Commencement notice, garage and porch

2019

Hi, i was approved planning for an 8x8 garage and i will be building a 35sq mtr garage along with a 2x2m porch. My engineer advised me that i didnt need planning for the extension or the porch and after some research, i found this to be the case.

We will be starting the works in late spring for the garage and the following year, we will build the extension and porch. What we want to know, with us opting-out of the assigned certifier, would we still need construction drawings for the garage and the rest of the works or could we proceed with the planning drawings. This garage is straight forward. Its an 8x8m square block and render and will either use strip footings or a raft whichever is cheaper. The roof will either be a trussed roof or cut roof and is a peaked gable. The ground conditions where the garage will be built are good, and is covered in 804 since the house was built in 1997. We have still to price up the foundations, however what others are saying is that when one takes everything into consideration, ie the garage floor, mesh, stones etc.. then there would only be a thousand or 2 difference between a raft and footings.

One question i have in mind is that the cavity in the detached garage is 200mm. This seems strange since there wont be any insulation between the doubled skin block. I will be asking my engineer could i reduce this to the old 100mm cavity without it effecting my planning. I dont know why the engineer designed it this way. I cant ever recalling seeing a garage with such a wide cavity if no insulation or itll be getting used as a residential space.

About the commencement notice. We will be submitting online over the holidays and correct me if im wrong, but once commencement notice is in, after 14 days we will be able to proceed with building and wouldnt need to start straight away.

My cousin and his buddies will be building the garage. They all work in construction and are upto date with the building regulations!

Gileadi

Commencement notice, you can’t start before 2 weeks from date of commencement notice but you do have to start before 4 weeks. How likely this is to be enforced is questionable.

A 64m2 (8x8m) garage will not be planning exempt btw.

2019

Gileadi wrote: »

Commencement notice, you can’t start before 2 weeks from date of commencement notice but you do have to start before 4 weeks. How likely this is to be enforced is questionable.

A 64m2 (8x8m) garage will not be planning exempt btw.

Planning was got in mid 2017.

I was of the thinking that once commencement notice lodged, i could start whenever i wanted before the planning runs out in 5 years. What your telling me is once i lodge it with the council, i cant start for 14 days but not after 1 month. Essentially your saying i only have 2 weeks which i can start or the commencement notice is invalid! Whoever came up with this ridiculous idea!

Gileadi

It’s not entirely ridiculous, a purpose of the notice is to alert the building control authority (local council) that you are beginning the works so that they have the opportunity to inspect for compliance with the building regulations.

As you say you have planning for 5 years, how else will they know when you are actually carrying out the works?

I’m not entirely sure if you start and stop the works over a prolonged period that you would need to resubmit notices, but I don’t think it would be high on any bodies radar.

Also, if the garage is uninhabited, consider hollow blocks wall as opposed to cavity wall? Be a hell of a lot quicker to build

Gumbo

2019 wrote: »

About the commencement notice. We will be submitting online over the holidays and correct me if im wrong, but once commencement notice is in, after 14 days we will be able to proceed with building and wouldnt need to start straight away.

My cousin and his buddies will be building the garage. They all work in construction and are upto date with the building regulations!

Sorry, you will not be lodging a notice over the holidays as the BCMS sustem is shut down until the new year. Then you can lodge giving 14 days notice of commencement and maximum of 28 days notice.

If you don’t plan on starting until late spring, then wait h til late spring to lodge the notice.

Lumen

If you're going to have a cavity, a wider one (within reason) seems sensible. If it subsequently needs insulating, pumping 200mm is obvs. better than 100mm.

Gileadi

Anything over 150mm would need the wall ties to be designed by an engineer, the cost for the longer ties added to the cost of the number of ties would be excessive for a non habitable space imo. OPs call though

Lumen

Gileadi wrote: »

Anything over 150mm would need the wall ties to be designed by an engineer, the cost for the longer ties added to the cost of the number of ties would be excessive for a non habitable space imo. OPs call though

Sure, but the 200mm was the engineer's idea according to the OP.

2019

kceire wrote: »

Sorry, you will not be lodging a notice over the holidays as the BCMS sustem is shut down until the new year. Then you can lodge giving 14 days notice of commencement and maximum of 28 days notice.

If you don’t plan on starting until late spring, then wait h til late spring to lodge the notice.

Thank you Kceire, i was wanting to lodge it in my free time over the holidays but if i have to wait until late spring, i will do it then. What happens if i lodge the notice, wait the 14 days but for some reason i dont start before the 28days, will it need to be re-submitted again after this period.

2019

Gileadi wrote: »

It’s not entirely ridiculous, a purpose of the notice is to alert the building control authority (local council) that you are beginning the works so that they have the opportunity to inspect for compliance with the building regulations.

As you say you have planning for 5 years, how else will they know when you are actually carrying out the works?

I’m not entirely sure if you start and stop the works over a prolonged period that you would need to resubmit notices, but I don’t think it would be high on any bodies radar.

Also, if the garage is uninhabited, consider hollow blocks wall as opposed to cavity wall? Be a hell of a lot quicker to build

I didnt know hollow where still available. Arent they more susceptible to damp though? What about roof loads if i was to add a room above for storage or a gym. Maybe even raised collars for more of a ceiling height in parts. Can the hollow blocks take this lateral load.

I didnt think it was possible to change to hollow blocks if there was a cavity on my planning.

If i need to submit everytime i start and stop, i would want to know this. I wouldnt want to get into any trouble with the local authorities.

2019

Lumen wrote: »

If you're going to have a cavity, a wider one (within reason) seems sensible. If it subsequently needs insulating, pumping 200mm is obvs. better than 100mm.

Lumen wrote: »

Sure, but the 200mm was the engineer's idea according to the OP.

Gileadi wrote: »

Anything over 150mm would need the wall ties to be designed by an engineer, the cost for the longer ties added to the cost of the number of ties would be excessive for a non habitable space imo. OPs call though

I didnt ask for a 200mm cavity. I dont know why the engineer put one in because i would have been ok with a 100mm cavity. This is a detached garage for one car or a van, storage and maybe a gym. At a latter date i might install a small lift when i have the funds. I didnt ask for any insulation in the planning stage or was even asked did i need it. 200mm cavity seems excessive to me just for a garage. 100 or even 150mm would been ok.

I didnt know the 200mm cavity would need more costly ties and designed by an engineer. Maybe this was his reason to get paid more for his services! Crafty!!
I have already paid him for the planning stage but if its possible, can i reduce down to a 100mm cavity without changing my planning with the council. Do i even need construction drawings now that i have the plans that was submitted to the council with all the measurements on it.

As i noted in the OP, this is a basic garage, one roller door, one door and window rendered with a wet dash with a peaked roof. My site is flat, the elevations of the garage are the same as house. The ridge will be the same height as the house. There are no houses near me for 500m on each side.

Gumbo

2019 wrote: »

Thank you Kceire, i was wanting to lodge it in my free time over the holidays but if i have to wait until late spring, i will do it then. What happens if i lodge the notice, wait the 14 days but for some reason i dont start before the 28days, will it need to be re-submitted again after this period.

Yes. After the 28 days the CN expires. It’s worth noting that the planning contributions section works off CN’s lodged too so once you lose they will be in contact if any contributions are due.

Gumbo

2019 wrote: »

I didnt ask for a 200mm cavity. I dont know why the engineer put one in because i would have been ok with a 100mm cavity. This is a detached garage for one car or a van, storage and maybe a gym. At a latter date i might install a small lift when i have the funds. I didnt ask for any insulation in the planning stage or was even asked did i need it. 200mm cavity seems excessive to me just for a garage. 100 or even 150mm would been ok.

I didnt know the 200mm cavity would need more costly ties and designed by an engineer. Maybe this was his reason to get paid more for his services! Crafty!!
I have already paid him for the planning stage but if its possible, can i reduce down to a 100mm cavity without changing my planning with the council. Do i even need construction drawings now that i have the plans that was submitted to the council with all the measurements on it.

As i noted in the OP, this is a basic garage, one roller door, one door and window rendered with a wet dash with a peaked roof. My site is flat, the elevations of the garage are the same as house. The ridge will be the same height as the house. There are no houses near me for 500m on each side.

The engineer has probably just designed it to the best standards possible. It may be used as a cosy little man cave in the future.

In saying that, putting in a 100mm cavity or indeed and 150mm cavity will not effect your planning permission as long as location, appearance, heights etc are all complied with.

2019

kceire wrote: »

The engineer has probably just designed it to the best standards possible. It may be used as a cosy little man cave in the future.

In saying that, putting in a 100mm cavity or indeed and 150mm cavity will not effect your planning permission as long as location, appearance, heights etc are all complied with.

A man cave would be nice however adding an extra 100mm all around the garage was unnecessary IMO. If and when i need a man cave, i can insulate with internal boards. No need for the 200mm cavity.

2019

kceire wrote: »

Yes. After the 28 days the CN expires. It’s worth noting that the planning contributions section works off CN’s lodged too so once you lose they will be in contact if any contributions are due.

Do i need to renew at different sates. If i submit the commencement notice and get the 450wide x 250mm thick footings laid in the 2 weeks window and dont go back to build the block and finish the slab until late summer, will i need to submit again.

Does contributions have to be paid before i start or can they be paid at each stage.

Gumbo

2019 wrote: »

Do i need to renew at different sates. If i submit the commencement notice and get the 450wide x 250mm thick footings laid in the 2 weeks window and dont go back to build the block and finish the slab until late summer, will i need to submit again.

Does contributions have to be paid before i start or can they be paid at each stage.

One you start you are deemed commenced. There’s no time limit on commencement notices once you start. You can build a block a day should you decide to.

Planning contributions are technically due before you start but most LA’s will allow a phased payment plan.

2019

kceire wrote: »

One you start you are deemed commenced. There’s no time limit on commencement notices once you start. You can build a block a day should you decide to.

Planning contributions are technically due before you start but most LA’s will allow a phased payment plan.

Thank you.

I will need to edit my last post because if im correct in thinking, the building regulations min here in Ireland for footings is 300mm thickness and its width is 3 times its depth. From ground level 600min to the bottom of the footings! Apologizes!

Gumbo

2019 wrote: »

Thank you.

I will need to edit my last post because if im correct in thinking, the building regulations min here in Ireland for footings is 300mm thickness and its width is 3 times its depth. From ground level 600min to the bottom of the footings! Apologizes!

Your engineer will design that structural item.