Can you afford a home in Ireland?

Elessar

Goodbody just released a new assessment of the housing market that states while more houses are slowly being built, the majority are well out of reach of most people:

In 2018, 31% of new houses sold were for more than €350,000, up from just 23% in 2017. In Dublin, more than half of new homes were sold for more than €350,000, and one in five were for over €500,000.

To get a mortgage for a 350k house you would need a joint income of at least 90k + 35k deposit. But I don't know where these 350k houses are in Dublin because even where I live, 20km from the city center, all new builds are over 400k. Meaning a 40k deposit and over 100k joint income. I've seen quite a few 500k+ builds aswell - requiring a 130k joint income aswell as 50k deposit.

Two features are particularly striking in the data. Firstly, there is a very large proportion of the population who cannot afford to get on the housing ladder without significant outside support, be it from the Government or family and friends.

Assuming joint income earners on the same income, roughly half of the 1.5 million notional couples have a joint income of less than €45,000 per year.

Assuming these couples can raise a 10% deposit, the maximum they can afford for a house is €175,000. The private market cannot deliver homes at this price point.

The second observation relates to how the numbers drop off substantially once household income rises above €110,000. This couple can theoretically borrow enough to purchase a house worth €430,000, with a 10% deposit. Just one-in-10 couples could afford to pay this price, yet one-in-six new houses this year were sold above this value.

It's clear that construction costs (and profit margins) are so high that building houses that average people can afford is not viable. Meaning 1.5 million people will potentially be relying on government subsidised housing, most I assume, in Dublin.

Yet, anecdotally, all of the 400k+ houses in my area have sold and even this far from the CC there is huge demand - so clearly, a lot of people can still afford these prices.

I know the even with a relatively well paid job in IT I cannot afford to buy a home. What about other boardsies?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Elessar wrote: »

Goodbody just released a new assessment of the housing market that states while more houses are slowly being built, the majority are well out of reach of most people:


To get a mortgage for a 350k house you would need a joint income of at least 90k + 35k deposit. But I don't know where these 350k houses are in Dublin because even where I live, 20km from the city center, all new builds are over 400k. Meaning a 40k deposit and over 100k joint income. I've seen quite a few 500k+ builds aswell - requiring a 130k joint income aswell as 50k deposit.



It's clear that construction costs (and profit margins) are so high that building houses that average people can afford is not viable. Meaning 1.5 million people will potentially be relying on government subsidised housing, most I assume, in Dublin.

Yet, anecdotally, all of the 400k+ houses in my area have sold and even this far from the CC there is huge demand - so clearly, a lot of people can still afford these prices.

I know the even with a relatively well paid job in IT I cannot afford to buy a home. What about other boardsies?

What, you have a right to own a house now...?

How much do you think you should be earning before being offered a mortgage?

Have a mortgage for the last 2 and a half years, North West Wicklow. Paying less for the mortgage per month (4 bed semi) than the rent we paid for a one bed apartment in Rathmines in 2007.

Peatys

There's houses in miller's glen in swords for 320k op.
Swords express will have you into the city centre in less than 30min.
You're welcome.

Pawwed Rig

Peatys wrote: »

There's houses in miller's glen in swords for 320k op.
Swords express will have you into the city centre in less than 30min.
You're welcome.

Swords is a great spot. Proper town full of facilities.

StereoSound

I wish I could afford my own home, I have a good paying company job and self employed at the same time in a growing business, and yet the banks won't touch me for 350 - 400k mortgage. I'm ****ed to my eye balls paying landlords rent for years to come.

sydthebeat

Almost 40% of the costs of building a house goes back to the government / state bodies in some form.... Be it VAT, income tax, prsi, development contributions, connection fees etc.

If the government wanted houses to be more affordable is within their gift to do that tomorrow.

They don't however, because:
1. They get nearly 40% from every house build
2. People are still purchasing at these levels
3. They say they are afraid builders will pocket the savings due to 2 above.

gozunda

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What, you have a right to own a house now...?

How much do you think you should be earning before being offered a mortgage?

No but if you don't work or come from else where you can get one handed to you by all accounts ....

Peatys

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Swords is a great spot. Proper town full of facilities.

Pavilions, airside, airport, m1, sure where else would you be

Try_harder

Reader, I bought one

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Can you afford to buy a house?
Well obviously people can, as the houses are being bought and most are as owner occupied.

Buy where and what you can afford.

NSAman

Save save and save again is the key.

Just bought another house as my retirement plan for cash. OK it is a fixer upper, but I will save for a complete renovation and even then do a lot of the work myself. There are ways and means if you want to roll up your shirt sleeves and work at it.

Trigger Happy

When I was first buying 15 years ago my parents lamented that they were glad they did not have to buy in this market- the prices been so high.
I reckon I will be saying the same to my kid when he gets to thinking about buying.

cherryghost

Right now I probably couldnt. I got a house 3 years ago just around the time of major uptick in house prices so I consider myself very lucky.

Cianos

StereoSound wrote: »

I wish I could afford my own home, I have a good paying company job and self employed at the same time in a growing business, and yet the banks won't touch me for 350 - 400k mortgage. I'm ****ed to my eye balls paying landlords rent for years to come.

How much do you make in both, if you don't mind my asking (ballpark?)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

gozunda wrote: »

No but if you don't work or come from else where you can get one handed to you by all accounts ....

Really? Perhaps the OP should emigrate, wait a while then return home.

gozunda

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Really? Perhaps the OP should emigrate, wait a while then return home.

Nope that won't work I'm afraid. Move abroad and work - then come home and you're deemed non resident for welfare purposes afaik ...

Government priority in housing at present appears to be for social housing only. Affordable housing for those working but unable to afford housing in areas within reach of their employment doesn't exist for some reason ...

Try_harder

gozunda wrote: »

Nope don't work I'm afraid. Move abroad and work - then come home and your deemed non resident for welfare purposes afaik ...

start working and building up your stamps

Social Housing is hardly aspirational

gozunda

Try_harder wrote: »

start working and building up your stamps Social Housing is hardly aspirational

That was a comment on the status quo not any 'personal' situation tbh. As for 'aspirational' - Magaret Cash et al seems to be aspiring alright. How's your 'stamps' (sic) btw?

Wildly Boaring

Does your job HAVE to be in Dublin?

Even the title says "In Ireland"

Have a mate in IT he recently bought a lovely house by the sea in Sligo and will work from home.

Plenty places 30 mins from Cork, Limerick, Galway are affordable

Wheeliebin30

NSAman wrote: »

Save save and save again is the key.

Just bought another house as my retirement plan for cash. OK it is a fixer upper, but I will save for a complete renovation and even then do a lot of the work myself. There are ways and means if you want to roll up your shirt sleeves and work at it.

That’s the problem nowadays.

People want everything now with a click of their finger.

No working towards anything or saving, it’s all about the now.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

gozunda wrote: »

Nope don't work I'm afraid. Move abroad and work - then come home and you're deemed non resident for welfare purposes afaik ...

Government priority in housing at present appears to be for social housing only. Affordable housing for those working but unable to afford housing in areas within reach of their employment doesn't exist for some reason ...

So... He doesn't even need to move abroad? He just... stops working? And the state gives him the deeds to a house...?!

weldoninhio

Elessar wrote: »

Goodbody just released a new assessment of the housing market that states while more houses are slowly being built, the majority are well out of reach of most people:


To get a mortgage for a 350k house you would need a joint income of at least 90k + 35k deposit. But I don't know where these 350k houses are in Dublin because even where I live, 20km from the city center, all new builds are over 400k. Meaning a 40k deposit and over 100k joint income. I've seen quite a few 500k+ builds aswell - requiring a 130k joint income aswell as 50k deposit.



It's clear that construction costs (and profit margins) are so high that building houses that average people can afford is not viable. Meaning 1.5 million people will potentially be relying on government subsidised housing, most I assume, in Dublin.

Yet, anecdotally, all of the 400k+ houses in my area have sold and even this far from the CC there is huge demand - so clearly, a lot of people can still afford these prices.

I know the even with a relatively well paid job in IT I cannot afford to buy a home. What about other boardsies?

If evictions were quicker and houses were sold ASAP, prices would fall. This craic of having to wait 4/5 years to evict someone is ridiculous.

Atoms for Peace

Social division is going to skyrocket if something isn't done, just browse through the recent threads on here there a seething undercurrent of resentment from taxpayers.
I get angry myself when skangers seemingly act with impunity yet expect everything for free, but work hard and you get hit from all sides with little in return.

myshirt

Peatys wrote: »

There's houses in miller's glen in swords for 320k op.
Swords express will have you into the city centre in less than 30min.
You're welcome.

Except they are not 320.

Wanderer78

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

No working towards anything or saving, it’s all about the now.

It's funny how many working people can't afford to buy a house, isn't it!

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's funny how many working people can't afford to buy a house, isn't it!

It is an issue, but it took me 20 years from my first starting work to afford my own little place.

I was in my 40s before I had my own house. Just because you are earning decent money does not entitle anyone to a house.

Yes I am lucky now, I own quite a few homes, but that is due to working my ass off and saving and a change in my circumstances brought about by chance, luck and work and using my brain.

It is never easy starting out in life and that first purchase is always going to be the hardest. My only advice to anyone (as everyone is different) is to work hard, save and dont expect the glossy shiny house, buy what you can afford and still save.

stateofflux

I wish posters would stop with the 'buy where you can afford shtick'..it implies things are the same as they always were...which is not true.

It is a fact that cost of living has become disproportionate with earnings since the crash with salarys staying fixed for the most part and cost of living rising

This coupled with lack of housing supply & lending rules has made it a lot harder to afford a home in a liveable area.

I would guess the cash buyers now have been saving for a long time and/or have family cash support..

Its gonna get a lot worse before it gets better..

Would not be surprised with govt being shamed into proper action with embarrassing housing/homeless headlines in world media

Keatsian

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Does your job HAVE to be in Dublin?

Even the title says "In Ireland"

Have a mate in IT he recently bought a lovely house by the sea in Sligo and will work from home.

Plenty places 30 mins from Cork, Limerick, Galway are affordable

And if they lose that job they'll have a massive problem because there aren't a wealth of jobs of any description, IT or otherwise, in that part of Ireland.

Elessar

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What, you have a right to own a house now...?

How much do you think you should be earning before being offered a mortgage?

What? Troll harder, or better still read the OP.

Peatys wrote: »

There's houses in miller's glen in swords for 320k op.
Swords express will have you into the city centre in less than 30min.
You're welcome.

Em, where exactly?

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/new-homes-for-sale/millers-glen-millers-glen-swords-dublin-99487/

The whole point is it is becoming impossible for the average person to buy a home due to costs spiralling out of control. I can see a situation where costs are so great that it becomes commercially unviable to sell houses for less than 500k. Meaning even couples on above average salaries will rely on state house building.

Wheeliebin30

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's funny how many working people can't afford to buy a house, isn't it!

No what’s funny about it?

Go to Germany Sweden etc the majority don’t own a house.

Wheeliebin30

stateofflux wrote: »

I wish posters would stop with the 'buy where you can afford shtick'..it implies things are the same as they always were...which is not true.

It is a fact that cost of living has become disproportionate with earnings since the crash with salarys staying fixed for the most part and cost of living rising

This coupled with lack of housing supply & lending rules has made it a lot harder to afford a home in a liveable area.

I would guess the cash buyers now have been saving for a long time and/or have family cash support..

Its gonna get a lot worse before it gets better..

Would not be surprised with govt being shamed into proper action with embarrassing housing/homeless headlines in world media

There is a reason it’s hard to get a mortgage now.

Something about a bailout and recession.

Do we want another one?

Try_harder

gozunda wrote: »

That was a comment on the status quo not any 'personal' situation tbh. As for 'aspirational' - Magaret Cash et al seems to be aspiring alright. How's your 'stamps' (sic) btw?

Well as I work I have a full set. I wouldnr want Ms Cashs life or home

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote:

It is an issue, but it took me 20 years from my first starting work to afford my own little place.

It's well documented now that productivity across many sectors has dramatically increased over the last couple of decades, but wage inflation has remained relatively low, couple this with rapid asset price inflation, particularly in housing, and you ve a problem. I.e. people are working harder than ever, but the ability to buy a home is moving further from their abilities. This is a different era, even though I'm sure buying a home has always been difficult, including for previous generations, we have a very different set of circumstances now, which is causing a divide amongst us, whereby many older generations have multiple properties, and many younger generations are struggling to get a foot hold in the market, some simply never will.

bennyineire

Change the title to "Dublin" please.

Plenty of affordable housing outside of Dublin, I'm really getting sick of people using prices from Dublin as the yard stick for Ireland.

There was an article last year in the Irish Times of some lad from Dublin who married a girl from Latvia who then emigrated there with her.
He lamented that he could buy a house 1 hour outside of Riga but he couldn't afford a house in Dublin, eh did he every try 1 hour outside of Dublin

Keatsian

bennyineire wrote: »

He lamented that he could buy a house 1 hour outside of Riga but he couldn't afford a house in Dublin, eh did he every try 1 hour outside of Dublin

Popular commuter towns in Kildare, Meath and Wicklow are all pricey, and can take 60-90minutes to commute from during peak times.

Dravokivich

What's all this talk about joint income?

iamtony

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What, you have a right to own a house now...?

How much do you think you should be earning before being offered a mortgage?

What are you one of these people who think renting for the rest of your life should he the norm. People want to eventually own their own home of course they do. In a society where renting is the norm all the landlords get wealthy while the common folk have to pay rent out of their pensions and live on peanuts.

I think the problem is not enough emphasis on saving, it should be drilled into us by our parents and by schools, personal finance should be a class.
Will power is a big issue. We should of all saved at least 30% of our pay since we left school but goin out an gettin out of it every weekend is the norm. P. S I include myself in this bracket when I was younger. And ordering food and wearing designer gear and iPhone etc. just basically not budgeting.
Social norms are ruining it not the government.

Edit. Basically the point I'm making is people need a bigger deposit then they can borrow earning less money.

Wanderer78

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Go to Germany Sweden etc the majority don’t own a house.

This may very well be the case, but I'd imagine there's far better protection laws for both property owners and tenants in these countries, we ve implemented policies that exposes both parties, which is having a detrimental effect on both, this has become a gigantic mess, with no clear solutions

Greyfox

I earn 28,000 a year and can't afford to go back to college so unless I marry a rich woman I'll never own a house. Years ago you could have an ok job and afford a house, now only the well off can afford a house and that's the sad reality of Ireland. enjoying life while your not too old is what matters, what's the point in working and studying your arse off if your miserable all the time

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's well documented now that productivity across many sectors has dramatically increased over the last couple of decades, but wage inflation has remained relatively low, couple this with rapid asset price inflation, particularly in housing, and you ve a problem. I.e. people are working harder than ever, but the ability to buy a home is moving further from their abilities. This is a different era, even though I'm sure buying a home has always been difficult, including for previous generations, we have a very different set of circumstances now, which is causing a divide amongst us, whereby many older generations have multiple properties, and many younger generations are struggling to get a foot hold in the market, some simply never will.

It was the same when I purchased. Which is only in the past 12 years. I simply couldn’t afford a home despite everyone else owning multiple properties.

I SHOULD have just got the mortgage when they were handing them out hand over fist before the crash, but simply thought that house prices were overvalued (which I think they are now and I think there will be another crash globally). I waited.

It is never easy getting that first house. Patience and buying when you can afford was my mantra. It is not easy when you have a family I agree.

The current situation is a little different than previously, but the old adage of saving for the rainy day still are still the key words for achieving goals.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Elessar wrote: »

What? Troll harder, or better still read the OP.



Em, where exactly?

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/new-homes-for-sale/millers-glen-millers-glen-swords-dublin-99487/

The whole point is it is becoming impossible for the average person to buy a home due to costs spiralling out of control. I can see a situation where costs are so great that it becomes commercially unviable to sell houses for less than 500k. Meaning even couples on above average salaries will rely on state house building.

I read the OP - he expects a house based purely on having a job. Doesnt work like that. You're not entitled to the deeds of a house purely because you have a salary.

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote:

The current situation is a little different than previously, but the old adage of saving for the rainy day still are still the key words for achieving goals.

Unfortunately we re now in a situation where saving for a rainy day is becoming impossible for many young people, as many simply require all their income to survive, what a mess.

I have family living in London, none of their adult kids can afford to move out, there are now 6 adults living in a relatively small house, with no prospects of moving into a place of their own, including rental. Major cities of ours such as Dublin are heading down this road.

Day Lewin

Property is much, much cheaper outside of Dublin. Rural Ireland, lots of houses available.

Agreed, there are snags attached, like having to commute for work and having dam' all public transport. But there are still options for creative thinking.

Repeat three times: MUCH CHEAPER OUTSIDE DUBLIN (and other main cities) - yes, you can afford a home in Ireland.

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfortunately we re now in a situation where saving for a rainy day is becoming impossible for many young people, as many simply require all their income to survive, what a mess.

I have family living in London, none of their adult kids can afford to move out, there are now 6 adults living in a relatively small house, with no prospects of moving into a place of their own, including rental. Major cities of ours such as Dublin are heading down this road.

Spot on post. But there are alternatives to the larger cities.

I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland. I took a chance and this chance has paid off more than I could ever imagine. I see the same situations in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles.

This will continue. Larger cities cost more, have homes that are part time user needs. Dublin is no different. There is a fluid class of individuals who work in capital cities. If you can orientate your life to avoid larger cities do so.

I left to live in a rural area of the US and can work basically from anywhere. I work hard and save my ass off so now I have the ability to retire back home/retire part-time here, or even work into my older age.

If there is one thing that I have learned from all of this, it is patience. Be self reliant and never try to follow what everyone else is doing.

_Kaiser_

I could probably get a mortgage, but not anywhere suitable for work or family, and so what's the point?

As it is I live an hour away from work and a bit more than that from my son and so driving is a must (and expensive!). On top of that I am single so don't have the joint income needed these days, and no way to save with the expense of rent, a young child, and commuting costs. Both parents are dead so no "free money" deposits there either, which long term doesn't really help the market either as it skews the real figures people have/can afford.

I'd be on "good money" too given the supposed average figures that are often quoted, but realistically I'm probably going to be stuck renting for a long time yet.

The irony of all this is that back in the Good Times I used to get calls fortnightly offering me money for a mortgage or anything else I wanted really.. But I didn't want to live in the middle of nowhere then either (friends were moving out to places like Wexford, Ratoath, Cavan which were very different in the mid-90s) and I worried about how I'd pay for it if something happened to my income so I declined the offers.

As it turns out however, I (and everyone else!) has ended up paying for it anyway, and even more since the rental market has gone insane in the last few years.

I should have just taken every cent I was offered and cried foul when it all fell apart. Seems to have worked for others.

Sonics2k

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I read the OP - he expects a house based purely on having a job. Doesnt work like that. You're not entitled to the deeds of a house purely because you have a salary.

OP literally never said that though. The OP pointed out the basic joint income requirements to even be considered for a mortgage is very high, which it frankly is.

I'm in the process of getting a mortgage now and the absolute truth of the matter is that it never would have happened if numerous family members didn't gift us small amounts to help us get just the basic deposit of €22k.

Even then, it massively limits the choices of houses we'll be spending our lives in.

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote:

I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland. I took a chance and this chance has paid off more than I could ever imagine. I see the same situations in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles.

It's great to hear of your successes but moving away isn't always an option for some, for various reasons, some simply don't have this option, some simply don't want to, social mobility isn't exactly clear cut, money is required, qualifications are probably a must, some simply don't have these things to do so

Keatsian

Day Lewin wrote: »

Property is much, much cheaper outside of Dublin. Rural Ireland, lots of houses available.

Agreed, there are snags attached, like having to commute for work and having dam' all public transport. But there are still options for creative thinking.

Repeat three times: MUCH CHEAPER OUTSIDE DUBLIN (and other main cities) - yes, you can afford a home in Ireland.

So the solution is for everyone to move to remote rural areas with non-existent public transport and commute via car for several hours daily. We can house thousands of people down some country road in Longford. Do you people even think for a nanosecond before suggesting these things?

andekwarhola

If I remember correctly, there's still places you can buy around the 300 mark and under but they're in perfectly OK but unfashionable places like Lucan, Swords, Citywest, (old) Tallaght etc


There still a leftover feeling in Dublin, perhaps because so many people were brought up in areas that they can no longer afford, that there is some type of right to conveniently located properties in trendy areas.

Dublin has become a modern capital with a cost of living and wages to match so unfortunately, like people in other such cities, you now have to go for what you can afford and if neccesaary, buy further out or take a chance of less fashionable areas.

I do agree though that the social housing fudge by successive governments have left an entire sector of society stuck between exorbitant private rental and not being able to afford to buy.

Keatsian

NSAman wrote: »

Spot on post. But there are alternatives to the larger cities.

I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland. I took a chance and this chance has paid off more than I could ever imagine. I see the same situations in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles.

This will continue. Larger cities cost more, have homes that are part time user needs. Dublin is no different. There is a fluid class of individuals who work in capital cities. If you can orientate your life to avoid larger cities do so.

I left to live in a rural area of the US and can work basically from anywhere. I work hard and save my ass off so now I have the ability to retire back home/retire part-time here, or even work into my older age.

If there is one thing that I have learned from all of this, it is patience. Be self reliant and never try to follow what everyone else is doing.

Young Irish people just don't seem to understand you should save up and buy a house in a rural location in a completely different country. Problem solved.