New car or not!

Shocks99

Hi All , just looking for opinions on this . I have a 151 BMW 320 D that I bought 14 months ago . In the past year ( a new job) I have put up almost 60000 km with a new job commuting 1200km 3 to 4 days a week ..Is now the time to move this on as the warranty is out ? I am not sure holding on is the best option with this mileage again in a years time and with the amount of imports etc . I was thinking about trading it for a new A3 or demo A4 . I understand a new car will depreciate heavily but this needs a service and 4 tyres now plus what it will depreciate in another year plus and this is probably my biggest fear as I am on the road a lot if anything significantly needs repairing in the next year , then all this really matches the depreciation in a new car . I have had 7 Audi’s before this and just changed for something different this time . I usually buy a 2 or 3 year old car every 2 years . There is now 130k on the car . Maybe now is the time to buy new . . Thanks and Apologies for the long post .

Blazer

You're talking about depreciation on a 3 year old car.
Do you know the depreciation on a brand new car the minute you drive off the forecourt?
Also there's nothing to say your new car won't break down.
BMW also offer additional warranties so you could get another 2 year warranty on your car.
You should be getting a letter from them shortly with this info.

troyzer

Why would anyone splash out on a new car when they're driving it that hard?

Spend €5k on a diesel Skoda from a few years ago, run it into the ground, replace with another €5k Skoda.

Rinse and repeat.

Toyotafanboi

troyzer wrote: »

Why would anyone splash out on a new car when they're driving it that hard?

Spend €5k on a diesel Skoda from a few years ago, run it into the ground, replace with another €5k Skoda.

Rinse and repeat.

Doing 1200kms a week is an awful lot and it certainly an extreme commute. Doing it in a past its best sub 5k Octavia would be far from my first choice, personally. If he's doing that kind of mileage, he isn't driving to a minimum wage job so if I had a few quid to spend on a car i'd be looking to do that commute in as nice a vehicle as possible. Climate control, heated seats, lumbar support, app connect, auto box etc will all make the journey more tolerable. I know you could get all those in an old Octavia but it wouldn't be the same.

amcalester

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Doing 1200kms a week is an awful lot and it certainly an extreme commute. Doing it in a past its best sub 5k Octavia would be far from my first choice, personally. If he's doing that kind of mileage, he isn't driving to a minimum wage job so if I had a few quid to spend on a car i'd be looking to do that commute in as nice a vehicle as possible. Climate control, heated seats, lumbar support, app connect, auto box etc will all make the journey more tolerable. I know you could get all those in an old Octavia but it wouldn't be the same.

If you were doing that commute and looking for a car, what would you be looking at?

troyzer

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Doing 1200kms a week is an awful lot and it certainly an extreme commute. Doing it in a past its best sub 5k Octavia would be far from my first choice, personally. If he's doing that kind of mileage, he isn't driving to a minimum wage job so if I had a few quid to spend on a car i'd be looking to do that commute in as nice a vehicle as possible. Climate control, heated seats, lumbar support, app connect, auto box etc will all make the journey more tolerable. I know you could get all those in an old Octavia but it wouldn't be the same.

I suppose but surely there's a halfway house between an old Skoda and a brand new Audi?

I wouldn't go near a one year old car with 60,000km on the clock with a barge pole. Surely the car will depreciate by more than half with that amount of mileage?

Is it really worth €10-€15k at least a year in depreciation for a few bells and whistles?

Toyotafanboi

That's a personal preference really and a bit like the poster recommending the older Skoda, it'd definitely get the job done for the least financial outlay but at a cost of some level of comfort. If that suit you, well and good but i'd say someone currently driving a 3 year old 3 series would be less than impressed with a 10 year old Octavia.

It's not an end of the market that id have much ownership experience with so I couldn't personally recommend a car.

troyzer

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That's a personal preference really and a bit like the poster recommending the older Skoda, it'd definitely get the job done for the least financial outlay but at a cost of some level of comfort. If that suit you, well and good but i'd say someone currently driving a 3 year old 3 series would be less than impressed with a 10 year old Octavia.

It's not an end of the market that id have much ownership experience with so I couldn't personally recommend a car.

The only way a brand new car makes sense is if the OP is absolutely loaded. In which case, I'd just go with whatever catches the eye.

But I don't think the OP is loaded because the whole premise of this post was wondering if it's better value to trade in now. Something you wouldn't bother with if you were loaded.

Shocks99

Thanks to everyone for the replies . Yeah your right troyzer I am def not loaded :-).. I don’t want to go down the route of an old car for the reasons Toyotafanboi pointed out , and I would also have to try and offload the beemer . I am talkin about new or nearly new . If we say the beemer is worth 17k now what will it be worth next year with another year of mileage . A new or nearly new will depreciate a lot I know but if I was to go back now say every 2 years with 100 k on the clock . Is 15k depreciation unrealistic .Is it a lot more ? Also I didn’t think bmw did extended warranty for cars over 120 k km.. But I could be wrong , again .!!! .

troyzer

Shocks99 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the replies . Yeah your right troyzer I am def not loaded :-).. I don’t want to go down the route of an old car for the reasons Toyotafanboi pointed out , and I would also have to try and offload the beemer . I am talkin about new or nearly new . If we say the beemer is worth 17k now what will it be worth next year with another year of mileage . A new or nearly new will depreciate a lot I know but if I was to go back now say every 2 years with 100 k on the clock . Is 15k depreciation unrealistic .Is it a lot more ? Also I didn’t think bmw did extended warranty for cars over 120 k km.. But I could be wrong , again .!!! .

There's a lot of value to be had in some older cars though. You can still have comfortable and reliable, you don't have to spring for a new car. Is it absolutely critical? Can you afford the depreciation?

You could probably get a really good spec Skoda or VW diesel with all of the bells and whistles from the early 2010s for less than a straight swap for the BMW. Then you can afford to drive the arse off them.

Shocks99

I know what your saying Troyzer , so what do I do with the beemer . Sell it privately . If that was possible say I bought an older car for 10k . A year down the road the car is worth 6 or so the few k I had left over from the sale ( if that happens )is gone and I am left with an old car doing large mileage . I have equity in the beemer I know if I go the way I am going I will always have a car loan but I could upgrade every few years . Maybe my thinking is all warped ��

troyzer

Shocks99 wrote: »

I know what your saying Troyzer , so what do I do with the beemer . Sell it privately . If that was possible say I bought an older car for 10k . A year down the road the car is worth 6 or so the few k I had left over from the sale ( if that happens )is gone and I am left with an old car doing large mileage . I have equity in the beemer I know if I go the way I am going I will always have a car loan but I could upgrade every few years . Maybe my thinking is all warped ��

Constantly upgrading a new or newish car is the way it should be done, but it doesn't seem suitable for the sheer number of KMs you clock up.

I could be completely wrong.

bazz26

OP, with your high mileage you're never going to outrun hefty depreciation. All cars need maintenance especially with that mileage and that includes older cars.

Spending money on a new car isn't going to change anything in that respect, you will be back to square one in a year or two. You might battle the depreciation curve better with a cheaper older car but wear takes it's it's tole here too. There is no guarantee you won't be spending money on this either.

You might want to look at this predicament from a different angle. You say your mileage is mostly commuting 3 to 4 days a week. Is it possible to get accomodation closer to the job for a few of those days per week? Is it possible to work from home/remotely some of those days to reduce your weekly commute? These options might work out cheaper than the high depreciation on your existing car or a brand new one.

kerten

- Driving a less than 3 years old car always
- Driving 1200 km per week
- Not to have crazy depreciation cost

You can only have 2 of those three in your case. I would go for older(5-6 years old) 5 series/A6/E-class for a balanced act. Benefit from comfort of upper class and have budget for potential maintanence via lower depreciation.

Lantus

In your case your car is your workplace so any financials have to balanced with the huge amount of time you spend in the car and its importance in what you do.

Most cars serviced well should last 5 to 6 years without any bother on balance.

A 2yr old car would seem to be a good choice. Paid for over 2 to 3 years and used as much as possible (4 to 5 years) before trading no doubt as scrap given the 200k + expected mileage.

Look at reliability surveys and comfort as these are 2 criteria you value.

For example skoda superb (which I am not explicitly recommending) is noted by what car as the most reliable diesel out there. Quite a comfy and economic and reasonable car.

Audi BMW may be preferred but all associated costs increase. Tyres in particular which you will need in constant supply.

Shocks99

Thanks folks I have tried to send this reply 3 times , but it keeps saying its too short , as I am new I am not too sure . Bazz I see your point and I am staying away a night so that should help , Kerten I know what you are saying about a 5 or 6 year old car but I still need to move on the beemer and I am not sure how easy that would be with the amount of imports on this type of car . Lantus maybe a 2 year old car might be the way , something with low mileage and a good spec. Thanks again I appreciate all suggestions and opinions.

Tindog76

What about 'better the devil you know' attitude and keep your beemer. Drive it into the ground or to a point where it becomes uneconomical to fix and in the meantime pay off what you owe and save for a deposit beyond that!

Shocks99

Yes Tindog I know what your saying . I have usually changed a car every 2 to 3 years and buying a car 2 to 3 years old , it’s just with the mileage I am doing now , not too sure what to do hence this post . Maybe as a previous poster stated I could get an extended bmw warranty on the car , but I don’t think this is possible on a car with over 120k km , but I may be wrong .

Mooooo

Perhaps look at it from a running costs point of view. If changing every 2 to 3 years with a newer car you will always be paying finance + diesel with maintenance being straight forward. If buying an older car finance may be less but money will have to be put away for any possible larger costs as mileage will be higher clutches etc.
Set a monthly figure which you will can manage to pay out and then see which brand may have the better finance options to change every 2 to 3 years. Are you self employed or an employee? If self employed would some manufacturers have business offers in terms of replacing every 2/3 years

Casati

Your 320d would sell privately easily if priced low - 17k would be low I’d say

I’d buy a 2018 pre reg small exec car in UK with almost zero miles, ie another 320d or A4, and keep it two more years

You’d be selling it as a v desirable car, 3 years old with not massive mileage - ie 120k ish

Shocks99

Apologies folks I have sent 3 replies to casati and moooos post ,they never submitted . I am new here so it’s probably me !!! I am not self employed but your suggestion is the way I am thinking , casati I will put the beemer up today on a few websites . Not sure I have the savvy to bring in a pre reg from the UK. Was quoted 36k for an 182 demo model from dealer with a v low interest rate .

Casati

Shocks99 wrote: »

Apologies folks I have sent 3 replies to casati and moooos post ,they never submitted . I am new here so it’s probably me !!! I am not self employed but your suggestion is the way I am thinking , casati I will put the beemer up today on a few websites . Not sure I have the savvy to bring in a pre reg from the UK. Was quoted 36k for an 182 demo model from dealer with a v low interest rate .

What 182 was that - an A4? Getting low interest rate from an Irish dealer is a good benefit with buying locally

One of the other posters mentioned wheel sizes - as your buying two sets of tires a year make sure you don’t buy anything without knowing the cost of decent replacements for that specific size wheel, the difference in cost between certain 17’s and say 20’s could be 500 extra a set

mickdw

You value current car at 17k.

If you buy new, you will drop 17k in depreciation in 2 years so realistically, it will be cheaper to drive on in your own car.
If you want a new car that's ok but it will never be the cheaper option.
Best option would be to import a low mile 2 year old every 1 to 2 years and sell on with normal enough mileage then here.

Shocks99

Casati yes it’s an A4 . Interest rate is 1.9 %. I know imports are saving people money but when you factor in bank loan interest against some garage rates then the gap narrows plus you have all the back up here with warranty etc. Mickdw that’s a fair point and 17k depreciation is crazy over 2 years . I always did this with cars where I traded every couple of years for a 2 or 3 year old module .but the mileage was also fairly low on the car I was trading ,with the job I am doing now it’s very high . I appreciate all the replies and opinions .Its all food for thought .

bazz26

Is the 36k a cash price or the money they want plus your existing car?

Shocks99

Bazz the 36k is the price of the A4 . If and I have been quoted 17k for the beemer then it’s approx 19k to change . That A4 was 182 150 ultra .

bazz26

Is PCP worth looking at?

I know they sting you for excessive mileage at the end of year 3 in the form of the trade-in value but your getting a brand new car with a long warranty from it. Even after 2 years if the mileage is high but not excessive you might still have some equity in it to trade up to another new car? Surely it would work out cheaper than paying 19k to trade up every two years as it is? Certainly worth getting some figures together for comparison.

Lantus

bazz26 wrote: »

Is PCP worth looking at?

I know they sting you for excessive mileage at the end of year 3 in the form of the trade-in value but your getting a brand new car with a long warranty from it. Even after 2 years if the mileage is high but not excessive you might still have some equity in it to trade up to another new car? Surely it would work out cheaper than paying 19k to trade up every two years as it is? Certainly worth getting some figures together for comparison.

Ops mileage of 60k a year won't wash with pcp.
Once your honest with the mileage they most likely will turn to hp. If you lie there is most likely a clause to prevent them taking a car with 180k+ kms on it. No dealer wants that car.

Chesty08

Great thread and it’s giving me some food for thought too.

Currently driving an 06 VW and I’ve driven it into the ground. Engine & clutch faults etc.. At the point where it will cost about 1/1.5k to fix

Was in pricing a new 191 & looking at €500 per month or €6k per year with a GTV of 18k after 3 years. Value of car is 41k.

My mileage is 45k per year.

Am I in the same boat as OP & crazy to go with a 191 as it will lose value, but what about the GTV?

mickdw

Chesty08 wrote: »

Great thread and it’s giving me some food for thought too.

Currently driving an 06 VW and I’ve driven it into the ground. Engine & clutch faults etc.. At the point where it will cost about 1/1.5k to fix

Was in pricing a new 191 & looking at €500 per month or €6k per year with a GTV of 18k after 3 years. Value of car is 41k.

My mileage is 45k per year.

Am I in the same boat as OP & crazy to go with a 191 as it will lose value, but what about the GTV?

Going that far over mileage allowance, the car won't cover the gfv amount owed at the end.

Chesty08

mickdw wrote: »

Going that far over mileage allowance, the car won't cover the gfv amount owed at the end.

What do we think mileage would be covered & what would happen the value of the 191... do we think it would be 15k? I.e lose 26k in value over 3 years with 135k mileage?

Casati

Chesty08 wrote: »

What do we think mileage would be covered & what would happen the value of the 191... do we think it would be 15k? I.e lose 26k in value over 3 years with 135k mileage?

Depends on the car but to give an idea VW charge 6 cent per km over 60km so that would be 4500 penalty if you just returned it

Chesty08

Casati wrote: »

Depends on the car but to give an idea VW charge 6 cent per km over 60km so that would be 4500 penalty if you just returned it

Excuse my maths but how did you calculate 4,500€? 134,940 x 0.06 cent = €8,097?

Secondly are we saying this if 4,500 off on the GTV?

This is great to know btw & it’s definitely something I have to factor in & something I wasn’t aware of. Thank you

mickdw

Chesty08 wrote: »

Excuse my maths but how did you calculate 4,500€? 134,940 x 0.06 cent = €8,097?

Secondly are we saying this if 4,500 off on the GTV?

This is great to know btw & it’s definitely something I have to factor in & something I wasn’t aware of. Thank you

Allowed 20000 km per year (or maybe 15k).
If trading in for new car, you will be offered a trade in value based on what the car is worth so will not pay the mileage penalty in that exact form but you will pay a penalty in that your car will clearly be worth less than a low mile one so I low mile driver might trade in and have 4k equity to go forward to next car whereas your car probably will not cover the gfv owed.

Lantus

mickdw wrote: »

Allowed 20000 km per year (or maybe 15k).
If trading in for new car, you will be offered a trade in value based on what the car is worth so will not pay the mileage penalty in that exact form but you will pay a penalty in that your car will clearly be worth less than a low mile one so I low mile driver might trade in and have 4k equity to go forward to next car whereas your car probably will not cover the gfv owed.

I would say that when you tell them you will be doing 60k a year pcp won't be offerred.

When there is such a huge choice of 3 year old cars available between 40k and 80k after 3 years why would you even consider 180k??!?!

Casati

Lantus wrote: »

I would say that when you tell them you will be doing 60k a year pcp won't be offerred.

When there is such a huge choice of 3 year old cars available between 40k and 80k after 3 years why would you even consider 180k??!?!

Yeah agreed, I think to reduce the avg mileage buying now at end of year a pre reg or v low 181/182 is a wise move.

In fairness 19k to change up three years isn’t bad going, I know lads spending 10k a year to stay in a new 3 series. Obviously the op can get cheaper motoring but it hard to drive a fresh A4 or 320d that kind of mileage for much less than that

Shocks99

Thanks lads for all the replies . I am hoping to go to Audi today or tomorrow after work . I spoke on the phone and they were saying maybe pcp over 2 years . Not sure he heard my mileage right :-) .. Hopefully I will have some info later today .

mickdw

Shocks99 wrote: »

Thanks lads for all the replies . I am hoping to go to Audi today or tomorrow after work . I spoke on the phone and they were saying maybe pcp over 2 years . Not sure he heard my mileage right :-) .. Hopefully I will have some info later today .

2 year Pcp is a joke. Its just a way of swallowing up your deposit over a 2 year deal instead of 3.
Whatever deal you consider, work out the total cost to you per year for comparison.

Local dealer has loads of 3 year old high mile A6 on their adjoining non franchise used car lot so they are certainly taking back Pcp stuff with mad miles on them. There would have been poor trade ins given though for sure.

bazz26

I'd say the PCP term will remain 3 years but the optimal time to change would be at 2 years when there might still be some value in the car. Plenty of people with PCP change after 2 years. Is it any worse than throwing 19k at a lower mileage nearly new car every 2 years? Man maths will tell.

Casati

Casati wrote: »

Depends on the car but to give an idea VW charge 6 cent per km over 60km so that would be 4500 penalty if you just returned it

How strict are they on this though? A family member with a vw on pcp was told not to worry about the kms. They won’t be crazy over but they will be over come the end and were more or less told it won’t matter or impact their trade in.

Casati

Kimber Calm Trailer wrote: »

How strict are they on this though? A family member with a vw on pcp was told not to worry about the kms. They won’t be crazy over but they will be over come the end and were more or less told it won’t matter or impact their trade in.

It will reduce the value of the trade in versus a lower mileage car, 6 cent per km fully protects the dealer, maybe split that in half and 3 cent a km is a better gauge

Shocks99

Just an update folks, went to an Audi garage today .Trade in value for my BMW they were offering 13500 euros and the Audi I looked at an 182 demo was 37,000 so now that’s 23500 to change . 3 year pcp was 380 per month plus the beemer for a deposit and GmV was 17525 . Well the way I am with my mileage going back in 3 years which will be a 4 year old car , as MickDw pointed out in an earlier post it won’t be worth near the GMV when I trade it in . Obviously the car is worth more than 13500 (I know not to this garage ). I am pretty realistic about depreciation ( or so I thought ) but No matter what way I am looking at these maths will the add up to anything but crazy , no trade in value and massive depreciation seems to be the outcome .. maybe just hold onto the beemer for another year might be the best outcome . Again thanks for all your replies and opinions..

Casati

Shocks99 wrote: »

Just an update folks, went to an Audi garage today .Trade in value for my BMW they were offering 13500 euros and the Audi I looked at an 182 demo was 37,000 so now that’s 23500 to change . 3 year pcp was 380 per month plus the beemer for a deposit and GmV was 17525 . Well the way I am with my mileage going back in 3 years which will be a 4 year old car , as MickDw pointed out in an earlier post it won’t be worth near the GMV when I trade it in . Obviously the car is worth more than 13500 (I know not to this garage ). I am pretty realistic about depreciation ( or so I thought ) but No matter what way I am looking at these maths will the add up to anything but crazy , no trade in value and massive depreciation seems to be the outcome .. maybe just hold onto the beemer for another year might be the best outcome . Again thanks for all your replies and opinions..

Maybe try to sell privately now, if you don’t get any takers hang onto her for another year?

bazz26

PCP only really makes sense on a brand new car as there are usually incentives by manufacturers to get new cars sold. A 182 demo/pre reg is already a used car so the manufacturer has little to gain by offering an incentive on it when they are measured on selling new cars.

Being honest, I'd just keep driving the 3 Series until it becomes uneconomical to repair.

mickdw

Looks like the easy option - you get your new car for a reasonable monthly, no hassle re private sales or importing but that deal is basically eating up you deposit over the term as I don't see you retaining any equity at the end.

How would you be fixed in 3 years returning and having to stump up another maybe 15k up front to get into a similar deal again?

From those figures, it is clear that driving on your own car is far cheaper than trading. If you kept your car for 3 years more and basically gave it away at the end, you would still be saving 36 x €380 over the term still to arrive in the same position at end of 3 years - that is the position of basically having no car.

Shocks99

In fairness Mick it’s hard to disagree with what you are saying . They are the facts really . It’s just the hoor I am I like to change every couple of years. :-)

Chesty08

mickdw wrote: »

From those figures, it is clear that driving on your own car is far cheaper than trading. If you kept your car for 3 years more and basically gave it away at the end, you would still be saving 36 x €380 over the term still to arrive in the same position at end of 3 years - that is the position of basically having no car.

This is my understanding of it all too.

If you keep your current car you will save 36 x €380 ~ €13.5k. But You will a car worth 0 and be starting from scratch. This doesn’t factor in maintenance on this car which could be any amount

If you trade in & get car on PCP you will have GTV ~ €17.5k. What do you reckon your penalty will be going over the mileage ~ 4.5k? Overall you will have invested €13.5k + €4.5k = €18k for the 3 years.

You can repeat where you were & start again new car in year 22.

Casati

Chesty08 wrote: »

This is my understanding of it all too.

If you keep your current car you will save 36 x €380 ~ €13.5k. But You will a car worth 0 and be starting from scratch. This doesn’t factor in maintenance on this car which could be any amount

If you trade in & get car on PCP you will have GTV ~ €17.5k. What do you reckon your penalty will be going over the mileage ~ 4.5k? Overall you will have invested €13.5k + €4.5k = €18k for the 3 years.

You can repeat where you were & start again new car in year 22.

I think the deal you are offered is poor, eg I see A4 SE 150 with 100km asking 34950 so you’d probably get it a little less paying cash, say 34000. If you got the assumed 17k or close to it that’s 17k to trade up three years and importantly into a car with no miles on it

Changingtime

Lot of confusion over PCP and mileage.

Going over the mileage of your deal only results on a penalty IF you are intending to hand the car back to the finance company and walk away. Setting aside financial difficulty issues, You would only ever walk away if the market/trade in value of the car plus any mileage penatly was leas than the GMFV.

Generally you either:

1 - pay or Finance the GMFV and the car is yours. Mileage irrelevant.
2 - trade in for a new car. No penalty with Finance company for mileage but of course it will affect your trade in value.

PCP in a way protects from depreciation as if the market /trade in value drops below the GMFV you can walk away, subject to mileage penalty and car being in reasonable condition.

Casati

Changingtime wrote: »

Lot of confusion over PCP and mileage.

Going over the mileage of your deal only results on a penalty IF you are intending to hand the car back to the finance company and walk away. Setting aside financial difficulty issues, You would only ever walk away if the market/trade in value of the car plus any mileage penatly was leas than the GMFV.

Generally you either:

1 - pay or Finance the GMFV and the car is yours. Mileage irrelevant.
2 - trade in for a new car. No penalty with Finance company for mileage but of course it will affect your trade in value.

PCP in a way protects from depreciation as if the market /trade in value drops below the GMFV you can walk away, subject to mileage penalty and car being in reasonable condition.

I think that the mileage penalty is a good estimate of how much a dealer could potentially penalize you with trade in value, ie at a high end of 6 cent per km

To be clear if the op goes over the pcp km allowance by a massive amount eg 60,000km allowance and 180,000km actual, then it likely that the trade in value will be far less than amount owed and the only option open might be to hand the car back and pay the mileage penalty if the op doesn’t want to keep it

Changingtime

Casati wrote: »

I think that the mileage penalty is a good estimate of how much a dealer could potentially penalize you with trade in value, ie at a high end of 6 cent per km

Penalise this value from what value though?
??

The value of the car will be the value of the car. Mileage is one of many factors. This penalty is absolutely irrelevant if you are trading up and calculating it is pointless.

It's just confusing people. You are far better off looking at current 3 year old cars with similar mileage to estimate what your car might be worth a trade in time.