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Only 600 out of 66,700 new jobs created in the South East Region last year!

13

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  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ JimWinters


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Its all nibbling around the edges junk though. The kind of stuff Dublin and Cork dont mind letting us have to pacify us for a while. Here have a road, few buildings, few quid for the community centre, grand lads. Not anything important though, University? Tell ye what ye can call yerselves a mickey mouse (technological) university if ye jump through hoops for us, see where that gets ya.

    Playing the game has been tried. Topple the table. Fcuk the game.

    What do we get if we topple the table? Perhaps they might throw us a bone in 4/5 years to try sway votes in a future election, is that the plan?

    What have we ever gotten from voting for independents?

    What we need is strong candidates and effective representation in government. Something we’ve not had in 10 years, some would argue Martin Cullen was our most effective TD in the last 50 years! Dublin, Cork, other cities and even neighbouring counties have supported big party candidates consistently. These counties reap the rewards while we topple the table and say they’re all out to get us...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭ engiweirdo


    JimWinters wrote: »
    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Its all nibbling around the edges junk though. The kind of stuff Dublin and Cork dont mind letting us have to pacify us for a while. Here have a road, few buildings, few quid for the community centre, grand lads. Not anything important though, University? Tell ye what ye can call yerselves a mickey mouse (technological) university if ye jump through hoops for us, see where that gets ya.

    Playing the game has been tried. Topple the table. Fcuk the game.

    What do we get if we topple the table? Perhaps they might throw us a bone in 4/5 years to try sway votes in a future election, is that the plan?

    What have we ever gotten from voting for independents?

    What we need is strong candidates and effective representation in government. Something we’ve not had in 10 years, some would argue Martin Cullen was our most effective TD in the last 50 years! Dublin, Cork, other cities and even neighbouring counties have supported big party candidates consistently. These counties reap the rewards while we topple the table and say they’re all out to get us...
    When have we ever sent a real message and gave FFG ZERO seats? What need do they have to pay attention to us at all. FF are dead on their feet in the cities and fast becoming the party of grey, rural catholics. FG are now more than ever the party of the urban elite and aspirational hangers on/wannabes.

    Neither has ever shown any great interest in providing anything of real worth to this city, yet they deserve blind support in the hope that this time it will be different, if we just show them how much we love them they can change. Hell why not elect 4 FG cronies just to be safe. They won't be able to forget us then, right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    (four TDs' from one party would actually make the most sense if they could be trusted to act together)

    The idea of a coherent effective group of Deise Independence TD's is hilarious - they'll be at each others throats in no time and what would it actually deliver terms of Dail maths? I suspect the biggest party after an election would simply strike an agreement with the main opposition to continue the supply and demand approach - in fact I think that will be the default mechanism from here on short of a single party majority being achieved (most unlikely to ever happen again)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    When have we ever sent a real message and gave FFG ZERO seats? What need do they have to pay attention to us at all. FF are dead on their feet in the cities and fast becoming the party of grey, rural catholics. FG are now more than ever the party of the urban elite and aspirational hangers on/wannabes.

    Neither has ever shown any great interest in providing anything of real worth to this city, yet they deserve blind support in the hope that this time it will be different, if we just show them how much we love them they can change. Hell why not elect 4 FG cronies just to be safe. They won't be able to forget us then, right?

    Problem is, if we sent them a message with zero seats and they still got into government then we would have no representation for four years.

    Wouldn't be a good place to be...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭ Bards


    Deiseen wrote: »
    engiweirdo wrote: »
    When have we ever sent a real message and gave FFG ZERO seats? What need do they have to pay attention to us at all. FF are dead on their feet in the cities and fast becoming the party of grey, rural catholics. FG are now more than ever the party of the urban elite and aspirational hangers on/wannabes.

    Neither has ever shown any great interest in providing anything of real worth to this city, yet they deserve blind support in the hope that this time it will be different, if we just show them how much we love them they can change. Hell why not elect 4 FG cronies just to be safe. They won't be able to forget us then, right?

    Problem is, if we sent them a message with zero seats and they still got into government then we would have no representation for four years.

    Wouldn't be a good place to be...
    Totally agree... And they could make an example for us for any other constituency even thinking of doing the same thing.
    . I don't think we would be rewarded at all


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭ engiweirdo


    Bards wrote: »
    Deiseen wrote: »
    engiweirdo wrote: »
    When have we ever sent a real message and gave FFG ZERO seats? What need do they have to pay attention to us at all. FF are dead on their feet in the cities and fast becoming the party of grey, rural catholics. FG are now more than ever the party of the urban elite and aspirational hangers on/wannabes.

    Neither has ever shown any great interest in providing anything of real worth to this city, yet they deserve blind support in the hope that this time it will be different, if we just show them how much we love them they can change. Hell why not elect 4 FG cronies just to be safe. They won't be able to forget us then, right?

    Problem is, if we sent them a message with zero seats and they still got into government then we would have no representation for four years.

    Wouldn't be a good place to be...
    Totally agree... And they could make an example for us for any other constituency even thinking of doing the same thing.
    . I don't think we would be rewarded at all

    We won't be rewarded for it. We wouldn't be rewarded for returning 4 of them either. Or for electing the usual cohort of one or two of each.

    So why give them the freebie? Fear? Isnt the definition of madness to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results?


  • Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭ kayaksurfbum


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Playing the game has been tried. Topple the table. Fcuk the game.

    Thats how Brexit and Trump happened. Dont be one of those "this film is sh1t lets slash the seats" people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    Thats how Brexit and Trump happened. Dont be one of those "this film is sh1t lets slash the seats" people.

    Totally agree, the everything is rubbish people feed into that narrative too, we/Ireland/Waterford have already voted in table bangers who offer simple solutions to complex problems, it doesn't work out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Totally agree, the everything is rubbish people feed into that narrative too, we/Ireland/Waterford have already voted in table bangers who offer simple solutions to complex problems, it doesn't work out.

    People criticise Halligan beyond belief but take Halligan out of the equation and who would be fighting our corner? Deasy? Butler?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    I think people don't really understand how decisions happen and expect too much from their representatives.

    Bar a few situations in the 90s and 00s when the likes of the Healy Rae's and Lowry got deals to help form FF Governments, the type of stuff some people seem to think independents can achieve isn't possible.

    Most decisions are informed by evidence. Political parties will set a general direction for things to follow, but Ministers follow recommendations from civil servants and their advisors, which are informed by evidence, not 'Jesus we better look after the Waterford lads, they might vote for some independent next time'.

    Waterford have voted in an independent who is a current Minister for State. How's that going? Don't expect anyone to ride up on a white horse to Dublin and be the saviour.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,391 ✭✭✭ Wanderer2010


    Deiseen wrote: »
    People criticise Halligan beyond belief but take Halligan out of the equation and who would be fighting our corner? Deasy? Butler?

    But hes not fighting our corner at all! He has absolutely no power and ultimately has to bend to the main party of the day. His naivety was obvious with his silly comments about guaranteeing 24/7 and raining down hell on government when he was offered a big fat pension and probably more cash to just shut up and pretend he cares about Waterford. He now lives in the backside of Varadkar. Having Halligan is the same as Deasy and Butler because he cant do a thing. Coffey is our only hope in the future and hes another chancer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    But hes not fighting our corner at all! He has absolutely no power and ultimately has to bend to the main party of the day. His naivety was obvious with his silly comments about guaranteeing 24/7 and raining down hell on government when he was offered a big fat pension and probably more cash to just shut up and pretend he cares about Waterford. He now lives in the backside of Varadkar. Having Halligan is the same as Deasy and Butler because he cant do a thing. Coffey is our only hope in the future and hes another chancer.

    Take Halligan out of the equation and how much noise would you hear about Waterford?

    I rate Paudie too but you cannot deny that Halligan is at least reminding people of our issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Deiseen wrote: »
    Take Halligan out of the equation and how much noise would you hear about Waterford?

    I rate Paudie too but you cannot deny that Halligan is at least reminding people of our issues.

    Halligan is out of his depth on a number of levels. I think he realises that now too.

    I understand that he was a good local councillor and advocate of the poor in certain parts of Waterford city. Maybe he should go back to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭ JimWinters


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I think people don't really understand how decisions happen and expect too much from their representatives.

    All very true Hardybuck. A lot of people also don’t understand how reps in parties have to follow the party whip and tow the party line. New TDs don’t get a whole lot of say in their first few years either...


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 John P. Mac


    TDs cannot make industry locate to Waterford or other location. The reason most jobs go to Dublin and Cork is that these are where industries prefer to locate. Executives of these companies (or more accurately their wives) are not prepared to locate / live in what they consider Mickey Mouse towns.

    Same problem getting good medical consultants to locate to small remote hospitals. This includes most of our acute hospital network

    TD try to be first with the news of new investment even when they have had no role whatsoever in the decision. A good Chamber of Commerce is more successful in attracting investment.

    Finally, has Waterford shaken off its image of obstructive trade union membership ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    TDs cannot make industry locate to Waterford or other location. The reason most jobs go to Dublin and Cork is that these are where industries prefer to locate. Executives of these companies (or more accurately their wives) are not prepared to locate / live in what they consider Mickey Mouse towns.

    Same problem getting good medical consultants to locate to small remote hospitals. This includes most of our acute hospital network

    TD try to be first with the news of new investment even when they have had no role whatsoever in the decision. A good Chamber of Commerce is more successful in attracting investment.

    Finally, has Waterford shaken off its image of obstructive trade union membership ?

    its interesting that production has dramatically increased across many sectors, but wage inflation has remained low, or even stagnant in some cases, since the demise of the union movement, isnt it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    TDs cannot make industry locate to Waterford or other location. The reason most jobs go to Dublin and Cork is that these are where industries prefer to locate. Executives of these companies (or more accurately their wives) are not prepared to locate / live in what they consider Mickey Mouse towns.

    Ah yes that explains everything :rolleyes: Companies locate, people follow. The wife has no say in these strategic matters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    its interesting that production has dramatically increased across many sectors, but wage inflation has remained low, or even stagnant in some cases, since the demise of the union movement, isnt it?

    It's like recently when some bus routes nationally went to tender.

    In some parts of Dublin a new company won some of the Dublin bus routes. They pay their drivers a good bit less than Dublin Bus, who are barely staying afloat even with state subsidies due to their inefficiencies and high wage rates.

    The new company run a more frequent service on newer buses. The unions first said that they wouldn't be able to attract drivers on the wages being offered. When they were way oversubscribed with applications the unions next argument was that it was a race to the bottom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    For my few cents worth, The south east should really have no problem attracting industry and investment, but has been dogged by county separatism. Waterford city is 1.5 hours from the M50. UHW or formerly WRH never had any problem attracting hospital consultants and has approx 125 of same as I understand from the HEFSE [age on FB. The Mater hospital has the same problem nowadays in attracting consultants, ie pay scale. Lest anyone have any notion that UHW is some mickey mouse hospital, that is simply not the case. It is one of the largest and busiest hospitals in the country. Waterford has attracted a fair range of multinationals but IDA policy is geared towards creating nodes and the south east does not have same. It is counter intuitive to suggest that government minister s do not have some say in company location, especially if an out of Dublin location is being considered. The only people who mention industrial relations in Waterford are those who want to drag up an issue which is long past its sell by date and very strange that the FT has in recent years constantly selected Waterford as one of the best E
    uropean micro cities for FDI without ever referencing industrial relations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Ah yes that explains everything :rolleyes: Companies locate, people follow. The wife has no say in these strategic matters.

    A guy just moved in next door to me from America. Senior banking executive, probably on €250-300k per year.

    One of the key reasons his family chose to locate in Dublin was to have an opportunity to live in a European capital with his family, and to have the opportunity to travel to around Europe.

    He's barely at home with the hours he works, so if his wife and children don't settle or enjoy Dublin he's packing his bags.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    So what? The company will stay as long as the tax rate and other matters of the marketplace suits them, they can always hire someone else and they will if your above example moves on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    So what? The company will stay as long as the tax rate and other matters of the marketplace suits them, they can always hire someone else and they will if your above example moves on.

    Company will locate as long as the marketplace suits them, and as long as they can attract talent.

    That's now beginning to be an issue within some industries because of the shortage of suitable property. That guy I mentioned will be paying, or his employer probably will rather, over 4k a month in rent. Some companies are actually paying that a week for short term lets.

    However companies such as Google are just building their own accommodation now, e.g. the Bolands Mills development which they just bought outright to house their workers.

    Facebook have their own villages in San Francisco and they'll probably start doing the same here soon as they're planning to take on an extra 2,000 staff in Ballsbridge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭ engiweirdo


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I think people don't really understand how decisions happen and expect too much from their representatives.

    Bar a few situations in the 90s and 00s when the likes of the Healy Rae's and Lowry got deals to help form FF Governments, the type of stuff some people seem to think independents can achieve isn't possible.

    Most decisions are informed by evidence. Political parties will set a general direction for things to follow, but Ministers follow recommendations from civil servants and their advisors, which are informed by evidence, not 'Jesus we better look after the Waterford lads, they might vote for some independent next time'.

    Waterford have voted in an independent who is a current Minister for State. How's that going? Don't expect anyone to ride up on a white horse to Dublin and be the saviour.
    I think this while a very high minded and noble idea of how government works, is naive in the extreme. It's pork barrel all the way with our spud headed- cabbage eared buffoons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    I think this while a very high minded and noble idea of how government works, is naive in the extreme. It's pork barrel all the way with our spud headed- cabbage eared buffoons.

    And you have experience of this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭ engiweirdo


    hardybuck wrote: »
    engiweirdo wrote: »
    I think this while a very high minded and noble idea of how government works, is naive in the extreme. It's pork barrel all the way with our spud headed- cabbage eared buffoons.

    And you have experience of this?
    Yep. In Ireland a pretty decent survival skill you learn is the ability to subvert government services by leaning on some class of "public servant" to grease the wheels. It shouldnt work like this but we all know it does.

    So you dont think this extends to the upper echelons of government? The type of politician prevalent here would suggest otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Yep. In Ireland a pretty decent survival skill you learn is the ability to subvert government services by leaning on some class of "public servant" to grease the wheels. It shouldnt work like this but we all know it does.

    So you dont think this extends to the upper echelons of government? The type of politician prevalent here would suggest otherwise.

    You're a junior civil servant based in Waterford?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭ engiweirdo


    hardybuck wrote: »
    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Yep. In Ireland a pretty decent survival skill you learn is the ability to subvert government services by leaning on some class of "public servant" to grease the wheels. It shouldnt work like this but we all know it does.

    So you dont think this extends to the upper echelons of government? The type of politician prevalent here would suggest otherwise.

    You're a junior civil servant based in Waterford?
    ?? Erm no.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    ?? Erm no.

    I thought you were based on some of the other junior Civil Service positions you were interested in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 593 ✭✭✭ engiweirdo


    hardybuck wrote: »
    engiweirdo wrote: »
    ?? Erm no.

    I thought you were based on some of the other junior Civil Service positions you were interested in.
    Nah they're Graduate positions. Now I'm guessing like yourself, I don't agree with or like the way things like that get done. And ideally I'd prefer if it was like you suggested. But it's a lot easier if you obtain a "helping hand" or at least a listening ear in this country.

    Do we have any politicians locally with integrity? That wouldnt entertain approaches to have a favour done and just do their job in the best interest of their constituents as a whole?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    engiweirdo wrote: »
    Nah they're Graduate positions. Now I'm guessing like yourself, I don't agree with or like the way things like that get done. And ideally I'd prefer if it was like you suggested. But it's a lot easier if you obtain a "helping hand" or at least a listening ear in this country.

    Do we have any politicians locally with integrity? That wouldnt entertain approaches to have a favour done and just do their job in the best interest of their constituents as a whole?

    This year the independent alliance wanted a couple of bonkers things in the lead up to the budget and were told to feck off, which was great to see. Similarly, a number of cabinet Ministers wanted things for their briefs but were also told no.

    Ireland has one of the least politicised Civil Services and Public Services in the world, and in the last 5-6 years in particular the level of skills that they've built in relation to economic analysis has massively cranked up, which makes stroke politics harder to get away with. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the stuff that went on before is more difficult to do now.

    I must go back to something I mentioned earlier which wasn't really picked up on - 90% of the jobs raised were in the service industry. Dublin and it's commuter belt took the lion's share, which is unsurprising given the tech and financial boom currently in progress.

    Waterford's, and the South East
    's service industry has traditionally been weak. The border region actually went into reverse.


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