourself lucky. Under the proposed new total contribution system you would be only entitled to about Euro 129.
However this system is not fully in place yet and you just make it over the line to get a higher pension than those who come after you with a similar amount of contributions like yourself.

Can i ask how you got the figure of 129 euro please.

muffler

notharrypotter wrote: »

Interesting, 2 years ago you were 28 and looking for car insurance.
Are you asking on behalf of someone?

I'll see your 28 and raise you "Im 73 and on full pension" from last year

nim1bdeh38l2cw

muffler wrote: »

I'll see your 28 and raise you "Im 73 and on full pension" from last year

"I'm 29 and have thinning hair on my crown heading towards the middle of my scalp." from 7 months ago. We seem to have found Dr Who chaps!

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Is the OP Benjamin Button?

Rackstar

Does the OP work for welfare and get posters on here to figure out what people are entitled to?

BowWow

https://extra.ie/2018/09/16/tech/facial-id-system-saves-state-e4m-in-welfare-fraud

FACIAL ID SYSTEM SAVES STATE €4M IN WELFARE FRAUD
By Gordon Deegan -16/09/2018

Facial imaging software deployed by the Government to crack down on welfare scams has already exposed 28 cases of identity fraud, saving the State more than €4million.

The system, introduced in 2012, uses photographs taken of social welfare recipients to detect any cases of people claiming payments using more than one identity.

In the first six months of this year, the system has saved the State more than €330,000.

hawthorne

Kigera wrote: »

Can i ask how you got the figure of 129 euro please.

The new system for the contributory pension is based on your total lifetime contributions over 40 years.
A full 40 years of contributions will give you the full pension at a value of currently about 243 euro.
OP claims to have 1110 contributions. That is about 53.36% of the full 40 year contribution
(40 years x 52 weeks = 2080 contributions).
53.36% of the full rate of about 243 euro is about 129 euro.

Simple mathematics really....

Big difference to the old method of calculation for a lot of people. They will come to a very rude awakening.

Kigera

A very big difference indeed unfortunately I will be affected by this . Thanks for explanation.

Cant understand why then the Government made up the difference or are in the process of making up the difference of approximately 35 euro per week for those who fell short in the last changes. Yet this will make a much greater difference to those after 2020.

Also wondering when retirement age changes to 67/68 in the coming years will they count contributions right up to that age as I think they currently stop counting them at 65.

Will credits be given for homemakers prior to 1994 also.

splinter65

Kigera wrote: »

A very big difference indeed unfortunately I will be affected by this . Thanks for explanation.

Cant understand why then the Government made up the difference or are in the process of making up the difference of approximately 35 euro per week for those who fell short in the last changes. Yet this will make a much greater difference to those after 2020.

Also wondering when retirement age changes to 67/68 in the coming years will they count contributions right up to that age as I think they currently stop counting them at 65.

Will credits be given for homemakers prior to 1994 also.

A perceived injustice was done to those (mostly women) applying for pensions after September 2012 and so their pensions are being recalculated but any arrears are only being backdated to last March not 2012.
Under the new regime up to 20 years will be allowed for parents who were at home caring for under 12s or disabled children or elderly or infirm adults.
The 1994 bit is being removed.

hawthorne

Kigera wrote: »

A very big difference indeed unfortunately I will be affected by this . Thanks for explanation.

Cant understand why then the Government made up the difference or are in the process of making up the difference of approximately 35 euro per week for those who fell short in the last changes. Yet this will make a much greater difference to those after 2020.

Also wondering when retirement age changes to 67/68 in the coming years will they count contributions right up to that age as I think they currently stop counting them at 65.

Will credits be given for homemakers prior to 1994 also.

Calculation time is 40 years. If you have reached your 40 years by the age of 66, the calculation stops there. Any additional year clocked up cannot increase your pension. If you have not reached your 40 years by the age of 66, the calculation can of course go on until you reach your own pension age of 67 or 68.
You also have the possibility of getting up to 10 years of credits given in times of unemployment taken into account. You can use up to 20 years spent on JB/IB/carer's/child raising on your pension calculation.

One of the many reasons for introducing this new system is the ever increasing number of pensioners. The new system is geared to force people to take alternative methods to care for their own pension.
I expect more savage changes in the future. I.e. increasing the entrance age to the pension to 70 years- or more. Increasing the minimum paid contributions to 15 years. They were already raised from 5 to 10 years in the last few years. Spain is already at 15 years.

gustafo

i know people who have never worked a day in there life been on the dole most of it, now they are pension age and they get the non con pension not much of a difference from what people who worked all there lives get/

Great little country isn't it

splinter65

gustafo wrote: »

i know people who have never worked a day in there life been on the dole most of it, now they are pension age and they get the non con pension not much of a difference from what people who worked all there lives get/

Great little country isn't it

Elderly people have to live. We can’t leave people with nothing.

Gael23

Can you get credits for time spent oh Jobseekers Allowance?

splinter65

Gael23 wrote: »

Can you get credits for time spent oh Jobseekers Allowance?

It all depends what you were doing immediately before you got the Allowance.

Gael23

splinter65 wrote: »

It all depends what you were doing immediately before you got the Allowance.

I was working all year minus a week until September

KevinK

For the new proposed contributory pension, are years where you earned less than 52 credits still counted?

For example I earned 43 credits last year, but only 10 in 2018 as I was abroad. Will these two years count as fulfilling one year if the 40 needed or will I need to earn 52 credits In 40seperate years?

Also I have some years where I yearned more than 52 credits, presume this is of no benefit to me..

hawthorne

KevinK wrote: »

For the new proposed contributory pension, are years where you earned less than 52 credits still counted?

For example I earned 43 credits last year, but only 10 in 2018 as I was abroad. Will these two years count as fulfilling one year if the 40 needed or will I need to earn 52 credits In 40seperate years?

Also I have some years where I yearned more than 52 credits, presume this is of no benefit to me..

Your contributions are counted by week in the new system- not by year.
You get the full pension when you have 2080 contributions/credits accumulated and reached the age of 66.
It is a proposal only and used at the moment in parallel with the old average system. We don't know what will happen in the future.

How did you manage to get more than 52 credits in one year? Two full time jobs for some weeks?

KevinK

hawthorne wrote: »

Your contributions are counted by week in the new system- not by year.
You get the full pension when you have 2080 contributions/credits accumulated and reached the age of 66.
It is a proposal only and used at the moment in parallel with the old average system. We don't know what will happen in the future.

How did you manage to get more than 52 credits in one year? Two full time jobs for some weeks?

Thanks for this, that’s great to know. Have a few years with less than 52 weeks credits and was worried they wouldn’t count for anything. But obviously understand it’s not confirmed yet.

Essentially yes with the more than 52 credits per year, combining my job as a teacher with work in the family business.

pelargonium

That's very interesting. I never knew it was possible to get more than 52 credits in a year.

If state entitlement operates on the basis of the number of credits rather than years of contributions, does this mean that it'd be possible to build up the full 2,080 credits normally accumulated over 40 years in less than that?
(e.g. if you had two jobs, both paying full PRSI, could you build up your full contributory pension in 20 years?)

Do the credits need to be in separate classes?

Is this a loophole, a widely known feature of the system, or something that if it sounds too good to be true...?

gerrybbadd

Lots of very strange posts from the OP.

So he has a 80 year old Granny, while being 73 himself, or sometimes 29, with thinning hair, was left 35K by a 95 year old friend who spelled his surname wrong on the will, has had various positions of employment with various issues, has worked cash in hand all his life, is having problems getting the old age pension - did i miss anything?

mp22

Only that they are banned

KevinK

pelargonium wrote: »

That's very interesting. I never knew it was possible to get more than 52 credits in a year.

If state entitlement operates on the basis of the number of credits rather than years of contributions, does this mean that it'd be possible to build up the full 2,080 credits normally accumulated over 40 years in less than that?
(e.g. if you had two jobs, both paying full PRSI, could you build up your full contributory pension in 20 years?)

Do the credits need to be in separate classes?

Is this a loophole, a widely known feature of the system, or something that if it sounds too good to be true...?

I’m not sure it is possible to get more than 52 in a year. When I check online there are two columns . One is headed contributions and one is titled reckonable contributions. The reckonable one never goes over 52, so I am guessing my extra ones are just ignored!

ttsnar

Only a max of 52 can be used.