Electric Scooters

Ray Palmer

There has been a definite increase in people using electric scooters around Dublin even with a TD claiming to use one for his commute. I have encounter a few of them and I personally think they are unsafe and being unsafely driven. Why I am a hated cyclist anyway I am sure motorists detest them too.
The small wheel base and low clearance is my main concern about safety but the speed is an issue. I was passed by one and it was easily doing 40kph and he hopped on and off the road and cycle lane on the path.

kneemos

Are they mechanically propelled vehicles?

Ray Palmer

kneemos wrote: »

Are they mechanically propelled vehicles?

Yes and I know that means they are classed as a vehicles that requires motor tax, registration, licence and insurance. As such legislation exists but they are here and being used.

Ipso

They went through a bit of a fad in san Francisco, are the ones you're talking about rentals?
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Bye-bye-SF-scooters-as-Bird-Lime-and-Spin-go-on-12966874.php

D3V!L

kneemos wrote: »

Are they mechanically propelled vehicles?

Yes , yes they are.

You'll find your average Garda "unable to stop them due to a grey area" though :rolleyes:

Ray Palmer

Ipso wrote: »

They went through a bit of a fad in san Francisco, are the ones you're talking about rentals?
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Bye-bye-SF-scooters-as-Bird-Lime-and-Spin-go-on-12966874.php

No people are buying them and some go 50kph

Turns out there is some confusion
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1114/1010870-electric-scooter/

Feisar

So what you are telling me is jetpacks are legal.

Feisar

A cyclist can do a fair speed 30KMPH ish? So if the scooter needs tax/insurance/licence, then surely the peddle cycle does.

kneemos

Feisar wrote: »

A cyclist can do a fair speed 30KMPH ish? So if the scooter needs tax/insurance/licence, then surely the peddle cycle does.

Not unless they have a motor. Some of them are battery assisted,though I think you have to pedal as well so maybe that's the loophole.
Those two stroke motorised bikes seem to have died out.

Ray Palmer

Feisar wrote: »

A cyclist can do a fair speed 30KMPH ish? So if the scooter needs tax/insurance/licence, then surely the peddle cycle does.

It isn't about speed it is the fact a motor powers them completely. Thanks for playing the predictable response game while ignore information. :rolleyes:

whiskeyman

Anything that gets more cars off the roads needs to be welcomed.

Still need to factor in safety for them and other road / path users of course.

Like so many things, useless if no enforcement.

Il Fascista

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It isn't about speed it is the fact a motor powers them completely. Thanks for playing the predictable response game while ignore information. :rolleyes:

Which doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider that e bikes with manual throttle are illegal, only assisted ones are allowed on the road from my understanding.

kneemos

Il Fascista wrote: »

Which doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider that e bikes with manual throttle are illegal, only assisted ones are allowed on the road from my understanding.

If they can't do more than 45kph they're fine I think.

Ray Palmer

Il Fascista wrote: »

Which doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider that e bikes with manual throttle are illegal, only assisted ones are allowed on the road from my understanding.

They are both illegal without insurance and licence

TheValeyard

Cookie_Monster

It high time the law caught up with technology and recognised all these elec MPVs are not the same as traditional cars and motorbikes and should not need all the ridiculous levels of insurance etc.
They should be allowed use the roads exactly the same as cyclists but I favour a complete ban on footpaths / pedestrian areas.

VeryTerry

I have no problem with them on roads or cycle lanes. They have no place on footpaths like anything else that aren't feet.

Ray Palmer

While not the same as motorbike or car allowing them without restrictions is crazy. If they are allowed at these speeds then electric bike legislation would also need to be changed too. They aren't allowed over 25kph on assist mode.

The idea of a person moving at 25kph and hitting a pothole will not end well with those tiny wheels. They also are able to fit on much smaller paths than a bike that would fit on

Ray Palmer

VeryTerry wrote: »

I have no problem with them on roads or cycle lanes. They have no place on footpaths like anything else that aren't feet.

You going to put all the people in wheel chairs on the roads along with kids on normal scooter or skates?

VeryTerry

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You going to put all the people in wheel chairs on the roads along with kids on normal scooter or skates?

No. If you had any common sense you'd realise that.

Ray Palmer

VeryTerry wrote: »

No. If you had any common sense you'd realise that.

I was pointing out how stupid your comment was. You are the one who said it don't blame me because you said it. You could have thought before you typed it out.

VeryTerry

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I was pointing out how stupid your comment was. You are the one who said it don't blame me because you said it. You could have thought before you typed it out.

Ah you got me. I'm so stupid.

1800_Ladladlad

I think you should have a bit of cop on when it comes to being on a path when on a e-scooter, bike, e-bike or sometimes a skateboard. Its called having respect for people around you. Stop or get off the path. Making this specially for e scooters is invalid when idiots on bikes use the paths on a day to day basis. Im a cyclist and see it first hard. There are ignorant people everywhere using the roads . Wha i find irritating are kids on the push scooters and the ones with the heeleys lol


The subject OP , should be surrounding electronic motors tother than e-cars or e-motorbikes. Because I have had multi issues with people on e bikes and those segway things between the feet. I havent had any issue with the e scooters , any I have seen got off to mount the path or went realy slow.

anyway how would you tax it etc Iv used one to commute to test it out, and they are quite handy. Tax one e-device then you tax all, its as simple as that. Its a stupid idea

Feisar

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It isn't about speed it is the fact a motor powers them completely. Thanks for playing the predictable response game while ignore information. :rolleyes:

My humblest apologies for being predictale.

biko

Feisar wrote: »

So what you are telling me is jetpacks are legal.

Feisar

biko wrote: »

no seat!?!

silverharp

if you have no pride i guess it works. there was one ahead of me on the canal the other day, suddenly he disappeared only to see a garda checking cars up the road, the little chickensh1t didnt have the balls to own it.

Bluefoam

L1e-A is the law that governs pedal assisted vehicles... and while it was written with electric bikes in mind, electric assisted scooters also seem to fit into the legislation. So most governments seem to accept that. Some electric vehicle users have tested the legal implications of using their vehicles without insurance, tax etc... & have found themselves on the right side of the law, even though it is not entirely clear, no one would be able to take an effective case against them (YouTube is your friend on this). I can't say for all, but the only one I have spent any time looking at (Xiaomi M365) is assisted, in that the user needs to physically propel the scooter before it will assist with the electric motor.

People talk about the future being autonomous cars, or electric cars, but alternative transport is much more likely to be the future. The main protagonists against this type of transport seems to be car drivers who fear for the demise of their authority on the roads. Cars are: massively dangerous; huge polluters; a major economic cost to the state; selfish, lazy and anti-social forms of transport and their future is very unclear... They will stay around indefinitely, but their purpose, use case and cost are already being tested in a major way... I say this as a car driver BTW.

As for the claims above that masses of people are flying around at 30 or 40km per hour... That’s just bolloxology. Any scooter from a legitimate source is capped through firmware at 25kmph, there are also limitation on hardware such as battery, motor and inverter combinations (this is done to meet EU legislation). These can sometimes be altered through overclocking & hardware updates. But the idea of doing 40kmph on a short wheelbase, small wheeled, agile steering vehicle is absurd, unless you are doing so non the TopGear runway.

The ****e that comes out of some people is pure entertainment.

Richard Hillman

Any of the regular ones I have seen have a max speed of 25kph. They take up hardly any space on a footpath. If its a busy footpath ok, use common sense but this urge to regulate everything ffs. We are glutons for big government punishment.

andrioolis

Ive got one for my self as a replacement of the car. Its for EU market and capped for 25km/h its more than enough to do my round trip of 8km. Having it i see only positive side. No polution. Can be safely driven on both paths and cycling lane, its fun if it will be taxed or banned - i will use it as a kick scooter and drive it while not on public road/in estate. Its not fare on people who are trying to keep be environmently friendly and still be able to commute. As i use train everyday i can bring it inside and not take as much space as an ordinary bike. I can see only positive side of using it.

D3V!L

andrioolis wrote: »

Ive got one for my self as a replacement of the car. Its for EU market and capped for 25km/h its more than enough to do my round trip of 8km. Having it i see only positive side. No polution. Can be safely driven on both paths and cycling lane, its fun if it will be taxed or banned - i will use it as a kick scooter and drive it while not on public road/in estate. Its not fare on people who are trying to keep be environmently friendly and still be able to commute. As i use train everyday i can bring it inside and not take as much space as an ordinary bike. I can see only positive side of using it.

Except you can't use it on a footpath. "Foot" being the operative word.

antodeco

D3V!L wrote: »

Except you can't use it on a footpath. "Foot" being the operative word.

Better get all those wheelchair users onto the roads so! :pac: And throw in the kids on their Peppa Pig scooters too

prinzeugen

Its been posted elsewhere on boards that these things are MPVs if the motor can propel you without physical effort AT ANY POINT.

Having to give the thing a shove to get it going means nothing. There is nothing in Irish law that makes these yokes legal to use in public areas.

Anyone that says there is a "grey area" are talking bollox. This grey area thing is being pushed by the people that make/sell them to get people to part with their cash.

Electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters are "Invalid carriages" and are exempt.

andrioolis

prinzeugen wrote: »

Its been posted elsewhere on boards that these things are MPVs if the motor can propel you without physical effort AT ANY POINT.

Having to give the thing a shove to get it going means nothing. There is nothing in Irish law that makes these yokes legal to use in public areas.

Anyone that says there is a "grey area" are talking bollox. This grey area thing is being pushed by the people that make/sell them to get people to part with their cash.

Electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters are "Invalid carriages" and are exempt.

that the thing - without using human power I can't start riding. To explain - i have to use foot to move forward to reach the minimum speed before the electric motor can assist me. so it's not classified as MVP. But as usual there are some ar...le who will tell yeah you can't use it as it's dangerous etc. t's not legal... legality is described in the law and it says it has to start moving without assistance. there you need assistance.
I believe it's less dangerous and it's more the exaggeration then reality if you stick to the traffic rules and use it properly on public paths and roads

Skyfloater

Couldn't get over the sheer amount of these in Paris. They have become a mainstream form of transport over there, and the sooner it happens here the better.

prinzeugen

andrioolis wrote: »

that the thing - without using human power I can't start riding. To explain - i have to use foot to move forward to reach the minimum speed before the electric motor can assist me. so it's not classified as MVP. But as usual there are some ar...le who will tell yeah you can't use it as it's dangerous etc. t's not legal... legality is described in the law and it says it has to start moving without assistance. there you need assistance.
I believe it's less dangerous and it's more the exaggeration then reality if you stick to the traffic rules and use it properly on public paths and roads

The Road Traffic Act of 1961 at Section 3(1) (a) and (b), defines a mechanically propelled vehicle as:

“a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including;
(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,

(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;”

If the motor can propel you its a MPV. This law about it being exempt because you have to use your foot to get going DOES NOT EXIST!!

andrioolis

This law is from 1961 - we are living in 21st century everyone is screaming about green energy and electric vechicles, reduce the traffic on roads.. But as usual no one is willing to do anything about it. If you are so smart explain me what is the difference between electric scooter obeying traffic rules and cyclist either on electric or normal bike? i don't see the difference both can do 25km - only cyclist can work harder and reach 30km, while scooter is limited to 25km at the most. Driving on footpath - have you ever try to do it? it's impossible with people walking and faster just to push it then ride.
To conclude - please see this youtube clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnE-tp-pPJ8&t=1s .
I'm not gonna give up my idea of clean green environment and why should i do this?

coastwatch

Looks like this scooter might be really bad for your health

https://www.donedeal.ie/othersports-for-sale/electric-morbidity-scooter/21625885

Capt'n Midnight

andrioolis wrote: »

This law is from 1961 - we are living in 21st century everyone is screaming about green energy and electric vechicles, reduce the traffic on roads.. But as usual no one is willing to do anything about it. If you are so smart explain me what is the difference between electric scooter obeying traffic rules and cyclist either on electric or normal bike? i don't see the difference both can do 25km - only cyclist can work harder and reach 30km, while scooter is limited to 25km at the most. Driving on footpath - have you ever try to do it? it's impossible with people walking and faster just to push it then ride
...
I'm not gonna give up my idea of clean green environment and why should i do this?

You can have an electric scooter.
You just need motor tax, insurance and a proper helmet.

And across the pond Brexit is only happening because the govt is using a loophole created by Henry VIII to override dissent.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/electric-scooter-regulations-ireland-4646594-May2019

It was fun while it lasted. I mean has anyone actually been hurt on these things? Cars are the main problem in cities not these bloody things. I cycle to work and have had zero issues with scooters, in fact they seem to behave far better than cyclists. Will we need tax and insurance to walk around the streets sooner or later? A bloke jogging on Baggot st bumped into me the other day. Should jogging in town be illegal?
This bloody nanny state drives me nuts sometimes.

Ubbquittious

prinzeugen wrote: »

Its been posted elsewhere on boards that these things are MPVs if the motor can propel you without physical effort AT ANY POINT.

Having to give the thing a shove to get it going means nothing. There is nothing in Irish law that makes these yokes legal to use in public areas.

Anyone that says there is a "grey area" are talking bollox. This grey area thing is being pushed by the people that make/sell them to get people to part with their cash.

Electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters are "Invalid carriages" and are exempt.

I have never seen a MPV with pedals in it. Maybe tis an option on the Toyota Previa in some countries?