25% social housing in new builds proposed.

Wheeliebin30

https://www.thejournal.ie/social-housing-bill-4350916-Nov2018/

Ah the shinners ay.


The Sinn Féin Bill seeks an increase in the provision of social and affordable housing to 25% in private residential developments and to 30% in strategic development zones.

Kermit.de.frog

The would-be occupiers are a substantial part of their voter base so hardly a surprise. They are sticking up for their constituents. Nothing wrong with that.

However, this would only damage housing delivery because developers simply could not afford to do that.

Also I can imagine many middle + income earners not being impressed with having the aspiration and ability to afford a nice place to live - taking on the mortgage, raising their family and all that entails - only to see people who earn nothing getting possibly the exact same housing and location as them and paying - €30 per week? (if at all).

I have said it before, and I will say it again - the only section of this society being mistreated are those in the middle - not at the bottom or the top.

hatrickpatrick

Once again, this is simply buck-passing by politicians. Building social housing is the government's responsibility, local or national, nd they should be doing this by directly hiring construction companies and architects to build on the vast swathes of derelict land already owned by the state. Asking the private sector to fulfill this role for them is a hilarious example of neoliberalism's most moronic paradoxes. The state did this directly with no middleman involved and with architects directly employed by local councils until neoliberalism took over at the end of the 1980s. There is absolutely no reason why it cannot revert to this practise.

SEPT 23 1989

The old way was that there was enough council houses built so that you have a roof over your head

Then you grew up earned a few bob and looked at the better areas and said to yourself

Yeah I will have a.bit of that for my kids

System is completely fcuked

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's another example of SF proposing something that they didn't, or couldn't, do the maths on, will never have to deliver themselves, and appeals to their supporters.

Working class heroes

25% is a bit much.
Should be about 1 in 4, at a push.

tabby aspreme

SF councillor in kildare , Mark Lynch has asked KCC to find a way to publish names of persistent anti social tenants, is this a new SF policy

DellyBelly

Working class heroes wrote: »

25% is a bit much.
Should be about 1 in 4, at a push.

1 in 4 is 25%!

Sky King

DellyBelly wrote: »

1 in 4 is 25%!

ðŸ˜

CinemaGuy45

DellyBelly wrote: »

1 in 4 is 25%!

slavetothegrind

find a way to imprison them so they suffer not everyone else. It's easy to be liberal having not experienced this.

The percentage social housing thing is dumping responsibility and far from integration it breeds contempt and isolation as everybody in that development knows who pays rent and who pays mortgage.

Idiots sold off the social housing years ago,

we don't have planners, just untouchable un-sackable unaccountable civil servants .

Another stupid ill-thought-out proposal from the party which is the largest political party on Dublin City Council and thus presiding over this disaster year after year (including reducing the size of apartments in the city to help developers make more profit). Just put loads of people from the same socio-economic/motivationally challenged section of society in the one area. How myopic and ignorant is that. Ballymun?

10% is enough, but build/renovate a sufficient number of houses so that the genuinely homeless can get a home somewhere in Ireland. Spread the risk, and thus protect everybody else.

Also, end this nonsense of people in Dublin thinking they've a right to a state-supplied home in this expensive area when far more homes can be supplied for the same cost beyond the Pale. What a waste of taxpayers' money.

Moonjet

What is the current rate, 10%?
A lad I work with paid 500k for a new build 4 bed semi in well to do part of Dublin last year and the house next door is social housing. Nice family, 2 parents and I think 3 children but the parents have never worked a day in their lives - 2016 car in the drive and the luxury of a 500k house. Also heading on their 4th holiday of the year for Christmas. Like has been said, there's nobody getting screwed at the top or bottom rungs of Irish society. I don't begrudge the people themselves, I would do the same in their position. It's the system that's broken.

Gatling

Have they come up with a suggestion how they plan to recover the 50milllion plus in unpaid or over due social housing rents at all while demanding evictions being banned for rentals

riffmongous

Moonjet wrote: »

What is the current rate, 10%?
A lad I work with paid 500k for a new build 4 bed semi in well to do part of Dublin last year and the house next door is social housing. Nice family, 2 parents and I think 3 children but the parents have never worked a day in their lives - 2016 car in the drive and the luxury of a 500k house. Also heading on their 4th holiday of the year for Christmas. Like has been said, there's nobody getting screwed at the top or bottom rungs of Irish society. I don't begrudge the people themselves, I would do the same in their position. It's the system that's broken.

And you believe your colleague?

Dick phelan

Housing is not a human right. There are issues with housing no question, we need to increase supply and make it more affordable for people in the middle. Go out and earn you own house like most do.

Dick phelan

I think we also need to move toward a system of long term renting, meaning you can rent a place for say decade or more ect. In many countries it's not all that common for people to actually buy a house, Ireland seems to have a fixation on buying your own house i personally would have no problem renting if their was long term residency available.

Bob Harris

DellyBelly wrote: »

1 in 4 is 25%!

Working class heroes

Whoooooooosssssshhhhhh!!!

lawred2

Moonjet wrote: »

What is the current rate, 10%?
A lad I work with paid 500k for a new build 4 bed semi in well to do part of Dublin last year and the house next door is social housing. Nice family, 2 parents and I think 3 children but the parents have never worked a day in their lives - 2016 car in the drive and the luxury of a 500k house. Also heading on their 4th holiday of the year for Christmas. Like has been said, there's nobody getting screwed at the top or bottom rungs of Irish society. I don't begrudge the people themselves, I would do the same in their position. It's the system that's broken.

4th holiday?

Yerra

Bob Harris

Moonjet wrote: »

What is the current rate, 10%?
A lad I work with paid 500k for a new build 4 bed semi in well to do part of Dublin last year and the house next door is social housing. Nice family, 2 parents and I think 3 children but the parents have never worked a day in their lives - 2016 car in the drive and the luxury of a 500k house. Also heading on their 4th holiday of the year for Christmas. Like has been said, there's nobody getting screwed at the top or bottom rungs of Irish society. I don't begrudge the people themselves, I would do the same in their position. It's the system that's broken.

riffmongous wrote: »

And you believe your colleague?

Even if half of it is true it's a 2 bed quarter in an alright part of Dublin, an ok family, 1 parent, 1.5 children, a 1008 car and a 250k house. Off on their second holiday of the year for Christmas.

engiweirdo

More fiddling while Rome burns. FG are sadistic neoliberals at heart but sure look those colours are long nailed to the mast, you know what you're getting voting for them.

SF are absolute populist idiots. Havent a clue what they're even proposing. Social housing needs to be delivered directly by the state to be viable and worthwhile and on the scale required. The market didnt create the problem, refusing to control the market did, similarly it will not and can not solve it without drastic intervention.

andekwarhola

Bob Harris wrote: »

Even if half of it is true it's a 2 bed quarter in an alright part of Dublin, an ok family, 1 parent, 1.5 children, a 1008 car and a 250k house. Off on their second holiday of the year for Christmas.

Now that's a vintage car.

Bob Harris

andekwarhola wrote: »

Now that's a vintage car.

Collectors item! Dem bastard spongers have it all!

engiweirdo

andekwarhola wrote: »

Bob Harris wrote: »

Even if half of it is true it's a 2 bed quarter in an alright part of Dublin, an ok family, 1 parent, 1.5 children, a 1008 car and a 250k house. Off on their second holiday of the year for Christmas.

Now that's a vintage car.

Or a very specific one. I would behoping a new Peugot 1008 wouldnt be the standard mode of transport for SW recipients....

andekwarhola

I agree with integrated housing but 10% is a sensible percentage and even if enforced, it shouldn't be an excuse for councils to opt out of smaller scale local authority builds.

The elephant in the room is that this type of integration was supposed to be policy before but developers were allowed to opt out and the councils stopped building social units, leading us in no small way to the sorry mess we are now in.

Bob Harris

engiweirdo wrote: »

Or a very specific one. I would behoping a new Peugot 1008 wouldnt be the standard mode of transport for SW recipients....

Minimum requirement for dropping the kids off before meeting the girls for coffee and sticky buns.

Deebles McBeebles

Dick phelan wrote: »

I think we also need to move toward a system of long term renting, meaning you can rent a place for say decade or more ect. In many countries it's not all that common for people to actually buy a house, Ireland seems to have a fixation on buying your own house i personally would have no problem renting if their was long term residency available.

What happens when you retire? Or you lose your job and can't pay the rent?

I see this argument a lot about how its different abroad. So what? As someone who has been renting for the last decade or more, its a load of sh*t with no safety net, it costs the earth and I might as well be pouring petrol on my money and burning it every month.

JMNolan

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

What happens when you retire? Or you lose your job and can't pay the rent?

This is actually something I'd be interested in knowing. In Ireland if I buy a house and pay off my mortgage I own the house. After I finish paying the mortgage and I get sick or whatever I don't have to worry about being booted out of my house. What happens in countries where they don't have a culture of owning? Let's say I was renting for 30 years and I could no longer pay?

padd b1975

Gatling wrote: »

Have they come up with a suggestion how they plan to recover the 50milllion plus in unpaid or over due social housing rents at all while demanding evictions being banned for rentals

Add another €20,000,000 to that and you're in the right ballpark.

engiweirdo

engiweirdo wrote: »

More fiddling while Rome burns. FG are sadistic neoliberals at heart but sure look those colours are long nailed to the mast, you know what you're getting voting for them.

SF are absolute populist idiots. Havent a clue what they're even proposing. Social housing needs to be delivered directly by the state to be viable and worthwhile and on the scale required. The market didnt create the problem, refusing to control the market did, similarly it will not and can not solve it without drastic intervention.

Excellent and very fair post.

topper75

Would it work if 3 buyers got to make the decision on who off the list got to live beside them?

So an estate gets built with 100 houses. The 75 houses are sold and those people get to vote on prospective candidates from a housing list and choose whatever 25 they like after a period of research on backgrounds.

I wouldn't mind living alongside people less well off then. But I don't to live alongside 'anti-social' types. Not certainly when I am paying 1000 plus to a bank every month for the privilege.

We can't take people for mugs.

Berserker

Have to say that this is class A1 politicking by the Spinners. Shame they are not in a position, on a city council for example, to do something about it.

topper75 wrote: »

Would it work if 3 buyers got to make the decision on who off the list got to live beside them?

So an estate gets built with 100 houses. The 75 houses are sold and those people get to vote on prospective candidates from a housing list and choose whatever 25 they like after a period of research on backgrounds.

I wouldn't mind living alongside people less well off then. But I don't to live alongside 'anti-social' types. Not certainly when I am paying 1000 plus to a bank every month for the privilege.

We can't take people for mugs.

Not going to work. The most vulnerable members of society #MostVulnerable would always get overlooked by the greedy elite homeowners. Also, can you define what "less well off" means? Most of the people who have purchased the 75 houses are probably in debt up to their eyeballs.

twinytwo

All this boils down to getting rewarded for not working. If it was more beneficial to work......

klaaaz

Should be 50% social housing to end segregation between the classes. The present system has resulted in separate rich areas and poor areas in the cities and towns which is class apartheid.

lawred2

klaaaz wrote: »

Should be 50% social housing to end segregation between the classes. The present system has resulted in separate rich areas and poor areas in the cities and towns which is class apartheid.

:rolleyes:

imagine rich people and poor people living on different streets

sure isn't that's so uniquely Irish

engiweirdo

klaaaz wrote: »

Should be 50% social housing to end segregation between the classes. The present system has resulted in separate rich areas and poor areas in the cities and towns which is class apartheid.

To be fair people do have pretty good reasons for it. Currently (luckily) living in council area and tbh you just end up surrounded by a good proportion of people who if you ambitions even for a middle class life, you will have very little in common with. A lot you wouldnt associate with in a fit.

Have pretty much always had issues with neighbours too: Party on a Sunday/Monday night? -no bother, not like you've to be up, Loud conversations in the street at 11pm? -sure werent we all dragged up the same way, Want to fistfight because I happened to call the gardai for your raging party at 4am?- what else would you possibly do sure.

Soon as my income stabilises we will be off to more civilised surroundings, hopefully that's still a possibility at that stage.

facehugger99

The usual populist, non-costed, money-tree ideas from the Shinners.

The only demographic they appeal to are the terminally stupid and economically illiterate.

Wheeliebin30

engiweirdo wrote: »

To be fair people do have pretty good reasons for it. Currently (luckily) living in council area and tbh you just end up surrounded by a good proportion of people who if you ambitions even for a middle class life, you will have very little in common with. A lot you wouldnt associate with in a fit.

Have pretty much always had issues with neighbours too: Party on a Sunday/Monday night? -no bother, not like you've to be up, Loud conversations in the street at 11pm? -sure werent we all dragged up the same way, Want to fistfight because I happened to call the gardai for your raging party at 4am?- what else would you possibly do sure.

Soon as my income stabilises we will be off to more civilised surroundings, hopefully that's still a possibility at that stage.

You are the type of person who needs that bit of help and I have no problem with that.

At least you have ambitions to try improve your situation.

Ronaldinho

lawred2 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

imagine rich people and poor people living on different streets

sure isn't that's so uniquely Irish

Can only speak for myself but I couldn't give a b0llix how rich or poor my neighbours are - only that they have don't act the maggot.

Berserker

Dick phelan wrote: »

Housing is not a human right. There are issues with housing no question, we need to increase supply and make it more affordable for people in the middle. Go out and earn you own house like most do.

Given the wages on offer in Ireland, that is not possible. A single person who earns €50K per annum, which is well above the average wage, will never be able to afford a house within a reasonable distance from their place of work (Dublin/Cork for the majority). Are you suggesting that people should go down the road of getting second jobs?

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

What happens when you retire? Or you lose your job and can't pay the rent?

I see this argument a lot about how its different abroad. So what? As someone who has been renting for the last decade or more, its a load of sh*t with no safety net, it costs the earth and I might as well be pouring petrol on my money and burning it every month.

You can't compare the rental agreements that are in place abroad, lifetime leases on quality apartments, with the sh1te that goes on in here. Ireland could but never will, move to a similar model, which works for all parties.

Berserker

klaaaz wrote: »

Should be 50% social housing to end segregation between the classes. The present system has resulted in separate rich areas and poor areas in the cities and towns which is class apartheid.

Like every other city in the world? Also, on implementing this policy in Dublin and the surrounding areas, for example, what are you going to do with all the people who are in negative equity?

lawred2

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Can only speak for myself but I couldn't give a b0llix how rich or poor my neighbours are - only that they have don't act the maggot.

Nor do I.

That's got zilch to do with handing over 1 out of every 2 houses being built to social housing.

Ronaldinho

lawred2 wrote: »

That's got zilch to do with handing over 1 out of every 2 houses being built to social housing.

Your post inferred that the reason people have reservations regarding social housing is down to snobbery.

klaaaz

Berserker wrote: »

Like every other city in the world? Also, on implementing this policy in Dublin and the surrounding areas, for example, what are you going to do with all the people who are in negative equity?

Financial education classes to help them cope with the fact that they overpaid for their homes.
Presently, in the first world there are rich and poor areas often side by side with no interaction between both. It's like an invisible wall between the have's and the have not's. There needs to be more integration amongst the classes to break down the apartheid hence the 50% social housing is a good idea.

Berserker

klaaaz wrote: »

Financial education classes to help them cope with the fact that they overpaid for their homes.
Presently, in the first world there are rich and poor areas often side by side with no interaction between both. It's like an invisible wall between the have's and the have not's. There needs to be more integration amongst the classes to break down the apartheid hence the 50% social housing is a good idea.

Why not give classes to those who can't afford to buy a home to help them cope with the fact that they can't afford one? Also, where is the apartheid? I've yet to see it.

lawred2

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Your post inferred that the reason people have reservations regarding social housing is down to snobbery.

Well that was your inference.

klaaaz

Berserker wrote: »

Why not give classes to those who can't afford to buy a home to help them cope with the fact that they can't afford one? Also, where is the apartheid? I've yet to see it.

What type of classes do they need, are you suggesting free education as they cannot afford the classes?
Plenty of apartheid in Dublin. We have poor and wealthy suburbs right next to each other which is not right.

blindside88

Berserker wrote: »

Given the wages on offer in Ireland, that is not possible. A single person who earns €50K per annum, which is well above the average wage, will never be able to afford a house within a reasonable distance from their place of work (Dublin/Cork for the majority). Are you suggesting that people should go down the road of getting second jobs?



You can't compare the rental agreements that are in place abroad, lifetime leases on quality apartments, with the sh1te that goes on in here. Ireland could but never will, move to a similar model, which works for all parties.

A single person on €50k per year can quite easily get a mortgage for an affordable home within commuting distance of Cork or Dublin. They can borrow €175k (3.5 times salary), if they have a deposit saved they can buy property in and around the €200k mark.

Gunmonkey

klaaaz wrote: »

Financial education classes to help them cope with the fact that they overpaid for their homes.
Presently, in the first world there are rich and poor areas often side by side with no interaction between both. It's like an invisible wall between the have's and the have not's. There needs to be more integration amongst the classes to break down the apartheid hence the 50% social housing is a good idea.

What? I don't think you understand what apartheid means.

But lets say you achieve your 50% and break down the walls and end the "apartheid"...whats the end goal?

Whats the reason for all this?

Will the rich people see the "plight" of the poor and...give them all their money or something? Because I doubt that; all they will see is someone getting everything they have had to work hard for for free.....and off the back of their taxes too!

It certainly cant be to energise the poor to "strive for more" by viewing the rich and all they have.....because that's what we have now, isn't it? Why would they attempt to better themselves and work harder if they are going to be given for free everything the same as someone who busts their ass off to earn?

Or is it all just "s...s...social equality!" and that's it, just the fact someone has something someone else doesn't so that's not fair! :rolleyes:

twinytwo

klaaaz wrote: »

We have poor and wealthy suburbs right next to each other which is not right.

Why so?

The world isnt fair, just because a lot of people in this country like to live in a bubble does not change facts.

You will always have rich and poor, that will never change.