Hiding being gay

Gael23

Not sure if I’ve the right title on this thread but here goes.
I’ve come to the conclusion I’m more turned on by a man than a woman and to date have only engaged in intimacy with a man.

But the thought of never being a dad bothers me a bit and I guess is making me disguse it a little.
Has anyone else ever felt like this or am I just being silly?

Rick_

Who says you can't be a father? Just because a man can't get pregnant doesn't mean you (and a future partner) won't be able to bring up a child of your own.

Gael23

PFMC84 wrote: »

Who says you can't be a father? Just because a man can't get pregnant doesn't mean you (and a future partner) won't be able to bring up a child of your own.

Your talking about adoption?

Ten of Swords

No you're not silly for feeling that way, there have been posts along those lines on this forum before so plenty of other people can relate.

What do you mean 'disguise it a little'? Does that mean you are not out to anyone?

Skatedude

Gael23 wrote: »

Your talking about adoption?

Adoption, artificial insemination with a surrogate mother etc. There are options available

Gael23

Ten of Swords wrote: »

No you're not silly for feeling that way, there have been posts along those lines on this forum before so plenty of other people can relate.

What do you mean 'disguise it a little'? Does that mean you are not out to anyone?

Correct I’m not.
I mean loving a lie I guess or something similar to that and being your typical father of 2.2 kids or whatever.

Heebie

Gael23 wrote:

But the thought of never being a dad bothers me a bit and I guess is making me disguse it a little. Has anyone else ever felt like this or am I just being silly?

Adoption or surrogacy.
Adoption is better for society. There are plenty of kids who need parents, and too many people in the world already... but both are options you have.

Gael23

Heebie wrote: »

Adoption or surrogacy.
Adoption is better for society. There are plenty of kids who need parents, and too many people in the world already... but both are options you have.

Surrogacy is a legal minefield so I think best avoided . So you don’t have to be a heterosexual couple to adopt these days?

L1011

You haven't had to be for decades if ever; however there are very very limited numbers of children placed for adoption in Ireland and adopting from abroad is more complicated than ever due to (justified) checks brought in to try prevent Magdalene baby sale type setups.

WoolyJumper

Gael23 wrote: »

Not sure if I’ve the right title on this thread but here goes.
I’ve come to the conclusion I’m more turned on by a man than a woman and to date have only engaged in intimacy with a man.

But the thought of never being a dad bothers me a bit and I guess is making me disguse it a little.
Has anyone else ever felt like this or am I just being silly?

No you are not being silly at all. We were all raised with certain expectations of what our lives would be and for most of us that is marriage and family. Part of the coming out process and self acceptance is letting go of that dream/idea of that cookie cutter life, getting married to the opposite sex, having kids...having a "normal" family etc. That process can take some time.

Of course now a days you can get married and be a father. It might not be in the way you expected but I don't think it ever is...even if you are straight. Being openly gay no longer means you have to give up on the dream of marriage and kids. Yeah it will look different to what you imagined but I am sure you will be happier than if you were living a lie. Sounds like this is all new to you but I promise in time things become easier and will seem clearer. Coming out to yourself is a process and it is different for everyone.

Gael23

WoolyJumper wrote: »

No you are not being silly at all. We were all raised with certain expectations of what our lives would be and for most of us that is marriage and family. Part of the coming out process and self acceptance is letting go of that dream/idea of that cookie cutter life, getting married to the opposite sex, having kids...having a "normal" family etc. That process can take some time.

Of course now a days you can get married and be a father. It might not be in the way you expected but I don't think it ever is...even if you are straight. Being openly gay no longer means you have to give up on the dream of marriage and kids. Yeah it will look different to what you imagined but I am sure you will be happier than if you were living a lie. Sounds like this is all new to you but I promise in time things become easier and will seem clearer. Coming out to yourself is a process and it is different for everyone.

This helps alot. There’s a number of steps to coming out, not all which I’m ready to take yet. I guess there’s not much point in being with a female you have no feelings for just so you can reproduce.

mttdhg

I understand completely where you are coming from. When I was younger I thought all boys liked boys, but marrying a woman and having children was "just the done thing". I didnt think that being a gay man was a possibility, let alone an option.


Now I'm out a few years, so I have a generally positive outlook on stuff. I know that we can adopt now (as homosexual couples) but at times I double guess myself, and think would a child want to be raised by two men because of the unhappiness and possible persecution that it could cause for them outside of the home.

But at the same time I know I'd be a great dad, and the only way to fix a broken society is to resist it.

There are loads of options there, and things are definitely getting better. I even think that was added to some the human rights list in the last few years - the right to reproduce, which extended to all people.

Gael23

mttdhg wrote: »

I understand completely where you are coming from. When I was younger I thought all boys liked boys, but marrying a woman and having children was "just the done thing". I didnt think that being a gay man was a possibility, let alone an option.


Now I'm out a few years, so I have a generally positive outlook on stuff. I know that we can adopt now (as homosexual couples) but at times I double guess myself, and think would a child want to be raised by two men because of the unhappiness and possible persecution that it could cause for them outside of the home.

But at the same time I know I'd be a great dad, and the only way to fix a broken society is to resist it.

There are loads of options there, and things are definitely getting better. I even think that was added to some the human rights list in the last few years - the right to reproduce, which extended to all people.

There is that part, what impact would having 2 dads have in a child. Never considered that. Are you out a long time?

mttdhg

Gael23 wrote: »

There is that part, what impact would having 2 dads have in a child. Never considered that. Are you out a long time?

Im 20 now and out the last three years.

I guess its unnecessary worry, and I havent even felt any homophobic aggression or passive aggressiveness to warrant it. I think it would absolutely kill me to hear my future kids were bullied over their parentage though, because theres always remnants of distaste towards minorities lurking somewhere.

On the other hand, children are mocked over any insignificant difference anyway, such as height or hair colour. It only takes a bit of age to see the pointlessness of it. If people like me are always too afraid to adopt then it will never be cemented as a normal family type.

mttdhg

Gael23 wrote: »

There is that part, what impact would having 2 dads have in a child. Never considered that. Are you out a long time?

Im 20 now and out the last three years.

I guess its unnecessary worry, and I havent even felt any homophobic aggression or passive aggressiveness to warrant it. I think it would absolutely kill me to hear my future kids were bullied over their parentage though, because theres always remnants of distaste towards minorities lurking somewhere.

On the other hand, children are mocked over any insignificant difference anyway, such as height or hair colour. It only takes a bit of age to see the pointlessness of it. If people like me are always too afraid to adopt then it will never be cemented as a normal family type.

Gael23

mttdhg wrote: »

Im 20 now and out the last three years.

I guess its unnecessary worry, and I havent even felt any homophobic aggression or passive aggressiveness to warrant it. I think it would absolutely kill me to hear my future kids were bullied over their parentage though, because theres always remnants of distaste towards minorities lurking somewhere.

On the other hand, children are mocked over any insignificant difference anyway, such as height or hair colour. It only takes a bit of age to see the pointlessness of it. If people like me are always too afraid to adopt then it will never be cemented as a normal family type.

I’m 27 so a bit on the older side. I’ve got grandparents still alive and not sure I can ever tell them. At least not until I’m with someone serious

Rachiee

Slightly off topic but just to say there have been numerous longitudinal studies on outcomes of children from same sex parented families that have not found any negative outcomes.

OP a really big thing would be going out and meeting other gay people, you'll see that you and your fears aren't unusual and neither are your hopes and dreams.
Don't worry if drinking/clubbing isn't your thing theres lots of interesting groups etc.
Out and About, Dublin Gay Mens Chorus, Dublin Gay Theatre Festival, Acting Out, Outburst, Outhouse, Out 4 tennis, emerald warriors, Dublin International Gay Social Group.

Gay switchboard are good for a listening ear and can also point you to services, if you just rock up to a gay bar it could be hard to meet people so i would recommend joining some sort of club society or meetup group.

Gael23

Rachiee that helps a lot. Drinking and clubbing really isn’t my thing and I find it holds me back socially a bit.

More on topic for years I wasn’t sure and to an extent I’m still not 110%. But as I said earlier I feel more turned on by a man than a girl. Also I usually masturbate to male porn rather than nude girls.

Sonics2k

Gael23 wrote: »

There is that part, what impact would having 2 dads have in a child. Never considered that. Are you out a long time?

No impact at all. I was raised by a lesbian couple throughout the 80's and 90's. Not exactly a great time to be LGBT in Ireland. However, my actual childhood was fine. I was raised well, treated the same and had basically the same lives as my friends growing up.

Maz2016

OP, I’m slightly older at 35, but by even asking this question has helped others including me. A lot of things are very similar. Wish you all the best mate

EdgeCase

I wouldn't over think it. Having two dads certainly isn't an issue where you're going to be bullied anymore than for any other reason. It wasn't a problem for a lot of people years ago and society has changed dramatically in favour of being very accepting of gay couples so, there really is not likely to be much of an issue with it at all. It's very easy to focus on the bullies when 99% of society and all of officialdom will be extremely supportive.

Love who you love and you'll find the rest tends to fall into place.

Also on having kids : it's no guarantee in a straight relationship either.

Gael23

Agreed Edgecase.
My opinion is that once a child has a loving, caring home is all that matters. Only thing I think with save sex parents it might be wise to not engage in too much intimacy/touchy geeky stuff in front of kids

Maybe I’m wrong, just my thoughts.

Gael23

Maz2016 wrote: »

OP, I’m slightly older at 35, but by even asking this question has helped others including me. A lot of things are very similar. Wish you all the best mate

Are you out Maz?

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

There is that part, what impact would having 2 dads have in a child.

Probably a lot less impact than you think in the modern world. These things are becoming wonderfully more normalized and accepted.

More and more people are divesting themselves of the nonsense concept than children "need" a female and a male in the house to bring them up - or that it is somehow the "ideal" which is the word you hear a lot in that conversation.

Having three parents has so far had only good - no negative - impacts on my own children. 2 of them with 1 new one well on the way. Their lives are full and rich and diverse.

I also think grand parents _can_ be one of the best things in a kids life. My kids have 6 of those in effect. And the grand parents who are not yet biological grand parents (they will be soon enough) have felt like, acted like, and been like grandparents so far every bit as much as the ones who are. I would hope you find the same in your life, if and when kids come into it.

Bullying tends to be the concern most often brought up but my direct and vicarious anecdotal experience of that is so far zero. As a writer on boards.ie better than I points out quite often - bullies select the target first and the material second. If your kid is bullied it is likely to have nothing to do with them having 2 dads - even if the cowardly "people" that bully them focus on that while doing the bullying. I have worked hard on making my kids _not_ be easy targets for a bully.

As others have pointed out the best move for you is likely to be part of the gay community more and more. In ways that you personally like. You pointed out you are not much of a clubber. But there is gay _everything_ out there which is great. We were for awhile part of not one but 2 gay walking and hiking groups based out of Dublin for example. Who accepted me even though I am 100% straight. Gay bingo nights tend to be a thing. And so on.

Through this you should meet people who have parented in situations similar to your own and hopefully you can draw on their experience and their advice.

ZeroCool17

Gael23 wrote: »

Not sure if I’ve the right title on this thread but here goes.
I’ve come to the conclusion I’m more turned on by a man than a woman and to date have only engaged in intimacy with a man.

But the thought of never being a dad bothers me a bit and I guess is making me disguse it a little.
Has anyone else ever felt like this or am I just being silly?

I'm 35f and I only came out in June this year. My partner is older than me with 3 kids. She was separated when we started seeing each other and we both came out together. We had been seeing each other for quite a while before that. I understand what you are saying about being a Dad in the traditional way. It's something that has always bothered me about never being a mother in the traditional way.

Everyone has been really good to us so far and to be fair her kids have been fairly good with everything. You'd never know what is around the corner for you. You could meet the man of your dreams and fall in love and decide to have a child via surrogate or like me you could meet a man who already has kids and that might be your way of being a dad.

I don't claim to be my partners kids mother, far from it. But we are building a relationship and i would love to think in time that maybe they might think of me like that or maybe as close as they could to that. I hope the same for myself. That i would look at them as the daughters and son i never could have.

It's a wild world at the end of the day. Just in 1 moment your life could change and boom, partner and 3 kids. Follow your dream and follow your heart. It's not an easy journey but i wish you all the best.

Gael23

Deleted User wrote: »

As others have pointed out the best move for you is likely to be part of the gay community more and more. In ways that you personally like. You pointed out you are not much of a clubber. But there is gay _everything_ out there which is great. We were for awhile part of not one but 2 gay walking and hiking groups based out of Dublin for example. Who accepted me even though I am 100% straight. Gay bingo nights tend to be a thing. And so on.

Through this you should meet people who have parented in situations similar to your own and hopefully you can draw on their experience and their advice.

Any ideas of where I could begin to get into some of those activities? Are they online as someone mentioned earlier.

Maz2016

Gael23 wrote: »

Are you out Maz?

No Gael , I’m not. Well only to a very select few (you could count on one hand ). I haven’t been with a lot of people but have. Even with both men and women. Woman just don’t do anything for me sexually I’ve tried buy it just doesn’t happen. I’d love to be one of those guys that was 100% happy in my skin but I guess I’m a bit lost. I reckon if/when I find a partner it will all fall into place

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

Any ideas of where I could begin to get into some of those activities? Are they online as someone mentioned earlier.

Online and word of mouth mostly. Just search for the things you like doing and add words like "gay" to the search. Depends what you are into. Like http://www.gay-hiking.org/ for example which is "Dublin's Gay Hiking Club".

The more you do, the more you will meet. The more you meet the more word of mouth other ideas you will find.

Also find acting, speech and drama, dance classes, and sometimes foreign language classes tend to attract a lot of the community too. The George used to do a Bingo night - check if they still do.

Once you start opening those doors, you should find options opening up after it.

Gael23

Maz2016 wrote: »

OP, I’m slightly older at 35, but by even asking this question has helped others including me. A lot of things are very similar. Wish you all the best mate

It’s helped me a lot too, and raised a good lot more questions in my head, but they don’t need answering right now. I’m 27 but I’m not ready to come out yet. I’ve got grandparents still alive and I don’t want to hurt them.

Annasopra

Gael23 wrote: »

It’s helped me a lot too, and raised a good lot more questions in my head, but they don’t need answering right now. I’m 27 but I’m not ready to come out yet. I’ve got grandparents still alive and I don’t want to hurt them.

I wouldnt assume they would be hurt. Many older people were strong yes voters in 2015. At the end of the day surely they would want you to be happy and being able to freely be yourself means being happy!

Heebie

Gael23 wrote:

I’ve got grandparents still alive and I don’t want to hurt them.

Do you not see it as hurting them, by robbing them off the chance to know whom you really are?

I know I felt that way about my parents before I came out, even though I was terrified of coming out, because my dad had said "if I ever find out you're gay, I'll throw you out of the house" when I was 11.

Ten of Swords

Gael are you out to any member of your family? What about friends, do any of your inner circle know?

Gael23

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Gael are you out to any member of your family? What about friends, do any of your inner circle know?

One person in my family is suspicious I know because he saw a Grindr message notification on my phone. But I’m not openly no.

The One Doctor

I'm straight, male and a father and happened to see this thread. You'll be just as good a father if you're gay than if you're straight as long as you are committed to fatherhood. It's tough and made tougher by adoption. Surrogacy is not really a legal option in Ireland. Just remember, kids love their parents unconditionally and expect that love to be returned 110%. Being gay doesn't really enter into the equation. Being good at parenting as a father takes lots of intense time and effort, that's all.

Irishgay84

Hi Gael,

I’m 34 and only came out about 6 months ago. I got ill last year and it put everything into perspective for me and I decided when I was well again I had to make the most of life and not be so miserable. I out a deadline of before my 34th birthday. I came out to all my family, friends and work colleagues within a week or so and I can honestly say it’s been the best decision I’ve ever made.

I didn’t get one bad reaction, I had expected my family and some of my friends to disown me but none of them cared once I was happy.

I’m annoyed now I left it so long to come out but I can’t change that.

My advice is to stop hiding and come out so you can live the life you want to live without worrying. Ireland is a much different country than it was and most people are fairly open minded. I know everyone doesn’t have the coming out experience I had but I believe most of your family and friends will not care.

Best of luck!

SillyMangoX

A bit different here coming from the other side of the gender scale as a female, but I came out 4 years ago at the age of 21 and honestly it was the best thing I’ve ever done. I told all my close family and friends first and then put a status up on Facebook. Not the most conventional thing, I know, but it was much easier than having to explain to everyone individually.
The one person I was worried about was my grandmother, being the old Ireland religious type. She couldn’t have been more accepting and had met a couple of my partners since and never treated them any differently than my straight cousins bringing someone home.
It’s scary. It’s terrifying. But a lot of people come to this realisation in their 20s. You’re not alone in this. Someone very close to me and in his late 20s has recently come out to me as Bi. All I can say is try not to overthink everything. Ireland is a lot better a place than it was even 5 years ago for this kind of thing.
I wish you every luck in your journey.

Gael23

Irishgay84 wrote: »

Hi Gael,

I’m 34 and only came out about 6 months ago. I got ill last year and it put everything into perspective for me and I decided when I was well again I had to make the most of life and not be so miserable. I out a deadline of before my 34th birthday. I came out to all my family, friends and work colleagues within a week or so and I can honestly say it’s been the best decision I’ve ever made.

I didn’t get one bad reaction, I had expected my family and some of my friends to disown me but none of them cared once I was happy.

I’m annoyed now I left it so long to come out but I can’t change that.

My advice is to stop hiding and come out so you can live the life you want to live without worrying. Ireland is a much different country than it was and most people are fairly open minded. I know everyone doesn’t have the coming out experience I had but I believe most of your family and friends will not care.

Best of luck!

This really helps, partly because I see myself in a sort of similar place.

I guess going back to the start, when I was born I had so many things wrong with me every doctor that dealt with me thought it was impossible for a child with so many issues to survive . 27 years on I'm here writing this so for that reason i guess I'm quite close to my family. Had a setback in July when I had a test done and it found something which put me on medication for the rest of my life and I'm well on the road back form that but still lot 110% there.

Deep down I know your also right about family reactions, happiness is mostly what they care about. At the same time I know that some of my grandparents voted No in the referendum so thats on my mind too.

i think i'll probably wait until I've met someone to come out, I know thats not the usual way but I think its perhaps an easier way.

Annasopra

Gael23 wrote: »

This really helps, partly because I see myself in a sort of similar place.

I guess going back to the start, when I was born I had so many things wrong with me every doctor that dealt with me thought it was impossible for a child with so many issues to survive . 27 years on I'm here writing this so for that reason i guess I'm quite close to my family. Had a setback in July when I had a test done and it found something which put me on medication for the rest of my life and I'm well on the road back form that but still lot 110% there.

Deep down I know your also right about family reactions, happiness is mostly what they care about. At the same time I know that some of my grandparents voted No in the referendum so thats on my mind too.

i think i'll probably wait until I've met someone to come out, I know thats not the usual way but I think its perhaps an easier way.

What if you never meet someone. Honestly I think you are making things harder for yourself.

Gael23

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What if you never meet someone. Honestly I think you are making things harder for yourself.

Your probably right (again) Joey. I guess I'm just a little apprehensive about reactions really.

Irishgay84

I was so worried about reactions too Gael, I know for a fact my dad voted no in the marriage referendum and I was most worried about his reaction. To my surprise he has been good. I didn’t give people enough credit, the people I was most worried would react badly were actually all ok with it. There’ll never be a right time to come out but from experience if you want to be happy and live a life where you’re not walking on eggshells all the time or constantly worrying about what you say or how you act, you need to come out.

It sounds like you’ve had lots of health issues during your life and I’m sure your parents would only want you to be happy after what you’ve been through.

Gael23

Skatedude wrote: »

Adoption, artificial insemination with a surrogate mother etc. There are options available

Heebie wrote: »

Adoption or surrogacy.
Adoption is better for society. There are plenty of kids who need parents, and too many people in the world already... but both are options you have.

L1011 wrote: »

You haven't had to be for decades if ever; however there are very very limited numbers of children placed for adoption in Ireland and adopting from abroad is more complicated than ever due to (justified) checks brought in to try prevent Magdalene baby sale type setups.

Been doing some digging the past few days and it seems like adoption is a really tough road, even for straight couples, due to treaty issues as L1011 mentions.

Surrogacy for a male couple appears to present huge legal challenges due to the requirement for a mothers name to be included on an Irish birth certificate, am did that is done it gives the woman who gave birth to the child (theoretical) legal rights to the child.Aside from that the cost looks to be very prohibitive.

I know it’s one issue in a much bigger picture but unless I’m mistaken it appears legally and financially very difficult for a same sex male couple to have a child in Ireland.

JupiterKid

Life is far too short to spend it hiding away who and what you truly are, being frustrated, expending valuable energy living a lie. Be true to yourself and your loved ones, be yourself, be free!

Happy New Year!!

Heebie

Just had a thought...
Have you been to The Outhouse? (Someone else might have mentioned it.. forgive me if that's the case. It's a long thread)
They have programs and groups that might put you in touch with people who are or have been in very similar positions that you can chat with in real-time.

Gael23

Heebie wrote: »

Just had a thought...
Have you been to The Outhouse? (Someone else might have mentioned it.. forgive me if that's the case. It's a long thread)
They have programs and groups that might put you in touch with people who are or have been in very similar positions that you can chat with in real-time.

No I wasn't aware of them, will check it out.

Ten of Swords

Outhouse are running a program starting February 5th for men over 24. It is due to run for 6 weeks on Tuesday evenings

Annasopra

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Outhouse are running a program starting February 5th for men over 24. It is due to run for 6 weeks on Tuesday evenings

I would highly highly reccomend this course. Its a personal development course. I have done it myself and found it very very useful.


Personal Development Course
The Personal Development course run by Gay Men’s Health Service and Outhouse LGBT Community Centre is free of charge, runs for 6 weeks and is aimed at gay and bisexual men and men who have sex with men (MSM).

Personal development is all about making positive changes in your life and improving your health and wellbeing. The course can be both fun and challenging and helps you learn coping skills for everyday situations.

The overall aim of the course is to help you become more aware of yourself and improve your self-esteem and assertiveness.

Contact Outhouse on 018734999 or reception@outhouse.ie to book a place.

cgcsb

Gael23 wrote: »

So you don’t have to be a heterosexual couple to adopt these days?

Of course not.

cgcsb

Gael23 wrote: »

One person in my family is suspicious I know because he saw a Grindr message notification on my phone. But I’m not openly no.

So he knows then, he's not 'suspicious'.

cgcsb

Gael23 wrote: »

I know it’s one issue in a much bigger picture but unless I’m mistaken it appears legally and financially very difficult for a same sex male couple to have a child in Ireland.

Remaining closeted won't remedy that situation.

Gael23

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I would highly highly reccomend this course. Its a personal development course. I have done it myself and found it very very useful.


Personal Development Course
The Personal Development course run by Gay Men’s Health Service and Outhouse LGBT Community Centre is free of charge, runs for 6 weeks and is aimed at gay and bisexual men and men who have sex with men (MSM).

Personal development is all about making positive changes in your life and improving your health and wellbeing. The course can be both fun and challenging and helps you learn coping skills for everyday situations.

The overall aim of the course is to help you become more aware of yourself and improve your self-esteem and assertiveness.

Contact Outhouse on 018734999 or reception@outhouse.ie to book a place.

Where did you get this Joey? Sounds exactly what I need but I cant see much info on their website

Annasopra

Gael23 wrote: »

Where did you get this Joey? Sounds exactly what I need but I cant see much info on their website

What info are you looking for?