Bull beef ?

farming93

Have a bull 480kg he s a Belgian blue that's 10.5 months old , what would I want to be doing to finish him at 16 months? He s getting 2kg of meal and first cut reseed silage at the minute. When do people generally start upping the levels of feed ? Prices are too poor to sell him now

epfff

farming93 wrote: »

Have a bull 480kg he s a Belgian blue that's 10.5 months old , what would I want to be doing to finish him at 16 months? He s getting 2kg of meal and first cut reseed silage at the minute. When do people generally start upping the levels of feed ? Prices are too poor to sell him now

Id start imcreasing by 2 kg evey5 days until you get to adlib straight away and feed untill very near the 16 months
If he is a good blue its very hard to get flesh cover I have had bad experiences with missing the grid.
Id swop over to a added fats nut for last 8 weeks

CloughCasey1

epfff wrote: »

Id start imcreasing by 2 kg evey5 days until you get to adlib straight away and feed untill very near the 16 months
If he is a good blue its very hard to get flesh cover I have had bad experiences with missing the grid.
Id swop over to a added fats nut for last 8 weeks

Have plenty of straw and good quality hay available for fibre intake. That lad could gross well north of 2k when hung. Id nearly feed him until June to get the best of flesh on him and they wont care what age he is when they dont have the supply. He'd be some weight by then.

farming93

Excellent I'll try drive him on so . I just wasn't sure if I was too early to drive him on at the minute on case he got over fat or stopped thriving. Is it through muscly bred animals are more susceptible to blackleg?

Cavanjack

farming93 wrote: »

Excellent I'll try drive him on so . I just wasn't sure if I was too early to drive him on at the minute on case he got over fat or stopped thriving. Is it through muscly bred animals are more susceptible to blackleg?

They'll only get blackleg outside afaik. I'd have him on adlib meal for the last 4 months at least. Give him a low protein high maize mix to get the right fat cover on him. Had a few blues last year up at 500kg carcass weight just get a 2+ fat score. These were heading for 24 months. Much harder with under 16 months

squinn2912

What’s the opinions on bull beef? Tried out a couple of pens of them this year and let one away today. Killed out from 350-440. 6xU2 abs 1xR3.
Took nearly two hours to load them they weren’t fir getting up on the Lorry at all. Quicker way to get your turn anyhow but there’s handling on them

charolais0153

squinn2912 wrote: »

What’s the opinions on bull beef? Tried out a couple of pens of them this year and let one away today. Killed out from 350-440. 6xU2 abs 1xR3.
Took nearly two hours to load them they weren’t fir getting up on the Lorry at all. Quicker way to get your turn anyhow but there’s handling on them

Were they 2+ or less? Big difference, will u do it next year? Price was dismal this year

CloughCasey1

squinn2912 wrote: »

What’s the opinions on bull beef? Tried out a couple of pens of them this year and let one away today. Killed out from 350-440. 6xU2 abs 1xR3.
Took nearly two hours to load them they weren’t fir getting up on the Lorry at all. Quicker way to get your turn anyhow but there’s handling on them

Over 11k in the hand anyway for ya.
Finished bulls are thick, lazy and stubborn. Hard to get them doing anything they dont want to do. I've 3 finishing here at the minute and will go in 3 wks or so. They cost 535 ave as weanlings and I out wintered them on a reseeded field but kept them going with a few kg of meal. Depends what you paid for them or how much it cost to rear them from your own cows. There is a nice turnover out of them but it's profit that counts.

squinn2912

charolais0153 wrote: »

Were they 2+ or less? Big difference, will u do it next year? Price was dismal this year

Not sure my father phoned up and I just saw his notes. I’d say we’re looking at 3.34-3.44. I think there’s a bit to be made and we were lucky they didn’t jump on each other or anything but I thought they’d gain weight better. Bullocks won’t bring in much more a year later

squinn2912

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Over 11k in the hand anyway for ya.
Finished bulls are thick, lazy and stubborn. Hard to get them doing anything they dont want to do. I've 3 finishing here at the minute and will go in 3 wks or so. They cost 535 ave as weanlings and I out wintered them on a reseeded field but kept them going with a few kg of meal. Depends what you paid for them or how much it cost to rear them from your own cows. There is a nice turnover out of them but it's profit that counts.

That’s very good going. What weight are they? Very ignorant animals .

CloughCasey1

squinn2912 wrote: »

That’s very good going. What weight are they? Very ignorant animals .

Dunno weight. Won't be disturbing them now anyway to weigh. Fat score is my concern. Getting into a 3- would be ideal but hard done. Hopefully kill out at 350+kg R=3-. Will know all in a few weeks.

squinn2912

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Dunno weight. Won't be disturbing them now anyway to weigh. Fat score is my concern. Getting into a 3- would be ideal but hard done. Hopefully kill out at 350+kg R=3-. Will know all in a few weeks.

Yea mine were all 2s I thought one saler was very fat and sure he’d be R but no he got a u2 at 13 months. Big Lim fella killed at 61%

blue5000

squinn2912 wrote: »

What’s the opinions on bull beef? Tried out a couple of pens of them this year and let one away today. Killed out from 350-440. 6xU2 abs 1xR3.
Took nearly two hours to load them they weren’t fir getting up on the Lorry at all. Quicker way to get your turn anyhow but there’s handling on them

You will learn a few tricks as you go. Dangerous lads here get the tractor driven up behind them in a narrow passage way. Another trick if you're grazing them is to put a cull cow in with them, nudge the cow along and they'll follow her.

Bass Reeves

They are always hard to load, you cannot afford any mistakes.Trying to take 5-6 lads out of a pen of 10-12 is another pain lad on the gate needs to be grand and wide. it a few years since I had them and I never miss them. too much messing and you are always wary of them. you need a good tight spot to load them and a gate that can be closed if they try to turn back.

Not really sure about the margin on them especially on 2 years old ones. lots of lads are only turning money on them with no real margin. With rations hitting nearly 300/ ton last winter some of those bulls were eating over 500 euro.

squinn2912

Yea we tied a gate on the teleporter and coaxed them up. If they do face you you need to give them room fast to get away.

You might never fatten them if they were on grass with a cow.

Yea I worked out roughly they might have made £3/day while a bullock maybe £2.30 but would need to add up meal into that. I think in the pen of bullocks it’s easy to pull 2/3 out ready first. We got cut 18p on one for being 434kgs and U1 fat. Frigger could be 500kgs if he was fat. Not that happy with them. Big lim carcass mightn’t be the job at all I wonder would angus/Hereford be a better turn

CloughCasey1

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea we tied a gate on the teleporter and coaxed them up. If they do face you you need to give them room fast to get away.

You might never fatten them if they were on grass with a cow.

Yea I worked out roughly they might have made £3/day while a bullock maybe £2.30 but would need to add up meal into that. I think in the pen of bullocks it’s easy to pull 2/3 out ready first. We got cut 18p on one for being 434kgs and U1 fat. Frigger could be 500kgs if he was fat. Not that happy with them. Big lim carcass mightn’t be the job at all I wonder would angus/Hereford be a better turn

You'd have some chance if aax/hex out of suckler bred stock. They would want to be smashing dairy stock to leave anything. They would get fat alright but wouldn't weigh well on killout.

squinn2912

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

You'd have some chance if aax/hex out of suckler bred stock. They would want to be smashing dairy stock to leave anything. They would get fat alright but wouldn't weigh well on killout.

Yea that's what's in my head. What's the point in going after the big continental carcass only for them to rip £80 quid off your price? We have big lim cows many of them are 750 plus kgs. Sold two culled ones a cow heifer at 750 and a cow at 795 with meal in them. I'm wondering how they'd cross to the hereford. Be ok for bull beef and you'd get all the replacements you'd want. Also the cows would spit out calves like that and your cattle would be quieter and no call to ever horn much. A lot to be said for it..

Albert Johnson

Would the replacements from such a cross be capable of producing stock that would feed into viable weights for bull beef though? The first crop of heifers off big continental cows should be capable but every subsequent generation is going to have more HE or AA blood which will reduce the size and scope of the cows imo. You'd still end up using some continental bulls to produce suitable replacements and might only complicate the system further.

It's something I've considered but I believe keeping a HE, AA or SH type cow and crossing to a continental bull would be more beneficial. The cows would be easier fed and generally cheaper to maintain imo. The continental bull should introduce a bit of size and scope into the mix which I'd imagine would be crucial in bull beef. The main drawback I'd see from suckler stock with traditional breeding would be that selling weanlings or stores would take a hit compared to continental type stock. However the benefits of an easier maintained cow may out weigh the reduced sale price.

In your own personal case I understand that having a herd of good continental cows already it would be preferable to use them as a base for any subsequent breeding policy.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Would the replacements from such a cross be capable of producing stock that would feed into viable weights for bull beef though? The first crop of heifers off big continental cows should be capable but every subsequent generation is going to have more HE or AA blood which will reduce the size and scope of the cows imo. You'd still end up using some continental bulls to produce suitable replacements and might only complicate the system further.

It's something I've considered but I believe keeping a HE, AA or SH type cow and crossing to a continental bull would be more beneficial. The cows would be easier fed and generally cheaper to maintain imo. The continental bull should introduce a bit of size and scope into the mix which I'd imagine would be crucial in bull beef. The main drawback I'd see from suckler stock with traditional breeding would be that selling weanlings or stores would take a hit compared to continental type stock. However the benefits of an easier maintained cow may out weigh the reduced sale price.

In your own personal case I understand that having a herd of good continental cows already it would be preferable to use them as a base for any subsequent breeding policy.

Thanks for your contribution. That's the quandary but there isn't much point in continuing with lads that are getting a 1 fat score at 710kgs weight with a carcass of 434. I see your point. A lot of guys seem to change their bulls regularly every 3-4 years - maternal then terminal so that's going through my head. Are you better of with a 650kgs girl who will have a calf that kills out fat at somewhere around the same weight? This is my first go at bulls and admittedly their silage wasn't good enough to do them right, but they got all the meal they wanted or could handle. Maybe I'm asking too much - they averaged £1300.

I need to do the sums again and figure out what they'd get squeezed or as weanlings. As bullocks I'd have them an additional 4-5 months at least and get from 1200-1400 based on £2/kg. As weanlings the best ones about £900 but some of the lesser lads as low as £650 (saler that made £1170 yesterday).

grassroot1

Maybe this is the point at which you introduce stabliser genetics to your herd?

squinn2912

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe this is the point at which you introduce stabliser genetics to your herd?

I know littje about the breed but they’re not popular here. We’ve a farm meeting tomorrow and I’m going to bring it up but I’ve seen some sorry sorts of those about. They’d remind me of the saler calf that was 1170 but 5 months ago would’ve been 650. Very average cattle just my opinion

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe this is the point at which you introduce stabliser genetics to your herd?

I know littje about the breed but they’re not popular here. We’ve a farm meeting tomorrow and I’m going to bring it up but I’ve seen some sorry sorts of those about. They’d remind me of the saler calf that was 1170 but 5 months ago would’ve been 650. Very average cattle just my opinion

I've no direct experience of stabilisers and I agree that the few examples I've encountered were average type stock. However there ancestry includes AA and HE so they aren't that fair removed from your proposed breeding plan. Perhaps on a good continental cow they might deliver a suitable compromise between style and function.

I believe that your going to have to accept a more average beast if you go down the route of incorporating traditional breeds into the herd. Hence my comments about the resulting progeny being worth less as weanlings or stores although a reduction in costs may offset this loss in sale price. Were you happy with the performance of the SA bull? If not then I struggle to see how an AA or HE will deliver any different of a result. It's harder to judge the merits of home bred stock compared to those bought in as it's all about the cost of production imo.

I'm not trying to pick holes in your set up be it current or proposed. It's all about what works for you and what level of return you're contented with. For example I'd consider the SA bull going from 650 to 1170 in 5 months every bit as good as a CH doing 900 to 1420 in the same timeframe. Especially if the SA or similar could be produced for less, it's the margin more so than the sum that I'm looking at.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I've no direct experience of stabilisers and I agree that the few examples I've encountered were average type stock. However there ancestry includes AA and HE so they aren't that fair removed from your proposed breeding plan. Perhaps on a good continental cow they might deliver a suitable compromise between style and function.

I believe that your going to have to accept a more average beast if you go down the route of incorporating traditional breeds into the herd. Hence my comments about the resulting progeny being worth less as weanlings or stores although a reduction in costs may offset this loss in sale price. Were you happy with the performance of the SA bull? If not then I struggle to see how an AA or HE will deliver any different of a result. It's harder to judge the merits of home bred stock compared to those bought in as it's all about the cost of production imo.

I'm not trying to pick holes in your set up be it current or proposed. It's all about what works for you and what level of return you're contented with. For example I'd consider the SA bull going from 650 to 1170 in 5 months every bit as good as a CH doing 900 to 1420 in the same timeframe. Especially if the SA or similar could be produced for less, it's the margin more so than the sum that I'm looking at.

It's hard to say. I changed Lim bull 18 months ago so we'll see how his calves perform. I want to avoid these huge carcasses and low fat scores anyhow. 2 of 7 do skew the data though to be fair. The others were around the 380 kgs mark which is ok.

That's a good point about the SA fellow. I was unclear he is home bred I'm just estimating what he was worth as a weanling. The flashy Lims would have been worth more but he'd be taken away at £650. The Lims didn't perform badly I was just hoping for a bit more. I'm not sure it was just the silage quality. I've a friend who had ones neck and neck with them in early March and he's killing them at 750kgs (too heavy but still a big thriving difference).

I sold a Lim weanling at 10 months a few weeks ago at £1080. I don't think it would have been worth my while keeping him on for bull beef for another £350. I'll talk to the facilitator of the farm group tonight to see what his thoughts are but I think I'd be for squeezing them this year.

Dakota Dan

blue5000 wrote: »

You will learn a few tricks as you go. Dangerous lads here get the tractor driven up behind them in a narrow passage way. Another trick if you're grazing them is to put a cull cow in with them, nudge the cow along and they'll follow her.

I had a bull in a shed since he was a calf 450kg and no way would he come out of the shed, so I parked the cowbox outside for a few hours and still no go. I ended up putting a cow into the box and he was in there with her in 5 minutes.

Dakota Dan

farming93 wrote: »

Have a bull 480kg he s a Belgian blue that's 10.5 months old , what would I want to be doing to finish him at 16 months? He s getting 2kg of meal and first cut reseed silage at the minute. When do people generally start upping the levels of feed ? Prices are too poor to sell him now

Did you get the bull finished?

squinn2912

Got a bit of feedback from the facilitator who also killed bulls this week. His came into about £1350 but didn't kill out great. He sent a bullock along with them and worked all out that he got £150 less but had £150 less meal in him. We looked at a few things and there was a fiver in it. Point he made was that if you do bull beef the advantage isn't over the bullocks but it's that you can afford to keep more cows due to demand on grass being less. I think I'll go back to bullocks though, I'd rather be able to pull ones out as and when I want or need to.