"Christchurch" as a region in Dublin and not just a Cathedral?

hatrickpatrick

Story in the news tonight about a "Manhunt taking place in the Christchurch area of Dublin" after an attack on Winetavern Street, which is the street separating the two pieces of Christ Church Cathedral (the main church and the Dublinia exhibition, with the stone tunnel joining the pieces about three storeys above the street)

I'm just wondering, is Christchurch an actual name for a region or district within the city, or is this an incorrect usage? And if it is, where exactly are its boundaries? I've always loosely described Dame Street as the City Centre, and from the Cathedral onwards as "The Liberties", so the Cathedral straddles the border between the city centre and The Liberties, and could be said to reside in either one. But if Christchurch is also the name of a district, presumably anchored by the Cathedral itself, then which streets define its boundaries? And how far does it stretch into the area which I would previously have assumed to be part of the Liberties?

For instance, would St Augustine St, Oliver Bond St, Bridgefoot St etc be considered part of the Liberties, or are they just a little too far North for that? Does Thomas St count as Liberties? Where are the boundaries of that district, assuming Christchurch is in fact its own separate locality which encompasses some of these areas I'd formerly have ascribed to The Liberties?

rosiem

That’s what you took to be the important question from a news report on a rape !!!

lawred2

rosiem wrote: »

That’s what you took to be the important question from a news report on a rape !!!

That's what I said to myself

hatrickpatrick

rosiem wrote: »

That’s what you took to be the important question from a news report on a rape !!!

I've actually been wondering this for a while, but had never seen it used by an actual newspaper before, merely colloquially and with different meanings by different folks.

If I wanted to start a thread on the horrific story itself, I'd have started it in AH or perhaps Politics.

Victor

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

"Christchurch" as a region

Did they use the word "region"?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Christchurch area

I don't think that is an unreasonable expression. The Liberties themselves are somewhat amorphous.

Thins with related names:
Church: Christ Church Cathedral
Street: Christchurch Place
Hotel: Jury's Inn Christchurch
Offices: Christchurch Square
Apartments: Christchurch Hall
Bar: Oscars Christchurch
Car park: Christ Church Car Park
dublinbikes station: Christchurch Place
Bus stop: Christ Church Cathedral
ESB Networks transformer: Christchurch Place

Surely one can say "O'Connell Street area" or "St. Stephen's Green area" to mean those streets and the immediately adjacent streets, without a formal definition?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

with the stone tunnel

Bridge?

Dodge

One of my favourite little things about Dublin is that some areas have (very) loosely defined borders and that drives some people insane

I much prefer that to having strict ‘regions’ or sectors

Peregrinus

"The Christchurch area" doesn't suggest to me a district with defined boundaries; it just means the general vicinity of Christchurch Cathedral. I think any notable landmark can be used to identify an area in this way, and areas are not exclusive. The Fourt Courts area, for example would still be part of the north inner city; the Pearse Street area would overlap with the city centre.

Gaspode

The topic at hand is in the OP & relates to how an area is named, nothing else

Gavin "shels"

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For instance, would St Augustine St, Oliver Bond St, Bridgefoot St etc be considered part of the Liberties, or are they just a little too far North for that? Does Thomas St count as Liberties? Where are the boundaries of that district, assuming Christchurch is in fact its own separate locality which encompasses some of these areas I'd formerly have ascribed to The Liberties?

The Liberties would be down to the Liffey afaik - so Oliver Bond, Bridgefoot, etc... would be. No doubt about Thomas St. The boundary would be loosely up to the Whiteswan Business Centre on Donore Ave where Donore "Castle" stood.

SteM

15 years ago we used to live in Bertram Court which is on the corner of Cornmarket and Lamb Alley an our neighbours used to call the area Christchurch back then.

OldGoat

Fishamble Street is the Barony of St. Johns within the Ward of Wood Quay.

The problem with Dublin is that we use postal boundaries, parish boundaries, council ward boundaries, historical boundaries and frequently they don't match each other.

markpb

Dodge wrote: »

One of my favourite little things about Dublin is that some areas have (very) loosely defined borders and that drives some people insane

I much prefer that to having strict ‘regions’ or sectors

Dublin is not alone in having loosely defined areas. I’d imagine most cities do the same. New things become landmarks (not that I’m suggesting Christchurch is a new thing ), parts of an existing area become less popular so other parts gradually become known as something else, developers anoint their new creation with a new name, etc.

cgcsb

I would use it common parlance, on the south side I would say from West to East you have Kilmainham, Heuston, Liberties, Christchurch, Templebar, A sort of un-named area east of O'Connell Bridge and then the Docklands.
Where the boundaries are is not officially defined except in the case of Templebar and Docklands where streetsigns have the district named on them.

Templebar is strictly defined as the area bound by the Liffey, Westmoreland st, Dame st and the Civic offices. It'd be nice if the city council added definition to other areas in the same way.

Dodge

markpb wrote: »

Dublin is not alone in having loosely defined areas. I’d imagine most cities do the same. New things become landmarks (not that I’m suggesting Christchurch is a new thing ), parts of an existing area become less popular so other parts gradually become known as something else, developers anoint their new creation with a new name, etc.

Yeah. All true. I guess I just mean that I enjoy people looking for definitive boundaries where none exist

Marcusm

Gavin shels wrote: »

The Liberties would be down to the Liffey afaik - so Oliver Bond, Bridgefoot, etc... would be. No doubt about Thomas St. The boundary would be loosely up to the Whiteswan Business Centre on Donore Ave where Donore "Castle" stood.

Liberties were areas generally adjacent to cities but not under the jurisdiction of the city - generally outside the walls. They were areas where the city government (of whatever form) didn’t hold sway. As a result, generally lots of taverns, cockfighting pits and houses of ill-repute, theatres and brothels alike.

I’d be surprised if the aliberties got that close to the river at Christchurch.

Marcusm

Dodge wrote: »

Yeah. All true. I guess I just mean that I enjoy people looking for definitive boundaries where none exist

The Liberties are the Liberty of St Sepulchre and the Liberty of Thomas Court/Donore. They will have been defined in the past - maybe the archives or Marsh’s Library could help.

atilladehun

Apparently there's a mark just south of Christchurch on Nicholas st that marks the old city walls. The liberties would have been outside this, Christchurch inside it.

Gavin "shels"

atilladehun wrote: »

Apparently there's a mark just south of Christchurch on Nicholas st that marks the old city walls. The liberties would have been outside this, Christchurch inside it.

You mean at Lamb Alley? Opposite the Spar?

Esel

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

You mean at Lamb Alley? Opposite the Spar?

There is a section of the old city wall at Cornmarket/Lamb Alley, between Christchurch and Francis Street.

BeerNut

atilladehun wrote: »

Apparently there's a mark just south of Christchurch on Nicholas st that marks the old city walls. The liberties would have been outside this, Christchurch inside it.

But Christchurch was also a liberty of its own.

Collie D

Marcusm wrote: »

Liberties were areas generally adjacent to cities but not under the jurisdiction of the city - generally outside the walls. They were areas where the city government (of whatever form) didn’t hold sway. As a result, generally lots of taverns, cockfighting pits and houses of ill-repute, theatres and brothels alike.

I’d be surprised if the aliberties got that close to the river at Christchurch.

I like how theatres somehow got lumped in with cockfighting and brothels.

cgcsb

Collie D wrote: »

I like how theatres somehow got lumped in with cockfighting and brothels.

Depending on the nature of the performance this could often be the case. Still to this day the performing arts are not totally free to play to an audience of consenting adults. The Turks head was raided by the gardai a few months ago while two porn stars were going at it on the stage. Turns out the Gardaí didn't actually have a legal mechanism to shut down the venue so they made a few drugs busts on people in the jax. Make no mistake the bishops are still partially in control.