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Hibernia College PMEP - Stick it out?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭ evolving_doors


    I was indeed on what I believe to be a better training course from a learning point of view. Snobbishness wasn't really a factor as such.

    Says you:pac:
    Have you been on all the other training courses then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭ James Bond Junior


    Says you:pac:
    Have you been on all the other training courses then?

    Good point, I have not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭ fed_u


    Everyone has their opinions of which course is better.. It's the teacher themself and even their subjects that will depend on their employment opportunities at the end of it!
    Hibernia is very difficult to find info on what is involved - it's pretty much full time, online with some course days on Saturday's - location varies but for post primary it was UCD.
    Re online content for the course - it's not possible to get through it all. The online discussions, portfolios and many of the additional readings are not going to be monitored etc so do the necessary work and don't worry about getting all the boxes checked each time!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭ jimbobaloobob


    As a graduate of Hibernia it served perfect for me
    Yes expensive but less so that if I had to return to full time college. There was more than enough face to face with lectures with onsites weekly and webinars through the week.
    Not everyone that does it will go on to teach 1000+ teachers won't look for a job in the same schools as you so your odds aren't as gloomy.
    The course served well for prep for a dip as in so many ways we were self reliant for resources.
    It's not for Everyone but it provides an option for others.
    People read too much into the business of hibernia they do what they do to make profit and provide a service same as any other business.
    Head down and get on with it if you really want the long term goal OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭ tonycascarino


    Just a question but when do the September '17 PME cohort do their Advanced school placement ? Anyone know?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭ fed_u


    Just a question but when do the September '17 PME cohort do their Advanced school placement ? Anyone know?

    I'm not on that cohort but assume it's Jan/Feb 19


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭ jimbobaloobob


    Just a question but when do the September '17 PME cohort do their Advanced school placement ? Anyone know?


    It should be on your calendar in the myhelms portal


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 jarasanew


    Dropped Out
    I just wanted to report that I have decided to drop out from this course. Yes, I am going to loose the €7500 already spent. But I can not justify spending another €10,000 on it (2nd yr fees plus mandatory Gaeltacht fees). I have come to see that the opportunities in primary teaching, in Ireland, are not what they seemed. Nearly all my classmates are justifying the expense by saying that they will find work abroad but that is not an option for me. I am thoroughly disillusioned with the methods of teaching and lack of academic support at Hibernia. I find their assignments unnecessarily complex and time consuming. The actual time for real learning of teaching is minimal. There has been a complete lack of empathy from college staff that I have been in contact with. It usually amounts to 'everyone else can get on with it so why can't you?' They make no allowances for mature, independent students with real world issues such as kids, family, and work commitments (even though their advertising lets on that we are catered for). The vast majority of my classmates are living with parents and don't have to work to support themselves - this would make it a lot easier! I would still love to be a teacher but I can achieve this in other ways. I have received a job offer in another area of my expertise that involves lecturing opportunities and I intend to follow that. I salute all those who have gotten through the PMEP at Hibernia. It's far from easy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭ jimbobaloobob


    jarasanew wrote: »
    Dropped Out I am thoroughly disillusioned with the methods of teaching and lack of academic support at Hibernia. I find their assignments unnecessarily complex and time consuming. The actual time for real learning of teaching is minimal. There has been a complete lack of empathy from college staff that I have been in contact with. It usually amounts to 'everyone else can get on with it so why can't you?' They make no allowances for mature, independent students with real world issues such as kids, family, and work commitments.

    Glad for you that you've made a decision jarasnew. I'm sure it didn't come easy. Don't forget their will be some tax allowance on fees paid so don't forget that come tax time of year.
    Sorry to hear your experience with Hibernia was negative. I've completed the course in the recent past and found them to be very accommodating with 'real life issues' I experienced more than I'd care to share during the course.

    Because it's a masters programme the research aspects of tasks can seem unnecessary but the same would apply with any of the other teaching bodies but in the long run I find the course has prepared me very well for the work loads and expectations of teaching nowadays.

    The time in teaching practice all falls into year two or starts rather at the end of year one. Block 1 6 weeks, Sen setting 1 week observation, block 2 6 weeks and final block 3 10 weeks. Not sure how that matches up for teaching experience but by the final block the class is yours morning to evening for the 10 weeks. As real as it gets I guess.

    At any rate I wish you well in your career path and feel somewhat delighted to see someone weighing up options and making a decision considered right for them. Good on you and best of luck


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,862 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    jarasanew wrote: »
    Dropped Out

    That is a pity OP but I am sure you know what is best for you.

    One thing to point out, in general, is that at least Hibernia gave you the opportunity to study a PME. Teaching training is fairly limited in Ireland so the Hibernia route does offer people living various different lives an opportunity and I say well for it, there should be more of it.

    Our perception of training and education needs a rethink. Its fine for a 18-year-old fresh from the Leaving to go off to college and study whatever they want, but if you are a 30 or 40 something perhaps with half a career behind you, with kids and a family then options like Hibernia needs to be commended and supported as it gives people an opportunity to live their dreams. Surely this is a good thing, snobbery aside.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,944 ✭✭✭ amacca


    markodaly wrote: »
    That is a pity OP but I am sure you know what is best for you.

    One thing to point out, in general, is that at least Hibernia gave you the opportunity to study a PME. Teaching training is fairly limited in Ireland so the Hibernia route does offer people living various different lives an opportunity and I say well for it, there should be more of it.

    Our perception of training and education needs a rethink. Its fine for a 18-year-old fresh from the Leaving to go off to college and study whatever they want, but if you are a 30 or 40 something perhaps with half a career behind you, with kids and a family then options like Hibernia needs to be commended and supported as it gives people an opportunity to live their dreams. Surely this is a good thing, snobbery aside.

    Agreed that the flexibility of how you can train is to be welcomed but....

    Im not so sure training way way more people for positions than there are positions is such a great idea for teachers or students or the trainees 12k per year for a qualification that has much reduced chances of a full time position and whose working conditions are degrading day by day is to be lauded quite so much.

    As far as I can see this benefits those providing the courses treating entrants as cash cows and Govt side who would like a lever to further deteriorate working conditions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭ Ferris_Bueller


    jarasanew wrote: »
    Dropped Out
    I just wanted to report that I have decided to drop out from this course. Yes, I am going to loose the €7500 already spent. But I can not justify spending another €10,000 on it (2nd yr fees plus mandatory Gaeltacht fees). I have come to see that the opportunities in primary teaching, in Ireland, are not what they seemed. Nearly all my classmates are justifying the expense by saying that they will find work abroad but that is not an option for me. I am thoroughly disillusioned with the methods of teaching and lack of academic support at Hibernia. I find their assignments unnecessarily complex and time consuming. The actual time for real learning of teaching is minimal. There has been a complete lack of empathy from college staff that I have been in contact with. It usually amounts to 'everyone else can get on with it so why can't you?' They make no allowances for mature, independent students with real world issues such as kids, family, and work commitments (even though their advertising lets on that we are catered for). The vast majority of my classmates are living with parents and don't have to work to support themselves - this would make it a lot easier! I would still love to be a teacher but I can achieve this in other ways. I have received a job offer in another area of my expertise that involves lecturing opportunities and I intend to follow that. I salute all those who have gotten through the PMEP at Hibernia. It's far from easy.

    Sorry to hear that you've dropped out but if you're happy with your decision then well done, it sounds like you have another exciting opportunity with the new job.

    In the past 2 months since you first started this thread I have to say my eyes have been opened to some of the same issues that you expressed early on, the part in bold in particular I have to agree with. It feels like there is very little time to actually take stuff in and it's a case of treading water just trying to get through all of the work that they throw at you. For example, almost everyone in my group fell behind on the on demand lectures when the first assignment was due (priority to the assignment of course), but then by the time that was submitted we had another assignment straight away and the on demand lectures were still coming thick and fast. I would say that most people in my group are now weeks (if not more!) behind on the on demand lectures and the reality is we will probably never do them - just skip over them and try to get back on track with the next set of lectures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 jarasanew


    almost everyone in my group fell behind on the on demand lectures when the first assignment was due (priority to the assignment of course), but then by the time that was submitted we had another assignment straight away and the on demand lectures were still coming thick and fast. I would say that most people in my group are now weeks (if not more!) behind on the on demand lectures and the reality is we will probably never do them - just skip over them and try to get back on track with the next set of lectures.

    Yes, it was the same situation in my group. Anything that wasn't directly assessed was passed over because there simply wasn't enough time to do it all. I think that college staff must be aware of this but I suppose they need to pad out the course with loads of modules to satisfy Teaching Council / Dept of Ed. I wish you the best. I wasn't able for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,862 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    amacca wrote: »
    Agreed that the flexibility of how you can train is to be welcomed but....

    Im not so sure training way way more people for positions than there are positions is such a great idea for teachers or students or the trainees 12k per year for a qualification that has much reduced chances of a full time position and whose working conditions are degrading day by day is to be lauded quite so much.

    As far as I can see this benefits those providing the courses treating entrants as cash cows and Govt side who would like a lever to further deteriorate working conditions.

    Sorry but I disagree completely.

    Having more and more options to study to become a teacher can only be a good thing. If you disagree with that fundamental point, then you are not an educator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭ jimbobaloobob


    €12000 for the course is reasonable when you consider the possibility to still earn in some shape or form while doing the course.
    If you were to go to a bricks and mortar college. The total costs are likely to be much more significant with longer course duration, Accomodation, inability to remain in same work or work at all due to course timetable and course format.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,944 ✭✭✭ amacca


    markodaly wrote: »
    Sorry but I disagree completely.

    Having more and more options to study to become a teacher can only be a good thing. If you disagree with that fundamental point, then you are not an educator.

    In your opinion............Ive given some compelling reasons why it may not be such a good idea.

    I won't accuse you of not being an "educator" simply because you don't agree with me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,862 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    amacca wrote: »
    In your opinion............Ive given some compelling reasons why it may not be such a good idea.

    I won't accuse you of not being an "educator" simply because you don't agree with me.

    No, the only reasons you gave were concerns about your own working conditions, dressed up as concerns about the quality of teachers coming out of these places.

    Not everyone has been lucky to have a stable home environment when they are teenagers, that go on to do a relatively good LC and then go into teacher training.

    There is a wide and diverse range of people out there who would make great teachers, due to their life experience alone.

    The best academic people rarely make the best teachers so the CAO points total is mute. Having more options available to people to avail of teacher training, if they so wish to is only a good thing. We should be doing the same with a whole host of closed professions like the Gardai and Law as well by the way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭ evolving_doors


    The best academic people rarely make the best teachers

    You'll have to educate me as to where the academic research supports that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,862 ✭✭✭✭ markodaly


    You'll have to educate me as to where the academic research supports that.

    Is there academic research that supports the opposite?

    Teachers need a specific set of skills. Patience, empathy, enthusiasm. be good communicators and organisers. Being the best and the brightest and the most academically proficient is rarely one of them.

    Why are most university professors, terrible lecturers? They may be marvelous academics but actually teach a subject? Nope.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭ evolving_doors


    markodaly wrote: »
    Is there academic research that supports the opposite? .

    Dunno fella you made the claim, but if there's no substance behind it then fair enough.
    markodaly wrote: »

    Teachers need a specific set of skills. Patience, empathy, enthusiasm. be good communicators and organisers. Being the best and the brightest and the most academically proficient is rarely one of them. .

    In fairness there are very few professors and PhDs teaching in secondary.

    But at the very least you should have a body of knowledge that's greater than the students.
    markodaly wrote: »

    Why are most university professors, terrible lecturers? They may be marvelous academics but actually teach a subject? Nope.

    Who quantified the number as 'most?

    In any event lecturing isn't the same as teaching.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,944 ✭✭✭ amacca


    markodaly wrote: »
    No, the only reasons you gave were concerns about your own working conditions, dressed up as concerns about the quality of teachers coming out of these places.

    Thats not true, thats either your opinion of what my post was or what you wanted it to be. I'd consider re-reading the post...like any good educator would do.;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭ Triona00


    Hello

    Can anyone tell me who has done or is doing Hibernian course for primary teaching, how many hours do you need to login online for tutorials during the week?

    Is classroom every second Sat?

    How much time off do you get off for the Christmas & summer break?

    Any help much appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭ Ferris_Bueller


    Triona00 wrote: »
    Hello

    Can anyone tell me who has done or is doing Hibernian course for primary teaching, how many hours do you need to login online for tutorials during the week?

    Is classroom every second Sat?

    How much time off do you get off for the Christmas & summer break?

    Any help much appreciated.

    Hi there,

    difficult to say exactly, I would say at the beginning of the course you have roughly one hour long webinar (live) each evening from Monday to Thursday. Then there are probably around 5 'sessions' released every week which you can go through at your own pace. One session could take anything from an hour to two hours depending how thorough you are. It is hard to say for definite how many hours you have to dedicate to online learning each week but in terms of content I would easily say there are 10-15 hours a week.

    The onsite lectures (face to face on Saturdays) change in frequency depending on time of year, generally every second Saturday is probably about right but there were probably months where we had one every week and other times we had none for 4 or 5 weeks.

    At Christmas I'd say you have about 3 weeks 'off', this is without onsites or additional lectures being added online, but most people in my class probably worked on assignments or caught up on lectures over this time. Our summer looked like this:

    June: Most weekends we had onsites and lectures during the week
    July: A week of onsite religion classes, 2 weeks in the gaeltacht.
    August: Written Irish exam and then 'off' for the rest of the month.

    If you have any questions feel free to PM me.


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