How many days must you be in a property a year for it to be your PPR

dev_ire

Hi,

How many days must you be in a property a year for it to be your PPR?

I mean if you live and work in another country can you claim and rent out your PPR (minus one bedroom for myself) and if so how often would I need to be home?

Thanks.

seamus

It depends on what the full context of the question is That is, why are you asking?

For CGT purposes, if you are working abroad then your Irish property can be your PPR provided you lived there before you left and live there when you come back (or intend to).

If it's for rental law purposes (i.e. when is the renter a legal tenant and not a lodger), then it's probably simpler, but you would need to give them a rental agreement explicitly calling out their status as a licensee who is not entitled to full and sole enjoyment of the property.

If you're thinking about claiming rent-a-room relief, then that's a stickier situation.

Pkiernan

dev_ire wrote: »

Hi,

How many days must you be in a property a year for it to be your PPR?

I mean if you live and work in another country can you claim and rent out your PPR (minus one bedroom for myself) and if so how often would I need to be home?

Thanks.

It's not your PPR if you live in another country.

James Bond Junior

Interested to know too. Would 40 days suffice?

Subutai

seamus wrote: »

It depends on what the full context of the question is That is, why are you asking?

For CGT purposes, if you are working abroad then your Irish property can be your PPR provided you lived there before you left and live there when you come back (or intend to).

If it's for rental law purposes (i.e. when is the renter a legal tenant and not a lodger), then it's probably simpler, but you would need to give them a rental agreement explicitly calling out their status as a licensee who is not entitled to full and sole enjoyment of the property.

If you're thinking about claiming rent-a-room relief, then that's a stickier situation.

It's not sufficient to simply have the agreement say that they're not entitled to full and sole enjoyment of the property. What matters in the end is the actual character of the arrangement, not what's on the contract.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

It's not your PPR if you live in another country.

Its your PPR in Ireland which is what matters. It is likely wherever he stays abroad is nothing more than a hotel anyway or maybe even hotels if work involves travel so his home here could easily be considered his world wide PPR quite easily also.

Also it doesn’t have to be your PPR to have a license or to claim rent a room so the debate is a bit pointless.

If the op keeps all is stuff there, all mail and correspondence goes there and he is back for a few days every month there is no way a tenancy could be created anyway as it’s his home in Ireland. The rent a room relief requires that it’s your sole or main residence so it could be argued that it is if the situation is structured right.

James Bond Junior

But if you keep all correspondance to the house but only return for a straight amount of time eg 8 weeks, would this count?

davindub

Royal Skinny Swimmer wrote: »

Pkiernan wrote: »

It's not your PPR if you live in another country.

Its your PPR in Ireland which is what matters. It is likely wherever he stays abroad is nothing more than a hotel anyway or maybe even hotels if work involves travel so his home here could easily be considered his world wide PPR quite easily also.

Also it doesn’t have to be your PPR to have a license or to claim rent a room so the debate is a bit pointless.

If the op keeps all is stuff there, all mail and correspondence goes there and he is back for a few days every month there is no way a tenancy could be created anyway as it’s his home in Ireland. The rent a room relief requires that it’s your sole or main residence so it could be argued that it is if the situation is structured right.

No, to maintain the PPR relief from CGT there are criteria to be met, the OP should consult a tax advisor to evaluate this.

Rent a room relief will not apply while you are not in the country, unless you are back frequently enough to justify it.

Again unless the OP lives there, a tenancy could arise. There is absolutely no proof that a few days a month will prevent a tenancy from arising, it is guesswork.

Pkiernan

Royal Skinny Swimmer wrote: »

Its your PPR in Ireland which is what matters. It is likely wherever he stays abroad is nothing more than a hotel anyway or maybe even hotels if work involves travel so his home here could easily be considered his world wide PPR quite easily also.

Also it doesn’t have to be your PPR to have a license or to claim rent a room so the debate is a bit pointless.

If the op keeps all is stuff there, all mail and correspondence goes there and he is back for a few days every month there is no way a tenancy could be created anyway as it’s his home in Ireland. The rent a room relief requires that it’s your sole or main residence so it could be argued that it is if the situation is structured right.

You should look in to the rules that Revenue have about domiciled.

It is not the OP's PPR as he doesn't reside there, nor is he domiciled in Ireland (going by the info in his post).
Revenue don't require a tenancy to want their tax. They only care about the income.

Pkiernan

Qualifying requirements here:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/rent-a-room-relief/what-type-of-residence-qualifies.aspx

No way they are met by OP.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Qualifying requirements here:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/rent-a-room-relief/what-type-of-residence-qualifies.aspx

No way they are met by OP.

If the op only stayed in different hotels or b&bs etc then he would qualify as it would be his sole residence as an example so it’s not as clear cut as you would make it out.

I know of at least one person doing rent a room in a similar situation to the op, working abroad and coming back now and again to visit home and staying in the house then.

dev_ire

Thanks everyone.

I would have a PPR elsewhere in the world, not just hotels and would only be home a few days each month so probably best to rent the house out fully and deal with all the tax and rental issues (potential issues, will put it up to an agency).

It would be the only address in Ireland somewhere would look to find me though. So if I were to fully rent it out I would not have any place to stay in Ireland except as a guest/renting myself. I would be renting abroad not just hotels/b&bs/etc.

dev_ire

dev_ire wrote: »

Thanks everyone.

I would have a PPR elsewhere in the world, not just hotels and would only be home a few days each month so probably best to rent the house out fully and deal with all the tax and rental issues (potential issues, will put it up to an agency).

It would be the only address in Ireland somewhere would look to find me though.

Even if you can’t claim rent a room relief you should still be able to avoid a tenancy if you are staying there every month, all your mail there etc etc.

You can’t imo have a tenancy created when you have full access to the house and can move back in permenantally at the drop of a hat. A few here will disagree of course.

dev_ire

Would not claiming rent a room (because I don't want the possibility of getting screwed if they think I am not there enough) but renting out everything except one room via an agency help protect against me not being able to move back in?