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IRFU land sale

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  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Clareman


    https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/1112/1010342-irfu-sells-92-acres-of-land-in-dublin-for-27m/

    27 million will be great for developing the grass roots game but I feel like this may have been a short sighted move as it’s only a matter of time before leinster outgrow the rds and the revamp seems to be on the long finger

    if they outgrow the RDS they have the Aviva. Clubs aren't going to generate 27 million for the union so they are right to sell and take the money and hopefully invest it into the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,285 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl


    If Leinster outgrow the RDS (which I don't really think they are in any danger of doing) then the more obvious next step would be just the Aviva. Not sure there would be any point building a 30k stadium to be honest. Also going out to Newland's Cross for a game would be ****e anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,444 ✭✭✭✭ Skid X


    https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/1112/1010342-irfu-sells-92-acres-of-land-in-dublin-for-27m/

    27 million will be great for developing the grass roots game but I feel like this may have been a short sighted move as it’s only a matter of time before leinster outgrow the rds and the revamp seems to be on the long finger

    The RDS might sell out a few times each year at best, and that's with Leinster doing the double last year.

    There is no fanbase being turned away en masse. An improved slightly larger RDS with the Aviva Stadium option a few times a year is the future, not Newlands Cross.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,331 ✭✭✭✭ Losty Dublin


    This land was purchased by the IRFU in the mid 90's when there was a lot of speculation about the direction of the new entity that was professional rugby. There was multiple new stadia for the city (Eircom Park, Dublin Dons, The Arena, Croke Park and a replacement for Lansdowne Road) while land for new club fields was also at a premium, this being a time when the club game was still strong.

    Under pressure to do something for the clubs and to secure something for the future, the IRFU purchased farmland in the Newlands Cross area on a wait and see basis. In the end Lansdowne Road was redeveloped so the lands were not required for playing fields as club rugby has diminished somewhat in the city. Now that finances within the game are healthy, the Aviva debts are in good stead and real estate prices are strong it is perhaps a good time to capitalise on the asset.

    It is worth pointing out here that the monies realised here will be for the IRFU and not for the professional Pro14 clubs. We are entering a critical era in rugby where players are breaking through; investment is needed long term to ensure that there will be as good as in 10, 20, 30 years time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/1112/1010342-irfu-sells-92-acres-of-land-in-dublin-for-27m/

    27 million will be great for developing the grass roots game but I feel like this may have been a short sighted move as it’s only a matter of time before leinster outgrow the rds and the revamp seems to be on the long finger

    The land has been owned for 25 years. Probably the opposite of short sighted.

    Clearly this land was not in the plans for the IRFU. I assume in the next few years there will be some developments in National Sports Campus where the FAI and the GAA both have programs.

    Better to wait for the market to favour the sale. Currently house prices seem to be peaking. Sell now for top dollar before being too patient ends up costing a few million


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,028 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    If Leinster outgrow the RDS (which I don't really think they are in any danger of doing) then the more obvious next step would be just the Aviva. Not sure there would be any point building a 30k stadium to be honest. Also going out to Newland's Cross for a game would be ****e anyway.

    We won't be able to use the Aviva as Leinster's sole home ground on a permanent basis, it can certainly be used on a more frequent basis for larger games in the future, but it's generally standard that there's a dedicated international team ground, as well as the fact we ground share with the FAI.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,364 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    It would probably be prohibitively expensive to use Lansdowne road every week.

    But Leinster won’t have that problem. They are winning all round them at the moment and still the RDS has thousands of empty seats most weekends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,285 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl


    We won't be able to use the Aviva as Leinster's sole home ground on a permanent basis, it can certainly be used on a more frequent basis for larger games in the future, but it's generally standard that there's a dedicated international team ground, as well as the fact we ground share with the FAI.

    We're about several hundred years away form it being an issue anyway, but we would never need it for every game. I doubt we need to shift more than the 2 games we currently do for a while to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    awec wrote: »
    It would probably be prohibitively expensive to use Lansdowne road every week.

    But Leinster won’t have that problem. They are winning all round them at the moment and still the RDS has thousands of empty seats most weekends.

    Depressingly true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,028 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    I reckon they should build a ground on the Northside instead.

    Not that it's needed, I just want to witness the meltdown.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Also, if there were any legitimate concerns about Leinster outgrowing the RDS, then we wouldn't be in advanced plans to redevelop it.

    And certainly not for the less that 3k seats they are planning to add to it...


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,443 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    I’m sure Leinster have plans to increase crowds but realistically it won’t be beyond 20 odd thousand. RDS revamped will hold nearly this and it can be improved in the future. Nothing would kill crowds like having them head out miles from the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/1112/1010342-irfu-sells-92-acres-of-land-in-dublin-for-27m/

    27 million will be great for developing the grass roots game but I feel like this may have been a short sighted move as it’s only a matter of time before leinster outgrow the rds and the revamp seems to be on the long finger
    Leinster arent going to outgrow the RDS. 27 million for grass roots and other areas of game would be great but that site as a place for grass roots and some elite development would have been fantastic.
    The land has been owned for 25 years. Probably the opposite of short sighted.

    Clearly this land was not in the plans for the IRFU. I assume in the next few years there will be some developments in National Sports Campus where the FAI and the GAA both have programs.

    Better to wait for the market to favour the sale. Currently house prices seem to be peaking. Sell now for top dollar before being too patient ends up costing a few million
    IRFU have developments in Abbotstown already and i think there's further space there allocated to IRFU.
    Considering nothings been done with the land for years IRFU didnt have any plans with it which is a great shame


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,061 ✭✭✭ cjt156


    I reckon they should build a ground on the Northside instead.

    Not that it's needed, I just want to witness the meltdown.

    I seem to recall that North of the river there is a stadium in existence for the playing of their indigenous games...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    I reckon they should build a ground on the Northside instead.

    Not that it's needed, I just want to witness the meltdown.

    There are a lot of those people on here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    If Leinster outgrow the RDS (which I don't really think they are in any danger of doing) then the more obvious next step would be just the Aviva. Not sure there would be any point building a 30k stadium to be honest. Also going out to Newland's Cross for a game would be ****e anyway.

    Could the other provinces not veto Leinster moving into the Aviva permanently?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭ troyzer


    bilston wrote: »
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    If Leinster outgrow the RDS (which I don't really think they are in any danger of doing) then the more obvious next step would be just the Aviva. Not sure there would be any point building a 30k stadium to be honest. Also going out to Newland's Cross for a game would be ****e anyway.

    Could the other provinces not veto Leinster moving into the Aviva permanently?

    Why would they do that? It would ultimately benefit the IRFU and by extension the other provinces.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    Leinster arent going to outgrow the RDS. 27 million for grass roots and other areas of game would be great but that site as a place for grass roots and some elite development would have been fantastic.
    That would probably have required the investment of a lot of money into the site. 90 acres is a pretty massive land bank. The cost of developing that would be pretty big I would have thought. Not sure that you'd get the kind of use out of it to justfy both the lost value and the cost of development.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,443 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Leinster won’t be moving into the Aviva and if they do get to the stage(they won’t) where they need a 50,000 seater stadium then why would anyone have an issue with them going into the Aviva?
    Irfu don’t need that land it makes sense to sell it now when it’s worth s lot of money


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,285 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl


    bilston wrote: »
    Could the other provinces not veto Leinster moving into the Aviva permanently?

    No? On what possible basis?

    I mean, the IRFU could say no because it is their stadium and the IRFU is essentially made up of the other provinces so in a roundabout way they could stop it I guess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,249 ✭✭✭✭ Guy:Incognito


    They could have carved off a chunk to give( long term rent to buy?) to a local club that doesn't have their own ground to build much needed facilities................

    Surely the IRFU could see the merits in tapping in to the potential player and fanbase in an area as big as Tallaght.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Neil3030


    IRFU firesell 27m of land when negotiating with Joe on his new contract?

    Can't be a coincidence....


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    bilston wrote: »
    Could the other provinces not veto Leinster moving into the Aviva permanently?
    Its not going to happen as not sure anyone would want it.
    troyzer wrote: »
    Why would they do that? It would ultimately benefit the IRFU and by extension the other provinces.
    Its never going to happen but other provinces wouldnt really benefit from such a move.
    prawnsambo wrote: »
    That would probably have required the investment of a lot of money into the site. 90 acres is a pretty massive land bank. The cost of developing that would be pretty big I would have thought. Not sure that you'd get the kind of use out of it to justfy both the lost value and the cost of development.
    A lot of investment would have been required but as a basis for multiple clubs in the area as well as a pro game base etc it would have been very good. Now if money used from sale of land goes to that purpose great but shame to have done nothing with the land in area rugby isnt the strongest in


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    IRFU firesell 27m of land when negotiating with Joe on his new contract?

    Can't be a coincidence....

    Who is Joe?

    Oh you mean Lord Newlands?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    They could have carved off a chunk to give( long term rent to buy?) to a local club that doesn't have their own ground to build much needed facilities................

    Surely the IRFU could see the merits in tapping in to the potential player and fanbase in an area as big as Tallaght.

    The IRFU have been trying to develop a increased base in Tallaght/Clondalkin since that land was bought. I don’t think building a white elephant there would really change that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,249 ✭✭✭✭ Guy:Incognito


    stephen_n wrote: »
    The IRFU have been trying to develop a increased base in Tallaght/Clondalkin since that land was bought. I don’t think building a white elephant there would really change that.

    I didn't mean any sort of stadium.

    Literally a gift (or sale over a number of years) of enough land that the club could set up on. Develope a couple of pitches and a clubhouse at its own expense.

    Having the land is the key for clubs. It allows applications for lottery funding and sports grants. It would give rugby a foothold in Tallaght. Not having any sort of clubhouse, training under a couple of crap lights and having no shower facilities results in large turnover of players. This all stops a club from getting established and growing.

    Its in the best interest of the leinster branch and the IRFU to have a proper set up in an area like Tallaght.

    Its yourself that was /is with the warriors is it not? You should know more than most the hardship of training on bits of land in Bolbrook with battery powered lights and no proper facilities. That's not a way to build a club.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    I didn't mean any sort of stadium.

    Literally a gift (or sale over a number of years) of enough land that the club could set up on. Develope a couple of pitches and a clubhouse at its own expense.

    Having the land is the key for clubs. It allows applications for lottery funding and sports grants. It would give rugby a foothold in Tallaght. Not having any sort of clubhouse, training under a couple of crap lights and having no shower facilities results in large turnover of players. This all stops a club from getting established and growing.

    Its in the best interest of the leinster branch and the IRFU to have a proper set up in an area like Tallaght.
    Well in theory that sounds good, but it would depend I’m sure on access and how much said land would be worth commercially. At 300,000 an acre, that is a substantial amount of money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,249 ✭✭✭✭ Guy:Incognito


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Well in theory that sounds good, but it would depend I’m sure on access and how much said land would be worth commercially. At 300,000 an acre, that is a substantial amount of money.

    Is that not what the IRFU are all about though? Rugby growth and development in Ireland?

    Plus, it wouldn't be actually spending money. It'd just be taking in less on a sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    salmocab wrote: »
    Leinster won’t be moving into the Aviva and if they do get to the stage(they won’t) where they need a 50,000 seater stadium then why would anyone have an issue with them going into the Aviva?
    Irfu don’t need that land it makes sense to sell it now when it’s worth s lot of money

    If Leinster need to build a new stadium I’d hazard a guess and say it’ll be a joint venture with the GAA for Dublin games


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,249 ✭✭✭✭ Guy:Incognito


    ted1 wrote: »
    If Leinster need to build a new stadium I’d hazard a guess and say it’ll be a joint venture with the GAA for Dublin games

    Jesus, I'd hope not. The pitch was lost in the middle of croke Park. It was like being in a ground with a running track.


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