Buying Land to Prevent Building

s7ryf3925pivug

The field across the road from me is a bit less than 2 acres. It's on sale subject to planning permission. I don't want a house or houses to be built there spoiling the view and reducing privacy. Considering bidding for it to prevent that happening.

Could forgo extending our own house, build a bigger house on the site and move. Maybe sell or maybe rent existibg house at that point. But we'd probably need to make interim rennovations to own house anyway, mqinly installing a second toilet. This would be a different direction to our previous plan which is to pay off mortgage fully and redirect yhe repayments to a pension. If you rent out a property with a mortgage on it, do you pay the higher rate of income tax on the full amount of rent received (assuming you're above the threshold already) - or how does that work?

More inclined towards buying the field and not developing it yet, with a view to providing sites to our kid/kids when they're old enough. In that case we'd need to maintain it and preferably monetise it in some way. What sort of money could come back throygh grants etc if we converted an acre of it to forest? What sort of outlay and maintenance would be involved? Most likely natural woodland.

Grazing animals might also be an idea, goats or alpaca or both. Is that a workable idea?

Renting to a farmer would be interesting but doubt it's an option, though there are neighboiring farms, not much on daft for field rentals though.

davindub

Aaron Tasteless Minion wrote: »

The field across the road from me is a bit less than 2 acres. It's on sale subject to planning permission. I don't want a house or houses to be built there spoiling the view and reducing privacy. Considering bidding for it to prevent that happening.

Could forgo extending our own house, build a bigger house on the site and move. Maybe sell or maybe rent existibg house at that point. But we'd probably need to make interim rennovations to own house anyway, mqinly installing a second toilet. This would be a different direction to our previous plan which is to pay off mortgage fully and redirect yhe repayments to a pension. If you rent out a property with a mortgage on it, do you pay the higher rate of income tax on the full amount of rent received (assuming you're above the threshold already) - or how does that work?

More inclined towards buying the field and not developing it yet, with a view to providing sites to our kid/kids when they're old enough. In that case we'd need to maintain it and preferably monetise it in some way. What sort of money could come back throygh grants etc if we converted an acre of it to forest? What sort of outlay and maintenance would be involved? Most likely natural woodland.

Grazing animals might also be an idea, goats or alpaca or both. Is that a workable idea?

Renting to a farmer would be interesting but doubt it's an option, though there are neighboiring farms, not much on daft for field rentals though.

If its good land, contact the local farms, they will probably more than likely want it. Some good tax reliefs as well.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/leasing-farm-land/index.aspx

wildwillow

Seems strange that you would consider a house on the land as long as it's yours. Think long and hard about getting into debt for years on a whim.

Building a bigger house and renting your own is also a huge commitment and not necessarily paying for itself. The mortgage and costs are deducted before tax is paid but you will find there is little left at the end of the year. Many landlords are getting out of the business and the present house shortage won't last.

Buying and keeping it for the future probably makes the most sense, but again not much money to be made. A farmer will only pay buttons for that amount of land and forestry is a long term investment.


Trees can be as big a problem as another house in terms of view. You would just about cover your cost of insuring the plot with those investments.
Something more intensive like market gardening or flowers and foliage would pay but is a lot of work.

Alpacas have a very high set up cost and really make little income. Shearing them is expensive and the only real market is to find someone else to buy the cria. Some money to be made from sale of their fleece. I speak as the owner of two alpacas who I use to graze an unused portion of my large country garden.

Goats need very good fencing but could be sold for meat, milk or even cheese. Again labour intensive.
You must still be fairly young if you are thinking of plots for children. Think of all the things you could spend the money on during their childhood and education.

If it is sold for a site you can keep an eye on the planning and object to factors which you feel infinge on your privacy.
I'm presuming the area ia fairly rural. Maybe a new family would add to the community and you may find you have a new friendly neighbour.

I have pointed out the negatives. No doubt you have many positives about buying the plot.

You know yourself how much you value privacy and view, so weigh it up and make the right decision for your family, but don't see the purchase as an investment.
If you do bid, set a definite limit and stick to it.
Good luck, whatever you decide.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Incredibly selfish. You don't want a house there as it will spoil your view, but you think it's perfectly ok to build an even BIGGER house on the same spot? Just wow...

s7ryf3925pivug

Not selfish at all. We'd sell our current house after building there, if that's what we do. Maybe it would affect the price, maybe it wouldn't - either way it would be our own property being effected.

Not looking at it as an investment no. Looking to mitigate cost and upkeep if we were to buy it not intending to move.

Privacy and view are quite important to us, yes.

Incidentally the thread title was changed by a mod. It originally said 'The field'. I get why they wanted something more descriptive but perhaps the new title has changed the tone of this.

Mike9832

If your buying for cash why not
Your money

Graham

Mod

You're welcome to suggest an alternative (meaningful) title.

looksee

Just because someone else says it is a site doesn't mean you will get planning permission. Even 'subject to' could be a bit of arm chancing.

Getting permission for one house is not the same as getting permission for multiple (kids) houses, and the rules could change again before they are old enough to be interested.

Just applying for pp (bearing in mind surveys, septic tank survey, architect's and engineers fees and all the other stuff that mysteriously surfaces) will be an expensive proposition which you could lose money on if permission is not granted. Especially if the vendor decides to start leaning on you to buy before the whole pp process is finished.

And in the end you are going to end up facing another house whatever you do in terms of building.

antoinolachtnai

How will you finance this? The bank will not finance development land which you do not intend to develop.

I think you would be better to invest five or ten thousand euros in getting a planning consultant to object to the development.

s7ryf3925pivug

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

How will you finance this? The bank will not finance development land which you do not intend to develop.

I think you would be better to invest five or ten thousand euros in getting a planning consultant to object to the development.

Cash. But I would not be able to buy field, fully pay off my existing mortgage *and* build an extension, at least not unless I got the field for significantly below asking... I might make such an offer in cash without the provisio of planning permission being granted though.

Could I plant a lot of native woodland and receive the grants for same without needing significant maintenance afterwards, if I'm just growing it as a nice wood, not a monetised forestry?

s7ryf3925pivug

Graham wrote: »

Mod

You're welcome to suggest an alternative (meaningful) title.

Thanks but no, haters going to hate anyway. Constructive replies discussing what could be done with the field are what I'm most interested in, moreso than focusing on blocking development there.

Dunno where they got the "even bigger" bit from. My house isn't big, and if we did build, we wouldn't go for something huge. ..Projecting some image onto me or something.

antoinolachtnai

Aaron Tasteless Minion wrote: »

Cash. But I would not be able to buy field, fully pay off my existing mortgage *and* build an extension, at least not unless I got the field for significantly below asking... I might make such an offer in cash without the provisio of planning permission being granted though.

Could I plant a lot of native woodland and receive the grants for same without needing significant maintenance afterwards, if I'm just growing it as a nice wood, not a monetised forestry?

If this land is zoned for residential it is unlikely to sell cheap. The owner has held the land for this long. He will most likely hold out for his price. It is unlikely he is in a hurry. (Buy if it is an executor’s sale or a bank sale it is possible.)

You could offer to rent the land for 10 years with an option to buy at the end, if this is really important to you.

I can’t see how you would get a grant for planting like that. If this is residential zoned land it just isn’t going to be financially viable.

s7ryf3925pivug

Not sure it is zoned for residential tbh. I know permission was denied on the other side of our house because it was outside the settlement boundary of the village, and because of concerns about drainage, especially in the context of there already being lots of septic tankas in the area

looksee

Well then you can pretty much forget it then. The settlement thing is a no-no.

If you really want to buy it then do so and put an orchard in, but you are making a lot of work for yourself. Look at it like this, if there is no chance of you getting planning (and with what you just said, there isn't) then no one else will either.

One thing you could do is have a pre-planning meeting, but you will have to go some way along the road of making an offer etc to do it as you have to have permission from the owner. I think on balance you can forget it.

Mooooo

It's 2 acres, the most you may get in rent off a farmer may be 400 a year doing well. If you want to plant trees you may need planning and that may not be guaranteed. Average agricultural price is 10k an acre, if owner is selling subject to planning he is likely looking for a good bit more than that.

s7ryf3925pivug

Yeah I checked and it's well outside the village settlement boundary. Drainage is listed as a known issue in the area. Also they don't want to expand boundary or even build much within it until infrastructure catches up with recent rapid expansion anyway. Strong focus on maintaining green spaces as well.

Sounds like they're really chancing their arm... looking for more than four times avg agricultural price. I'd happily pay the avg agri price just to use it for recreational purposes tbh, if I was happy the effort/cost of maintaining it would be manageable.

gctest50

Buy it if you can as a field ( for reasonable money !), there is no guarantee you'd get pp in the future
- it would make your own place much more valuable

Who2

Aaron Tasteless Minion wrote: »

Yeah I checked and it's well outside the village settlement boundary. Drainage is listed as a known issue in the area. Also they don't want to expand boundary or even build much within it until infrastructure catches up with recent rapid expansion anyway. Strong focus on maintaining green spaces as well.

Sounds like they're really chancing their arm... looking for more than four times avg agricultural price. I'd happily pay the avg agri price just to use it for recreational purposes tbh, if I was happy the effort/cost of maintaining it would be manageable.

So 40k for 2 acres near a village or town. It’s your call but it will get built on by someone at some stage regardless of current policy. If you have the interest buy it.

s7ryf3925pivug

Who2 wrote: »

So 40k for 2 acres near a village or town. It’s your call but it will get built on by someone at some stage regardless of current policy. If you have the interest buy it.

They're asking for more than 40k an acre. Might put a cash offer in closer to what you quoted though, without pp being a requirement.

tabby aspreme

You will not get planning in a rural area, if you already have a house in the area. If you get grants for planting trees, the land will have to grow trees indefinitely, or the grants will have to be repaid

s7ryf3925pivug

tabby aspreme wrote: »

You will not get planning in a rural area, if you already have a house in the area. If you get grants for planting trees, the land will have to grow trees indefinitely, or the grants will have to be repaid

Is the point about planning true even if it is built with the intention of living in it long-term afterwards - possibly selling the currently owned house?

looksee

Its a bit more complicated than that but the answer is pretty much yes. It doesn't matter whether you propose to live in it or not. The aim is to keep development in hubs - villages. If a collection of houses is created there comes a stage when it is necessary for the county council to give it things like street lights and water and consider other facilities. There is also the point that there is a limit to how many septic tanks you can have in an area - especially if drainage is poor.

To avoid that housing is being restricted to residential zones. If you want to build in a non-residential zone where there is already a house you have to demolish (or develop, or re-purpose - ie make non-habitable) the previous house so that the number of residences is not increasing.

Gumbo

Aaron Tasteless Minion wrote: »

Is the point about planning true even if it is built with the intention of living in it long-term afterwards - possibly selling the currently owned house?

Local needs criteria means you need to have a need for housing in the area. Each LA is different to the specific details with regards to previous housing in that area.

You would need t check it on the zoning map then check it with the planning department.