Recovering deposit of 2,900 euro?

JonMac

I placed an order with a small company in September and paid the 50% deposit that they asked for by cheque.
Delivery was promised for around November 12th.
On November 9th they said they would deliver on the 16th and asked for the balance. When I said I preferred to pay on delivery they didn't seem to have a problem.
No show on the 16th, and no response to phone calls, emails or texts.
On the 22nd I got a call from a different person and was promised delivery on 30th. Again no show and no calls.
I have since googled and found that they have quite a history of financial problems [I did search initially but I now wish I had searched more thoroughly].
I am concerned that they are not going to deliver at all.
I would appreciate suggestions about what I can do. It seems the small claims court is limited to 2,000.
Thanks.

dudara

Has the cheque been cashed already?

Dakota Dan

Have you a receipt for the deposit? Keep all the paperwork and contact details. Send them a letter threatening to go to your solicitor if you haven’t received the good or the deposit refunded by a certain date.

Atlantic Dawn

Are they still in business? Do they have a premises you can visit and question where your goods or money are?

JonMac

The cheque was cashed promptly, I assume I can get a copy from Bank of Ireland.
I don't have a receipt but I do have an email thanking me for the order, plus an invoice.
Their "showroom" is 200km away so I don't want to just go there on the off chance.
I'm wondering how much a solicitor would charge.
Small claims is limited to 2,000, so maybe I could just go after that. What do you think?

Dakota Dan

JonMac wrote: »

The cheque was cashed promptly, I assume I can get a copy from Bank of Ireland.
I don't have a receipt but I do have an email thanking me for the order, plus an invoice.
Their "showroom" is 200km away so I don't want to just go there on the off chance.
I'm wondering how much a solicitor would charge.
Small claims is limited to 2,000, so maybe I could just go after that. What do you think?

Solicitor will charge between 2-300 for the initial letter and if that doesn’t work you’ll have to go further.

NSAman

The joys of credit cards for such situations

JonMac

Agreed. He wouldn't take a credit card; asked for bank transfer.

LionelNashe

Sounds like he maybe has cashflow problems. If you're lucky, your order is at least half-built and you'll get it at some point. If you're unlucky, he has spent your money on materials for some other customer and he doesn't have the funds to get started on your job.

Graniteville

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Solicitor will charge between 2-300 for the initial letter and if that doesn’t work you’ll have to go further.

That would be for a top end firm.

Use a solicitor you have used previously for house purchase or similar and you'll pay a lot less.

But going the legal route can take a few months and even then it's just a piece of paper.

Best to approach in a good manner and try get delivery of the goods.

Atlantic Dawn

Tell them you will be down to them in 1 week unless you are refunded, then go down to them on their busiest day of the week and demand a refund or for extra points get a banner printed about your issue and walk up and down outside their premises, the damage you will do to their trade will focus their minds.

Graniteville

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Tell them you will be down to them in 1 week unless you are refunded, then go down to them on their busiest day of the week and demand a refund or for extra points get a banner printed about your issue and walk up and down outside their premises, the damage you will do to their trade will focus their minds.

That approach never ever works.

mickdw

Graniteville wrote: »

That approach never ever works.

Oh it does.

Graniteville

mickdw wrote: »

Oh it does.

If such approach caused excessive damage to a reputation, over and above your loss, a VERY expensive defamation action would be on the cards.

Basic defamation action costs are circa 20k and easily go higher.

claff1978

In a similar situation myself do you mind me asking what was the product you had ordered

the_pen_turner

Graniteville wrote: »

If such approach caused excessive damage to a reputation, over and above your loss, a VERY expensive defamation action would be on the cards.

Basic defamation action costs are circa 20k and easily go higher.

surely it has to be false to be defamation.
clearly stating the facts wouldnt be defamation

FishOnABike

Graniteville wrote: »

If such approach caused excessive damage to a reputation, over and above your loss, a VERY expensive defamation action would be on the cards.

Basic defamation action costs are circa 20k and easily go higher.

One needs to be very careful that what is said or published is provably true.

Only a false statement is actionable. But defamation differs from other torts in that a statement will be presumed to be defamatory until proved otherwise. If a defendant wishes to plead justification as a defence, he has to prove the truth of the statement.

JonMac

PM sent to Claff1978

NSAman

JonMac wrote: »

Agreed. He wouldn't take a credit card; asked for bank transfer.

No offence, but if someone will not accept a credit card I wouldn't be ordering from them. I know hindsight is 20/20 but all deposits I make are made using a credit card.

Audioslaven

NSAman wrote: »

No offence, but if someone will not accept a credit card I wouldn't be ordering from them. I know hindsight is 20/20 but all deposits I make are made using a credit card.

Some may be put off by Credit card in case a ripped off credit card is used. I was purchasing from Germany and the company only wanted transfer of funds and credit card was not accepted. No issue with the order so companies have rules around payments.

my3cents

Audioslaven wrote: »

Some may be put off by Credit card in case a ripped off credit card is used. I was purchasing from Germany and the company only wanted transfer of funds and credit card was not accepted. No issue with the order so companies have rules around payments.

But its wasn't a company in Germany where they don't do things the way we do. Here in Ireland only crooks ask for credit transfers.

A credit transfer isn't much different to asking for cash, only difference is its traceable but still not recoverable like a credit card payment.

L1011

Germany is a special, weird case.

Sleeper12

JonMac wrote:

Agreed. He wouldn't take a credit card; asked for bank transfer.

This should have set off alarm bells. Credit card gives you the best protection but even a debit card would allow you to charge back. Too late in your case but thought I'd post so others reading would know in the future

Hoping this has a happy ending for you

the_pen_turner

credit card give great protection to the customer but put the company at great risk if the customer cancels the order and decides to charge back the deposit.

i wouldnt accept credit card for a deposit

JonMac

Update. I am making some progress - the vendor has just delivered the product minus some features. I am sure that there were cash flow problems before he was able to pay his supplier in the UK.
The complete absence of communication for nearly 3 weeks after promised delivery date is very unprofessional.
One benefit of paying by cheque is that I was able to withhold money for the missing features.
Thank you to everyone for their comments.

Tow

Graniteville wrote: »

That approach never ever works.

A relation of mine once spent the day in the reception of one of Ireland's best known business men. Waiting patiently for his long promised cheque and having 'little chats' which all the other people who happened to be waiting in reception. At the end of the day the 'well know business man' (who was not there according to the receptionist) can down to receptions, have him his F***ing cheque and told him to get out of the F***ing building.

runawaybishop

Graniteville wrote: »

That approach never ever works.

Banner seems over the top but showing up in person and speaking publicly about your issues in front of other customers has worked for me.

Graniteville

runawaybishop wrote: »

Banner seems over the top but showing up in person and speaking publicly about your issues in front of other customers has worked for me.

That's quite different approach as it would be seen as a reasonable response.

However an approach where you are seen as setting out to damage someone business over and above your own issue would be fraught with legal difficulty.

my3cents

Graniteville wrote: »

That's quite different approach as it would be seen as a reasonable response.

However an approach where you are seen as setting out to damage someone business over and above your own issue would be fraught with legal difficulty.

No its not an unreasonable response if you have approached the seller and they have made it clear they aren't going to help.

I've seen it done with great effect. A trailer parked outside a shop with a faulty item in it a copy of the letter refusing to repair refund or replace the item and a big sign saying this is how company X treats its customers.

A think it took less than an hour for a refund to be forthcoming.

JonMac

I am having a problem with a vendor who has not delivered my order in full. After several weeks delay, I now have about 90% of what I ordered.
Am I in my rights to tell him to forget the remaining 10% and to withhold about 10% of the agreed price?

Xterminator

no. you cannot unilaterally change the terms. check the T&C's of the website/vendor in question to know whats their policy is.

Then you can ring/email and tell them, what you want done to resolve the issue, but bear in mind what you have agreed to, via the T&C's.

See can you agree a settlement; but they could deliver outstanding goods when available and chase you for full amount, if you just went ahead with withholding payment without agreement.

JonMac

Thanks for your input.
I've looked at their website and the quotation and there is no sign of T%C's.
Does that change anything?
Luckily I am paying by cheque so I can manage how much he gets.

Xterminator

well it does change things a little as you have not accepted any small print. also i am surmising you have already paid him for what he has delivered? If so then there is no outstanding debt etc, it will help you make a clean break.

what do you have in writing? quotes etc. If there is no 'contract' then you would be within your rights to refuse delivery.

id still call him, and send a letter to his business address explaining you have waited a reasonable time, and are now cancelling the remaining order and get anything else you need from another supplier.

JonMac

Final [?] update. After a 5 week delay I've received about 90% of what I ordered and have paid 92% to close down the hassle.
Paying by cheque gave me the ability to motivate him to continue to deliver what I wanted.
In retrospect, I had googled the company but at that point I didn't know his name. Googling his name would have warned me off he has as several public negative financial events.

JonMac

I ended up with about 90% of what I wanted and paid him 92% to stop the hassle. He agreed to the amount.

Gazzmonkey

Graniteville wrote: »

If such approach caused excessive damage to a reputation, over and above your loss, a VERY expensive defamation action would be on the cards.

Basic defamation action costs are circa 20k and easily go higher.

Its not defamation if its true though

JonMac

There has been no "defamation" in this case, although I was tempted.

dudara

Related threads merged together.

dudara

mdebets

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Its not defamation if its true though

It's not defamation if you can prove it's true.