Learn our language or we cut your welfare

Cee-Jay-Cee

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/austria-uses-language-barrier-to-cut-benefits-37592578.html

Austria are hoping to have legislation passed which will allow them to cut benefits/welfare for immigrants who fail to learn the language.

It actually makes sense, if you don't speak the local language then chances of getting employment are drastically reduced so why should you be allowed to continue drawing dole when you are effectively un-employable due to your inability or refusal to learn the language.

If the EU allow Austria to do this I can see other countries following suit.

Bigbagofcans

I don't see anything wrong with that. It'll be an incentive some immigrants need to better themselves and gain employment.

With the likes of great free apps such as Duolingo it makes learning a language so much easier.

Henry Ford III

Sounds pretty reasonable to me too.

Captain Obvious

while local authorities will also be compelled to tell the government how many welfare recipients are from ethnic minorities

Austria getting a bit nostalgic for the middle of last century?

If the classes are provided by the government I think it's a good idea. I can see how we could bring it in in Ireland too. Single parents allowance? Parenting class one a week. Whole family on the social? Budgeting class once a fortnight. Asylum applicant? English class twice a week.

PlaneSpeeking

I was waiting for the first post with a thinly veiled Godwin.

hynesie08

The welfare bill would drop 98% if Intreo insisted people speak Irish.....

Junkyard Tom

I guess it's no harm that the newcomers learn some of the Aboriginal languages, a bit of tribal body-painting, and perhaps a little cave/rock art.

mad muffin

The EU definitely needs massive reforms, to turn this mass immigration into something more than a economical and social burden.

Language
Employment skills
Deportation of any non citizen for crimes.

Apiarist

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Sounds pretty reasonable to me too.

Agreed! Let's send all of those welfare scroungers to a Gaeltacht labour camp until they learn Irish, or back to England they go :P

Grayson

Sounds fine so long at they set upper and lower age limits and a reasonable target to achieve. It's a bit nuts to expect someone to pick up a language so fluently they technically have a level that's higher than a native school leaver.
They'd also have to be able to take into account verbal fluency versus written as there is stuff like dyslexia. And I think they should provide classes.

As far as i know there's stuff like english language proficiency levels. So expecting them to gain a particular proficiency in a reasonable time sound great.

Take Ireland for example. If we told asylum seekers in direct provision to get proficient and didn't provide classes it'd be sh1t since it would be incredibly hard for people to learn. they'd never have access to the money needed to join a paid for class.

One eyed Jack

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/austria-uses-language-barrier-to-cut-benefits-37592578.html

Austria are hoping to have legislation passed which will allow them to cut benefits/welfare for immigrants who fail to learn the language.

It actually makes sense, if you don't speak the local language then chances of getting employment are drastically reduced so why should you be allowed to continue drawing dole when you are effectively un-employable due to your inability or refusal to learn the language.

If the EU allow Austria to do this I can see other countries following suit.

The proposals will likely, and should be, shot down on the basis of discrimination against persons on the basis of their ethnicity. That’s not to mention that in Austria there are a number of languages spoken, and it’s not necessary to learn all of them, or even any of them, to gain employment.

Their proposals would be akin to suggesting that everyone receiving social welfare payments here, unless they were able to pass a test of their competency in Irish, should have their welfare payments cut. It only makes sense if your intent is to unfairly discriminate against immigrants coming into the country. Otherwise it’s an idea I’d expect an idiot to dream up in the hope of gaining international attention, knowing full well the ECJ won’t even entertain it, but it goes down well with a small minority of your voting public. It’s like something that Peter Casey would dream up.

Apiarist

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I guess it's no harm that the newcomers learn some of the Aboriginal languages, a bit of tribal body-painting, and perhaps a little cave/rock art.

Indeed. Or in case of Austria, let them learn the original Neanderthal.

mad muffin

Why are people so afraid of making sure immigrants fully integrate into society?

The way I see it the current system isn’t doing any favours to anyone.

KungPao

"G'day mate"


"Throw another shrimp on the barbie"


"Chazzwazzas"


It's not that hard to learn.

suicide_circus

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The proposals will likely, and should be, shot down on the basis of discrimination against persons on the basis of their ethnicity.

which ethnicities are incapable of trying to learn german?

Grayson

marcbrophy

Does this mean, that as an Irish born citizen, that I'll be forced to learn Irish? :pac:

Cee-Jay-Cee

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The proposals will likely, and should be, shot down on the basis of discrimination against persons on the basis of their ethnicity. That’s not to mention that in Austria there are a number of languages spoken, and it’s not necessary to learn all of them, or even any of them, to gain employment.

Their proposals would be akin to suggesting that everyone receiving social welfare payments here, unless they were able to pass a test of their competency in Irish, should have their welfare payments cut. It only makes sense if your intent is to unfairly discriminate against immigrants coming into the country. Otherwise it’s an idea I’d expect an idiot to dream up in the hope of gaining international attention, knowing full well the ECJ won’t even entertain it, but it goes down well with a small minority of your voting public. It’s like something that Peter Casey would dream up.

In case you weren't aware English is the dominant language spoken in this country so why would anyone be expected to learn Irish? This is not some sort of crusade to promote languages, if the language of the area in which you chose to reside is English then you need to learn English in order to gain employment or if its Irish then learn Irish. The idea is to allow people to get off welfare and gain employment.

Grayson

marcbrophy wrote: »

Does this mean, that as an Irish born citizen, that I'll be forced to learn Irish? :pac:

They tried to force me to learn it for 14 years. It didn't stick.

Gimme A Pound

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Austria getting a bit nostalgic for the middle of last century?

If the classes are provided by the government I think it's a good idea. I can see how we could bring it in in Ireland too. Single parents allowance? Parenting class one a week. Whole family on the social? Budgeting class once a fortnight. Asylum applicant? English class twice a week.

It's only you who's mentioning those ideas (tongue in cheek or otherwise).

kneemos

suicide_circus wrote: »

which ethnicities are incapable of trying to learn german?

African I'd imagine.
Far right party.

Most Europeans would pick it up easily enough if they don't already speak it.

suicide_circus

kneemos wrote: »

African I'd imagine.
Far right party.

Most Europeans would pick it up easily enough if they don't already speak it.

Africans are incapable of trying to learn german?

cloudy90210

Imagine the amount of economic migrants that would be stopped coming into UK and Ireland if this happened??

No more Albanians, Macedonians, Africans etc.

I'd be like Cardi B on crack

ShaunC

Are we sure its Austria and not Australia? I didn't even realise Austria had their own language?

One eyed Jack

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

In case you weren't aware English is the dominant language spoken in this country so why would anyone be expected to learn Irish? This is not some sort of crusade to promote languages, if the language of the area in which you chose to reside is English then you need to learn English in order to gain employment or if its Irish then learn Irish. The idea is to allow people to get off welfare and gain employment.

No you do not. Having worked for large multinational companies where a number of languages are spoken, I could go a whole day sometimes without speaking a word of English. I made the effort to learn other languages though as opposed to the small number of ignorant fcukers who would stand up in a town hall meeting and demand that the Eastern European staff should speak English. The same ignorant fcukers wouldn’t work to warm themselves, but they wanted to dictate the terms of employment for everyone else? :pac:

kneemos

suicide_circus wrote: »

Africans are incapable of trying to learn german?

Bit alien to non Europeans. Try learning Arabic.

Always takes a couple of generations at least for immigrants to fully blend in.

cruizer101

It really isn't that mad an idea. Even here you can get your payment reduced if you refuse to engage in courses to up your skills and increase your employ-ability. One of the skills required for majority of jobs is speaking the common language of that country. It really should be a priority for anyone looking for work, if you refuse to engage in courses why shouldn't your payment be docked.

Captain Obvious

Laurel Tangy Goalie wrote: »

It's only you who's mentioning those ideas (tongue in cheek or otherwise).

What's wrong with them?

cruizer101

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No you do not.

Fair enough if you can find work without english based on your other skills but if you can't find work and you don't try learn the common language which would open up far more jobs to you than fair enough reduce payments.

jester77

Sounds good in theory. To quote cool hand Luke, "some people you just can't reach", and they will turn to crime to support themselves. Need to be careful what you wish for.

Ray Palmer

A guy I went to school with came from Vietnam as a refugee. He opened a "Chinese" take away. He employs about 15 people. He has barely any English language. After paying all his taxes he should be entitled to what he has contributed. Anybody thinking he is not entitled to the fund he contributed to is an idiot.

suicide_circus

kneemos wrote: »

Bit alien to non Europeans. Try learning Arabic.

Always takes a couple of generations at least for immigrants to fully blend in.

I think an attempt to learn the language is the very least a country can expect of its immigrants in return for free cash.

One eyed Jack

cruizer101 wrote: »

It really isn't that mad an idea. Even here you can get your payment reduced if you refuse to engage in courses to up your skills and increase your employ-ability. One of the skills required for majority of jobs is speaking the common language of that country. It really should be a priority for anyone looking for work, if you refuse to engage in courses why shouldn't your payment be docked.

Where are you getting that idea from? We have immigrants coming into this country who haven’t a word of English and are able to gain employment. The intent of these proposals is purely to discriminate against a minority of migrants who are entering the country legally, and they are as entitled to claim social welfare payments as long as they meet the same criteria as anyone else who qualifies for social welfare payments. Speaking other people’s native language is not one of those requirements.

riffmongous

It's just an attempt to distract the plebs while the current right wing gov dismantles as much of the social state as possible before the working class cop on

suicide_circus

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Speaking other people’s native language is not one of those requirements.

but they want to make it a requirement.

One eyed Jack

cruizer101 wrote: »

Fair enough if you can find work without english based on your other skills but if you can't find work and you don't try learn the common language which would open up far more jobs to you than fair enough reduce payments.

Being able to speak the language though is not one of the assessment criteria when qualifying for social welfare payments. An inability to speak the language places immigrants at an unfair disadvantage to people already claiming welfare who can speak the language.

One eyed Jack

suicide_circus wrote: »

but they want to make it a requirement.

They don’t really, they want attention, because they’re already aware that the ECJ will point out the discriminatory intent and effect of the proposals.

cruizer101

Ray Palmer wrote: »

A guy I went to school with came from Vietnam as a refugee. He opened a "Chinese" take away. He employs about 15 people. He has barely any English language. After paying all his taxes he should be entitled to what he has contributed. Anybody thinking he is not entitled to the fund he contributed to is an idiot.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Where are you getting that idea from? We have immigrants coming into this country who haven’t a word of English and are able to gain employment.

If people can gain employment for themselves without english fair play to them and I would have no issue with them getting JSB payments if they lost their job.

However if someone is on JSA long term they should be doing courses to improve their employability. If they don't engage in these courses (be that english, computer skills, welding etc.) their payment should be reduced.
And a priority should be a basic level of the common language, which would firstly open up a far wider range of job opportunities and secondly give them better access to a wider range of courses to increase their skills.

I'm not talking about immigrants who can't speak english getting a reduced payment. But anyone recieving JSA should be increasing their chances of gaining employment through education, including learning the common language, and if they aren't I don't have a problem with reduced payments.

suicide_circus

but is it reasonable for a country to protect its unique cultural identity by placing restrictions and special requirements on non national residents?

foreigners are not entitled to welfare in Japan since 2014.

John Sacrimoni

kneemos wrote: »

Bit alien to non Europeans. Try learning Arabic.

Always takes a couple of generations at least for immigrants to fully blend in.

So what happens in the mean time?

Eggs For Dinner

Ray Palmer wrote: »

A guy I went to school with came from Vietnam as a refugee. He opened a "Chinese" take away. He employs about 15 people. QUOTE]

Your example is of a self sufficient person, the point being discussed is those in need of assistance

topper75

kneemos wrote: »

Bit alien to non Europeans. Try learning Arabic.

Always takes a couple of generations at least for immigrants to fully blend in.

Will we ever see a non-European who takes to the European country's language OK, but then gets exasperated trying to work out how the welfare system operates because they don't have that in their place of origin?

Strange what is alien and what is not alien.

This latest Austrian demand is more than reasonable.

Kivaro

One eyed Jack wrote: »

..... It’s like something that Peter Casey would dream up.

Ah yeah, Peter was mean to the Travelers (who seem to be all over the news recently with their ethnicity), so now he's the target for disdain from the Sinn Fein/liberal open border types.

He received around 24% of the vote.
If the vote was held today, he would get a much larger percentage of the vote.

kneemos

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

So what happens in the mean time?

They generally live and work within their own communities.

Grayson

topper75 wrote: »

Will we ever see a non-European who takes to the European country's language OK, but then gets exasperated trying to work out how the welfare system operates because they don't have that in their place of origin?

Strange what is alien and what is not alien.

This latest Austrian demand is more than reasonable.

Depending on how it's implemented. If they're given access to lessons and are only required to get an obtainable level of proficiency that's ok.

You've also got to take into account people who might not be able to travel to classes because of distance, children etc.

It'd be far too easy to make something which should be about helping people integrate into something that's used to persecute foreigners.

John Sacrimoni

I dont think its too much to ask that people wanting to move here learn a basic level of English, before they come here and then continue to learn when they get here.

I come into contact with a lot of truck/van drivers in my line of work, a high number of the foreign drivers cant string a sentence together in English, and then they get snotty with you when you cant understand them, like its our fault we cant understand them.

It be like me moving to Romania and expecting to get a job and i cant speak a word of Romanian.

Employers have a lot to answer for here too.

Junkyard Tom

victor8600 wrote: »

Indeed. Or in case of Austria, let them learn the original Neanderthal.

Grayson wrote: »

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-36738f514fc1a2d8bf0134c57cac24e4-c

Grayson

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

I dont think its too much to ask that people wanting to move here learn a basic level of English, before they come here and then continue to learn when they get here.

I come into contact with a lot of truck/van drivers in my line of work, a high number of the foreign drivers cant string a sentence together in English, and then they get snotty with you when you cant understand them, like its our fault we cant understand them.

It be like me moving to Romania and expecting to get a job and i cant speak a word of Romanian.

Employers have a lot to answer for here too.

There's a lot of tech jobs around the world where you don't need to have the local language.

And I have friends who travel the world as ESL teachers. They don't know the local languages, they just go there to teach english.

John Sacrimoni

Grayson wrote: »

There's a lot of tech jobs around the world where you don't need to have the local language.

And I have friends who travel the world as ESL teachers. They don't know the local languages, they just go there to teach english.

Thats all fine, they are travelling knowing they dont neccesarily need to know the local language. id imagine their sole for purpose of travelling to the country was because there was an offer of employment, or a good chance of employment.

Most people coming to Ireland are coming for low skilled jobs.They should have a basic understanding of the local language.

topper75

Grayson wrote: »

Depending on how it's implemented. If they're given access to lessons and are only required to get an obtainable level of proficiency that's ok.

You've also got to take into account people who might not be able to travel to classes because of distance, children etc.

It'd be far too easy to make something which should be about helping people integrate into something that's used to persecute foreigners.

Yeah the govt there must be accommodating in that respect.

But being cynical I ask if there are ever issues collecting dole money because of distance children etc.

RobbingBandit

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

So what happens in the mean time?

They send them to some sort of place so they can all learn together I was gonna call it a camp of some sort where people think really hard....