Driving unlicensed

csfo

Hi,

So i was pulled over having been in process of renewing driving licence for holding phone in car. When guard asked me about license i said i hadntit with me but ran in following day to get it renewed and dropped it down to station within 10 days. got 3 summons and trying to figure out what to do and how screwed i am. one for driving without license (which i now realised technically is correct) for not having one on me (again technically correct) and not producing one which i did? any ideas how screwed am i? cant find law around this anywhere and worried about consequences for my job

Drumorig

Just bring your licence to court and say you produced within 10 days. The judge should strike it out.

punisher5112

Did you hold a full licence?

You can of course be done for not having on you.

If you did and do have a licence that is valid then the rest should be struck out.

tuxy

Drumorig wrote: »

Just bring your licence to court and say you produced within 10 days. The judge should strike it out.

What if the guard or judge sees the renewal date on the licence?
If the guard does his job correctly he will inform the judge about this.

tuxy

punisher5112 wrote: »

Did you hold a full licence?

You can of course be done for not having on you.

If you did and do have a licence that is valid then the rest should be struck out.

He didn't renew the licence he had previously lost until after being pulled over by the guard.

F1ngers

punisher5112 wrote: »

Did you hold a full licence?

You can of course be done for not having on you.

If you did and do have a licence that is valid then the rest should be struck out.

From reading OP it was not valid as "ran in following day to get it renewed".
So license was not valid on date in question.

whomitconcerns

csfo wrote: »

should add guard does not seem a reasonable man

But you were the one on the phone driving not in possession of a valid licence...

Yeh.. He's the one with the problem...

Wildly Boaring

F1ngers wrote: »

From reading OP it was not valid as "ran in following day to get it renewed".
So license was not valid on date in question.

Exactly. If he was in the process as claimed the licence would be in the post and he would have had a receipt to produce.

Assuming these are full licences I cannot see a judge throw the book at you. You have passed the test and I assume no major points issues?

More administrative and forgetfulness than trying to do anything illegal.

Get solicitor involved. Preferably one the judge is used to.

Points and a fine.

Drumorig

tuxy wrote: »

What if the guard or judge sees the renewal date on the licence?
If the guard does his job correctly he will inform the judge about this.

Hold your hands up and say you forgot but you defo produced at the station. He should still strike it out.

tuxy

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Assuming these are full licences I cannot see a judge throw the book at you. You have passed the test and I assume no major points issues?

My understanding is he had no licence as he had previously lost it for points acquired for using the phone while driving.
Enough time had passed for him to get his licence back but he was driving around before he bothered to go do that.

But the OP is a bit confusing so I may be wrong.

punisher5112

F1ngers wrote: »

From reading OP it was not valid as "ran in following day to get it renewed".
So license was not valid on date in question.

I get that but in most cases if one does let it lapse they have 10 years to renew if a full.

I've done it myself for a few months where licence is in wallet and completely forget it's out.

Most judges will see you had no reason to not renew just lapse of thinking of getting it done.

Wildly Boaring

tuxy wrote: »

My understanding is he had no licence as he had previously lost it for points acquired for using the phone while driving.
Enough time had passed for him to get his licence back but he was driving around before he bothered to go do that.

But the OP is a bit confusing so I may be wrong.

Reading it again I'd say you're right.

And the garda has the problem???????

Perhaps stick to the rules from now on

Cockadoodledoo

tuxy wrote: »

My understanding is he had no licence as he had previously lost it for points acquired for using the phone while driving.
Enough time had passed for him to get his licence back but he was driving around before he bothered to go do that.

But the OP is a bit confusing so I may be wrong.

Is it not that he was pulled over for using his phone and then was asked for his licence which he didn’t have

tuxy

Cockadoodledoo wrote: »

Is it not that he was pulled over for using his phone and then was asked for his licence which he didn’t have

It could be either as he didn't use correct punctuation I can't tell for sure.

Naos

tuxy wrote: »

It could be either as he didn't use correct punctuation I can't tell for sure.

I'd say you're right Tuxy, considering driving with a phone is not one of his summons.

mr c

if you didn't have a licence on the day you were stopped
then it is correct you didn't produce a licence
as it was not covering the date of the traffic stop

did you have a licence that you misplaced and were getting one reissued ?

or were you not registered with any driving licence on the day of the traffic stop?

Cockadoodledoo

Naos wrote: »

I'd say you're right Tuxy, considering driving with a phone is not one of his summons.

Ohhhhhh I didn’t think of that! Is it possible he would have received his points/fine for that and the summons are separate?

csfo

punisher5112 wrote: »

Did you hold a full licence?

You can of course be done for not having on you.

If you did and do have a licence that is valid then the rest should be struck out.

Yes a full valid licence. I had appointment in to get it renewed but earliesf appointment given was several days away.

csfo

tuxy wrote: »

What if the guard or judge sees the renewal date on the licence?
If the guard does his job correctly he will inform the judge about this.

yes this is what I'm asking about

csfo

Cockadoodledoo wrote: »

Ohhhhhh I didn’t think of that! Is it possible he would have received his points/fine for that and the summons are separate?

yes thats what happened

csfo

mr c wrote: »

if you didn't have a licence on the day you were stopped
then it is correct you didn't produce a licence
as it was not covering the date of the traffic stop

did you have a licence that you misplaced and were getting one reissued ?

or were you not registered with any driving licence on the day of the traffic stop?

reissued

Does anyone know what the consequences are ?

tuxy

Will be grand, just explain to the judge that you lied to the garda but you have the upmost respect for them.

csfo

tuxy wrote: »

Will be grand, just explain to the judge that you lied to the garda but you have the upmost respect for them.

I didnt actually lie to the guard. I should also add my driving licence was out by 6 weeks as I misread the date on it and thought it was still in date.

tuxy

Well since you got a summons for not producing a licence even though you did there is a good chance the garda noticed the date of renewal on the licence you did produce.

Just state your case to the judge.
He will either dismiss it, ask you to donate to charity or give you a minor fine.
It's unusual that a garda is so unreasonable that you feel you can't contact the station and get him to give you a quick call but I guess it does happen.

csfo

tuxy wrote: »

Well since you got a summons for not producing a licence even though you did there is a good chance the garda noticed the date of renewal on the licence you did produce.

Just state your case to the judge.
He will either dismiss it, ask you to donate to charity or give you a minor fine.
It's unusual that a garda is so unreasonable that you feel you can't contact the station and get him to give you a quick call but I guess it does happen.

Thanks for your help. The garda I spoke to suggested contacting the man himself. I'm debating contacting him but just dont want to make matters worse. I think I need to remove that statement I'm not trying to slander the man in anyways. I'll cope with a fine and probably deserve that but I'm so unfamiliar with this procedure am concerned about imprisonment or being put off the road.

tuxy

Well don't worry about prison, there are people with hundreds of convictions walking the streets as prisons are full!

Talking to the garda won't harm your case. Just be polite and ask why you are being summonsed for not producing when you did ( state time and date)

Not legal advice so get a second opinion but you won't be taken off the road the worst case scenario is a small fine.

n!ghtmancometh

Driving without a valid license would also invalidate your insurance, so surprised you weren't summonsed for that as well.

Guard will definitely or has already noticed the date on your new license issued after the day he stopped you and he can easily check out your license history anyway, so I'd expect a fine and points on your license. Might be worth contacting a solicitor to speak for you in all honesty.

n!ghtmancometh

tuxy wrote: »

Well don't worry about prison, there are people with hundreds of convictions walking the streets as prisons are full!

Talking to the garda won't harm your case. Just be polite and ask why you are being summonsed for not producing when you did ( state time and date)

Not legal advice so get a second opinion but you won't be taken off the road the worst case scenario is a small fine.

He told the guard he had a license on the day he was stopped. He lied, and wasn't currently holding a license. He went and got his renewed and produced that. That license doesn't cover him for the day he was stopped. Hence the summons for non production.

tuxy

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Guard will definitely or has already noticed the date on your new license issued after the day he stopped you and he can easily check out your license history anyway, so I'd expect a fine and points on your license. Might be worth contacting a solicitor to speak for you in all honesty.

You don't know for sure, it could be the guarda at the desk that day didn't record it correctly.

As for no insurance cover that will depend on the policy the OP has.

KERSPLAT!

tuxy wrote: »

You don't know for sure, it could be the guarda at the desk that day didn't record it correctly.

As for no insurance cover that will depend on the policy the OP has.

Are there policies that cover unlicensed drivers?

tuxy

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Are there policies that cover unlicensed drivers?

I believe there are some where the contract is still valid if it's a full licence that has only recently expired.

Etc

Going through the ordeal of reading the replies on this thread has to be worse than any penalty a judge will hand down.

mickdw

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Are there policies that cover unlicensed drivers?

Every policy I've seen says - provided driver had licence or is not banned from holding a licence.
A lapsed licence does therefore not mean uninsured.

tuxy

Yes that sounds correct to me.

Eggs For Dinner

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Driving without a valid license would also invalidate your insurance, so surprised you weren't summonsed for that as well.
.

Driving with an expired licence does not invalidate your insurance

tuxy

Good that we got that cleared up. The OP is freaking out enough as it is.
I know of people with worse convictions that were not banned. If you need your car for work and the offence is not one that carries a mandatory ban your licence is fairly safe. Judges are very understanding(sometimes too understanding) in such situations.

mickdw

It would appear the offence here is using a phone while driving and having a recently expired licence - which he was not banned from holding and was renewed and presented within 10 days.
I'd imagine judge would be more upset at the garda for putting this in front of him than the driver.
I'd imagine the whole lot will be struck out assuming points have been applied for phone use already.

tuxy

mickdw wrote: »

I'd imagine judge would be more upset at the garda for putting this in front of him than the driver.

This is why I think there may be a chance the garda thinks he didn't produce any licence at the station. I think it would be a good idea to contact the garda.
If the garda is being awkward at least you know what you're dealing with and no harm done once you are polite.

csfo

yes thanks for all the advice. Its just all new to me and I know i messed up.

Im thinking I'll clarify details with station and talk to guard (eventhough I'm not looking forward to it). i noticed the summons has misspelled my address so maybe he checked the system for wrong address or something and failing that have to get legal advice.

I phoned insurance company who confirmed about the license and also said there's a month long grace period in law for renewal of licenses so murphys law i would be out by a fortnight.

this isnt like me at all but hopefully like you said if its not something that results in imprisonment or ban from driving i can cope! i imagine may get more points but can cope with that too.

tuxy

csfo wrote: »

this isnt like me at all but hopefully like you said if its not something that results in imprisonment or ban from driving i can cope! i imagine may get more points but can cope with that too.

Get this idea out of your head, none of those things will happen. The judge can't even give you points as the offences on the summons do not carry points.
You will get a small fine but only if both judge and garda are being stubborn.
You made a small mistake, have owned up and are doing everything you can to sort it out.

Del2005

tuxy wrote: »

Talking to the garda won't harm your case. Just be polite and ask why you are being summonsed for not producing when you did ( state time and date)

Talking to the Garda will be of no benefit. The OP is going to have to turn up in court and hope for the best because even if the Garda has a look and says its grand they could forget to cancel the summons, if they can cancel the summons, so the OP will be convicted in their absence.

tuxy

Can you ring the court a few days beforehand to see if the case is listed?

corks finest

whomitconcerns wrote: »

csfo wrote: »

should add guard does not seem a reasonable man

But you were the one on the phone driving not in possession of a valid licence...

Yeh.. He's the one with the problem...

Must be some Langer to be in a phone whilst TRYING to drive FFS

Esel

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Driving without a valid license would also invalidate your insurance, so surprised you weren't summonsed for that as well.

Scaremongering and untrue.

OP, talk to the Garda.

Del2005

tuxy wrote: »

Can you ring the court a few days beforehand to see if the case is listed?

The advise to anyone asking a similar question in the Legal forum is to always turn up on the day.

jacool

tuxy wrote: »

Can you ring the court a few days beforehand to see if the case is listed?

Don't do this while driving.

mookishboy

I thought that your License was held in Shannon and that the the card you have is only the required proof that you have said license.

tuxy

mookishboy wrote: »

I thought that your License was held in Shannon and that the the card you have is only the required proof that you have said license.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/7/section/25/enacted/en/html

mookishboy

That is the penalties for not producing and the requirements to carry one. Does not mean he doesn't have one. only the card that proves he has a license

tuxy

mookishboy wrote: »

I thought that your License was held in Shannon and that the the card you have is only the required proof that you have said license.

The law says you have to produce the licence there and then.

and if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he shall be guilty of an offence.

It says nothing about producing a card that is proof of licence.