New buses around town

Dum_Dum

For the first time in ages (or is it ever?) Waterford City has public transport on a Sunday:


http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=3218&month=Nov

• new fleet of vehicles
• Leap card acceptance
• clockface timetable
• late running until 2330 on most routes

Almost Swiss-like. Some of the routes are still bizarre, and the Dunmore Road was excluded from the franchising, for reasons I'm not aware.

200motels

Dum_Dum wrote: »

For the first time in ages (or is it ever?) Waterford City has public transport on a Sunday:


http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=3218&month=Nov

• new fleet of vehicles
• Leap card acceptance
• clockface timetable
• late running until 2330 on most routes

Almost Swiss-like. Some of the routes are still bizarre, and the Dunmore Road was excluded from the franchising, for reasons I'm not aware.

The Dunmore road is run by Kavanagh’s, but why can’t we have competition between them? Also Kavanagh’s bus timetable is totally unreliable.

JohnC.

Noticed one of the new buses early one morning a couple of weeks ago. Presumably on a test run.

TheQuietFella

Great news for the city so! I could never understand why they were so infrequent. Now I believe they are every half hour all going well!

hardybuck

200motels wrote: »

The Dunmore road is run by Kavanagh’s, but why can’t we have competition between them? Also Kavanagh’s bus timetable is totally unreliable.

The route which Bus Eireann have was recently put out to tender, and Bus Eireann won the contract to operate the route.

The route which Kavanagh's operate, and the contract they entered into, probably has more time to run on it before it could be up for tender.

Why can't they have competition on the route - I doubt it would be viable if they had more than one operator on the route.

Flow Motion

Kavanagh's Ferrybank-Dunmore Rd route management is a joke. Totally unreliable outside peak times. Its not as if there is a lot of people living along the route!:rolleyes: Living out the Abbey Road its actually quicker to walk into town [20/25mins] than it is sitting in the bus shelter waiting or *hoping* a bus will arrive. I try not to use the car to drive into town on weekends @ this time of year due to the volume of ravenous shoppers descending on the town! I reckon if Bus Eireann got this route it would be transformed. Given the population living near or on the route if a reliable/frequent timetable was implemented then a lot more people would use it. It would also reduce the traffic jams on the Dunmore Rd/Ferrybank DC somewhat.

hardybuck

Flow Motion wrote: »

Kavanagh's Ferrybank-Dunmore Rd route management is a joke. Totally unreliable outside peak times. Its not as if there is a lot of people living along the route!:rolleyes: Living out the Abbey Road its actually quicker to walk into town [20/25mins] than it is sitting in the bus shelter waiting or *hoping* a bus will arrive. I try not to use the car to drive into town on weekends @ this time of year due to the volume of ravenous shoppers descending on the town! I reckon if Bus Eireann got this route it would be transformed. Given the population living near or on the route if a reliable/frequent timetable was implemented then a lot more people would use it. It would also reduce the traffic jams on the Dunmore Rd/Ferrybank DC somewhat.

That's the benefit of the tendering process. A company called Go-Ahead Ireland won a few routes in Dublin recently, straight away the frequency is better and the service is generally better. All new buses as well which don't make nearly as much noise or belch out as much fumes.

punisher5112

hardybuck wrote: »

That's the benefit of the tendering process. A company called Go-Ahead Ireland won a few routes in Dublin recently, straight away the frequency is better and the service is generally better. All new buses as well which don't make nearly as much noise or belch out as much fumes.

That's pure nonsense.

None of what you say has anything to do with the new company as it's the NTA that had the brain wave to increase all services handed over on the dates the ga got them as of course it makes them look even better.

There has been a frequency increase across a lot of routes including those still with db.

Be has to answer to the NTA also so what they want goes.

hardybuck

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's pure nonsense.

None of what you say has anything to do with the new company as it's the NTA that had the brain wave to increase all services handed over on the dates the ga got them as of course it makes them look even better.

There has been a frequency increase across a lot of routes including those still with db.

Be has to answer to the NTA also so what they want goes.

Sorry, are you telling me that it's nonsense that the route going to tender hasn't presented an opportunity to review the level of service that was required and getting an operator to go ahead and offer it?

The point of my post was that having an opportunity to go to the market, in a market where there is competition and companies willing to come in and do business, is good for the consumer.

punisher5112

hardybuck wrote: »

Sorry, are you telling me that it's nonsense that the route going to tender hasn't presented an opportunity to review the level of service that was required and getting an operator to go ahead and offer it?

The point of my post was that having an opportunity to go to the market, in a market where there is competition and companies willing to come in and do business, is good for the consumer.

It isn't competition though.....


Fares are the same actually only went up....

Ga does exactly the same as DB or be just they have nearly all new drivers to actually ever have driven a bus and it's showing a lot.

They haven't the experience or good enough training imo.

hardybuck

punisher5112 wrote: »

It isn't competition though.....


Fares are the same actually only went up....

Ga does exactly the same as DB or be just they have nearly all new drivers to actually ever have driven a bus and it's showing a lot.

They haven't the experience or good enough training imo.

But prices are not set by the operator. Prices are set by the NTA...

If GA does exactly the same as DB, why were GA selected as the preferred tenderer?

Harry Palmr

Saw one on the Quay, looks clean

What has happened to the existing fleet? Hived off to the school runs or down the country?

punisher5112

hardybuck wrote: »

But prices are not set by the operator. Prices are set by the NTA...

If GA does exactly the same as DB, why were GA selected as the preferred tenderer?

Prices are set by the nta, exactly the same way the increases were decided and also the buses used.

91wx763

Was in Waterford last week and the condition of the older vehicles was in some cases, grim. Handwritten signs in the windows. One vehicle was numbered "3C" which was renumbered to 603 in March 2013 !!! http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1363346300-Waterford-City-Network.pdf

The bin will be a possibilty.

Same glum drivers treating the "service" like an extension of their social life with no inspections or man management, no element of service regulation. Wasn't Breda Brennan councillor on about this on WLR recently ?

Bus stop parking totally unenforced by wardens/gardai, particularly at Dooleys on the quay and on Ballybricken. Not much point banging on about "disabled friendly" (known as "accessible" in every other part of the world) buses if you don't have the bus stop infrastructure or can't even get into whatever kerb is there !!!

I feel the retendering is being set up to fail and for the next tendering to be retrention with only peak services provided ("You had great services that nobody used") and an associated race to the bottom.

JohnC.

A couple drove past me on John Street earlier. They seem much quieter than the old ones.

punisher5112

JohnC. wrote: »

A couple drove past me on John Street earlier. They seem much quieter than the old ones.

Euro 6 engines.

Wanderer78

hardybuck wrote:

The point of my post was that having an opportunity to go to the market, in a market where there is competition and companies willing to come in and do business, is good for the consumer.

We are slowly finding out the reality of a free market or neoclassical system, and it isn't all good for society. It's becoming obvious that it overall increases worker insecurity, and that the real world economy dont necessarily work in equilibriums, but we continually tell ourselves that this is how the world works

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We are slowly finding out the reality of a free market or neoclassical system, and it isn't all good for society. It's becoming obvious that it overall increases worker insecurity, and that the real world economy dont necessarily work in equilibriums, but we continually tell ourselves that this is how the world works

I don't want to get too far off topic on this, but I think it would be fair to say that there must be a balance struck between services which the Government has a clear need to be involved in, and ones which there isn't such a clear need.

Air travel would be a good example. Market opened up, state airlines privatised, more travel options and lower air fares for the consumer.

dartboardio

They added a Sunday service, times are still the same, where I am in the city anyway, every 20 mins all day then every 30/40 after 6 until roughly half eleven.

Of course the prices went up, I was on the bus the other day and it cost me €2.40 now seems to go up ten cent every year, but I seen on a leaflet for the new bus cash fare adult €2.80? If they’re serious I would be laughing. The bones of €3 for a bus that has no exact turn up time and even the timetable says ‘times are approximate’

Gael23

I believe the council are working on issues regarding the Dubmore Rd service.
Was this ever operated by Bus Éireann? I’m here 22 years and it’s always been privately run

fricatus

I’m told there are announcements on the new buses, to tell you the name of the next stop. A very good development, but I did hear that Gracedieu was pronounced “Grass dew”. Hmmm...

dartboardio

fricatus wrote: »

I’m told there are announcements on the new buses, to tell you the name of the next stop. A very good development, but I did hear that Gracedieu was pronounced “Grass dew”. Hmmm...

Yes they have a screen displaying each stop and it’s called out in English and irish. A basic feature for a bus really id like to think but a privilege for us!

91wx763

Gael23 wrote: »

I believe the council are working on issues regarding the Dubmore Rd service.
Was this ever operated by Bus Éireann? I’m here 22 years and it’s always been privately run

Kenneally's (now owned by JJ Kavanagh/Rapid Express) started running from Ardkeen to Ferrybank in the 1960's if not earlier. https://goo.gl/images/wrehjk

91wx763

Snipped

dartboardio wrote: »

The bones of €3 for a bus that has no exact turn up time and even the timetable says ‘times are approximate’

My sentiments entirely.

Stephen15

hardybuck wrote: »

I don't want to get too far off topic on this, but I think it would be fair to say that there must be a balance struck between services which the Government has a clear need to be involved in, and ones which there isn't such a clear need.

Air travel would be a good example. Market opened up, state airlines privatised, more travel options and lower air fares for the consumer.

That's how it work in the UK outside of London in cities such as Manchester profitable routes are run by private companies who decide the routes which are profitable but the council steps in to provide socially nessecary services but tenders them out to private operators to run.

This dosen't really work however services are generally poor especially off peak. They're expensive and if you have a weekly or a monthly ticket to travel on one operator you can't travel on the other even the other operators bus comes first which means people have to wait for their own operators bus. If there's only one provider then you can go on any bus with a weekly or monthly pass.

Gael23

Stephen15 wrote: »

That's how it work in the UK outside of London in cities such as Manchester profitable routes are run by private companies who decide the routes which are profitable but the council steps in to provide socially nessecary services but tenders them out to private operators to run.

This dosen't really work however services are generally poor especially off peak. They're expensive and if you have a weekly or a monthly ticket to travel on one operator you can't travel on the other even the other operators bus comes first which means people have to wait for their own operators bus. If there's only one provider then you can go on any bus with a weekly or monthly pass.

The servic run by Kavanaghs is terrible but now hopefully action is being taken

questionmark?

dartboardio wrote: »

They added a Sunday service, times are still the same, where I am in the city anyway, every 20 mins all day then every 30/40 after 6 until roughly half eleven.

Of course the prices went up, I was on the bus the other day and it cost me €2.40 now seems to go up ten cent every year, but I seen on a leaflet for the new bus cash fare adult €2.80? If they’re serious I would be laughing. The bones of €3 for a bus that has no exact turn up time and even the timetable says ‘times are approximate’

It's €1:68 with a Leap Card!!!

ExoPolitic

Would be nice to see Tramore linked up directly to the hospital in the west of the city and to the IDA estate in the east of the city. Perhaps extend a couple of routes with the likes of a w4a and a w5a bus every couple of hours/peak times?

shockwave

Gael23 wrote: »

The servic run by Kavanaghs is terrible but now hopefully action is being taken

I dont know why they have been allowed to run it for so long, it about time it went back out to tender or let Bus Eireann take it over.

91wx763

shockwave wrote: »

I dont know why they have been allowed to run it for so long, it about time it went back out to tender or let Bus Eireann take it over.

What's peculiar is that I have cheap/free rail travel in Ireland and I choose Rapid Express every time for many years, Poleberry to Dublin airport door to door every time, never ever had an issue. €12 each way last time.

Did hear the driver chatting to the ticket seller at Parnell Street on my last journey talking about a driver who had gone on to the city service from the Dublin run, it seems the city service is a dumping ground/winding down to retirement route.

debok

Gael23 wrote: »

The servic run by Kavanaghs is terrible but now hopefully action is being taken

In fairness it hits horrible traffic at both ends of its route.hard to stay on time when hit tailbacks on every spin. Maybe bus eirean should start a route out the back road to ballygunner join it with their tour to hospital.

hardybuck

debok wrote: »

In fairness it hits horrible traffic at both ends of its route.hard to stay on time when hit tailbacks on every spin. Maybe bus eirean should start a route out the back road to ballygunner join it with their tour to hospital.

I'd say one of the issues with the Kavanagh's route is the lack of bus lanes on the Dunmore Road, Newtown Road, Lombard Street etc.

It must really mess up their service at busy periods to be stuck in all that traffic. Since the changes to the Quay there are tailbacks coming from Lombard Street as far back as Newtown School, even at non-peak times.

engiweirdo

ExoPolitic wrote: »

Would be nice to see Tramore linked up directly to the hospital in the west of the city and to the IDA estate in the east of the city. Perhaps extend a couple of routes with the likes of a w4a and a w5a bus every couple of hours/peak times?

Buses don't really need to be lengthy affairs covering an entire lap of the town. Connecting services are fine. The cost involved is not. Bloody ridiculous that to get to areas not covered by direct services you have to not only swap buses but then pay the same extortionate fare again to cover the rest of the journey. A lot of times a taxi is as cheap or not much more expensive.

hardybuck

engiweirdo wrote: »

Buses don't really need to be lengthy affairs covering an entire lap of the town. Connecting services are fine. The cost involved is not. Bloody ridiculous that to get to areas not covered by direct services you have to not only swap buses but then pay the same extortionate fare again to cover the rest of the journey. A lot of times a taxi is as cheap or not much more expensive.

Now that the Leap Card is in operation, you might see more integration of services and daily caps like what is currently in operation elsewhere.

Stephen15

Do the new buses in Waterford have Leap card validators on the right as you enter the bus like in Dublin which sppeded up things a lot. Also do these buses have exact fare only like in Dublin?

TheQuietFella

engiweirdo wrote: »

Buses don't really need to be lengthy affairs covering an entire lap of the town. Connecting services are fine. The cost involved is not. Bloody ridiculous that to get to areas not covered by direct services you have to not only swap buses but then pay the same extortionate fare again to cover the rest of the journey. A lot of times a taxi is as cheap or not much more expensive.

You can get a ticket that covers you for the day if I'm not mistaken.
That covers you on all services.

engiweirdo

TheQuietFella wrote: »

You can get a ticket that covers you for the day if I'm not mistaken.
That covers you on all services.

You can. At an increased price. A single journey point to point inside a specific area should be a single fare however. Take someone coming from Brownes Rd going toward the hospital. Total fare €4.80. Customers pay twice because a shoddily run entity only covers routes in a specific and lazy way with no concept of linking their own bloody services together.

Simple solution- Purchased ticket valid for any connecting service within 1 hour of purchase. Plenty of time to complete any journey in town and connect with another service. Doesn't involve fumbling deep into customers pockets however so wouldn't be considered.

TheQuietFella

engiweirdo wrote: »

You can. At an increased price. A single journey point to point inside a specific area should be a single fare however. Take someone coming from Brownes Rd going toward the hospital. Total fare €4.80. Customers pay twice because a shoddily run entity only covers routes in a specific and lazy way with no concept of linking their own bloody services together.

Simple solution- Purchased ticket valid for any connecting service within 1 hour of purchase. Plenty of time to complete any journey in town and connect with another service. Doesn't involve fumbling deep into customers pockets however so wouldn't be considered.

But you know that that would only be abused by some members of the public!
If you are using a bus regularly enough buy a leap card! Saves me a lot of hassle.

engiweirdo

TheQuietFella wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

You can. At an increased price. A single journey point to point inside a specific area should be a single fare however. Take someone coming from Brownes Rd going toward the hospital. Total fare €4.80. Customers pay twice because a shoddily run entity only covers routes in a specific and lazy way with no concept of linking their own bloody services together.

Simple solution- Purchased ticket valid for any connecting service within 1 hour of purchase. Plenty of time to complete any journey in town and connect with another service. Doesn't involve fumbling deep into customers pockets however so wouldn't be considered.

But you know that that would only be abused by some members of the public!
If you are using a bus regularly enough buy a leap card! Saves me a lot of hassle.

Most of those who would abuse it would have mostly figured out how to get themselves a bus pass at this stage. Leap requires infrastructure investment (auto kiosks) before it would save any hassle. As it is you first need to top up the card at a shop/ via your bank a/c before using the service. The only entity this is leass hassle for is Bus Eireann.

If public transport cannot provide functional means for any willing user to access at the very least; the main hospital, city centre shopping, college and main employment areas( industrial estates ) at a reasonable cost. Then what is the point of even running it in the first place. As the service stands currently it's run to keep the drivers in a job not to serve users in any meaningful way.

There are very few other states in Europe requiring its public transport offering to be profitable. Even in the UK (a shining example of what not to do that we seem intent to follow off any cliff) the routes run for profit are privatised not state run entities.

debok

hardybuck wrote: »

I'd say one of the issues with the Kavanagh's route is the lack of bus lanes on the Dunmore Road, Newtown Road, Lombard Street etc.

It must really mess up their service at busy periods to be stuck in all that traffic. Since the changes to the Quay there are tailbacks coming from Lombard Street as far back as Newtown School, even at non-peak times.

Yeh they hit traffic at Lombard on way in. Tailbacks on quay then, coming back from ferrybank they hit quay tailbacks again in opposite direction then from Newtown to hospital is always slow. This can happen every time they go in road. I think there doing well to be anyway on schedule. People still say it was better back in the day but there was very little traffic back when kennealys had it.

ExoPolitic

engiweirdo wrote: »

Buses don't really need to be lengthy affairs covering an entire lap of the town. Connecting services are fine. The cost involved is not. Bloody ridiculous that to get to areas not covered by direct services you have to not only swap buses but then pay the same extortionate fare again to cover the rest of the journey. A lot of times a taxi is as cheap or not much more expensive.

connecting services are fine as long as the time to do it is not too great, but it takes almost two hours to travel from tramore to the hospital, which is essentially a 15 minute drive...

ExoPolitic

TheQuietFella wrote: »

You can get a ticket that covers you for the day if I'm not mistaken.
That covers you on all services.

But it doesn't cover out to tramore, so no good for those connecting from tramore.

beazee

Did the WIT got the University status already?
Or is it that Bus Eireann is playing a long ball?

Recently noticed W5 line bus with "University / hOllscoile" as a destination.

Deisegodeo

beazee wrote: »

Did the WIT got the University status already?
Or is it that Bus Eireann is playing a long ball?

Recently noticed W5 line bus with "University / hOllscoile" as a destination.

Think the word 'hospital' follows it...

beazee

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Think the word 'hospital' follows it...

That would make sense [looking at the route: Waterford Hospital - Oakwood].
Will need to pay closer attention next time whether is there ANY "hospital to follow.

But then - why would I see this line passing through the Industrial Estate on the Cork Road?

friendlyfun

Everytime I take the bus its like its gone up in price. That been said, I'm probably the only person on my route that actually has to pay money to get on!

alta stare

friendlyfun wrote: »

Everytime I take the bus its like its gone up in price. That been said, I'm probably the only person on my route that actually has to pay money to get on!

The last time i took the bus it was €1.20 to use it. Is it something like €2.20 now????

TheQuietFella

alta stare wrote: »

The last time i took the bus it was €1.20 to use it. Is it something like €2.20 now????

And if you go cashless as in a Leap Card you'll pay less then half the fare!

beazee

TheQuietFella wrote: »

And if you go cashless as in a Leap Card you'll pay less then half the fare!

^this!

engiweirdo

TheQuietFella wrote: »

alta stare wrote: »

The last time i took the bus it was €1.20 to use it. Is it something like €2.20 now????

And if you go cashless as in a Leap Card you'll pay less then half the fare!

Not quite. €2.40 cash ,€1.68 Leap. Still overpriced, maybe the price premium is for the exceptional customer service and "unique" charm of the drivers.

Gael23

It was 30p when I first moved here in 1996.