electric tugs for pushback

rivegauche

https://www.mototok.com/solutions/pushback-tug

FRAPORT are going to adopt these.
http://www.airliners.de/flughafen-frankfurt-schlepper/47432

Opinions? Yay, Nay, Atari Jaguar.

edit: my opinion; I think they look great but never had occassion to use one

smurfjed

Sure why not? We have used them for years in various airports.

BZ

Great little bit of kit. Lektro Tugs something similar and can now push 757 and 767.

Nibs05

EI had 1 on trial last summer. Great bit of kit. Not sure if EI still has it.

afatbollix

LHR T5 has them for T5 A building. You only need one person to operate instead of two which helps.

Also, they are better than the huge diesels that are used at the moment.

Very impressed with how small they are compared to the ones used at the moment. Be interesting to see what happens when its a bit icy.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

What's the reason for lifting the nose gear?

Irish Steve

There is a clamp device that grabs the nose wheel, so in order to be able to move the aircraft, the tyres have to be lifted off the ground, as they are unable to rotate while the tug is connected.

Carawaystick

What's the benefit to a battery/fuel cell powered standard tug?

BZ

Carawaystick wrote: »

What's the benefit to a battery/fuel cell powered standard tug?

More environmentally friendly and less expensive to run than a large diesel tug.

donkey balls

I remember seeing something similar like this back in the 00 at Dub from memory it was connected to the MLG strut off a 737, Having looked at the vids in the link one has a BA push back with just the push back operator, Then the one in DXB has two one doing the headset the other operating the tug.
From a safety aspect I wonder will we see one operation push backs in the future as it seems the last of the two man jobs left on the ramp.

Irish Steve

Last of the two man jobs? In theory, if it's done properly, it should be at least 4 man. One driving (or operating) the tug device, another on the headset, and (especially for wide body aircraft) 2 wing walkers, to ensure wing tip clearance. The headset man is also a safety thing, to ensure that there is more than one person under the nose of the aircraft and dealing with things like the push back bar (not needed for electric tugs) and the steering pin, among other safety issues, and getting the tug device safely disconnected from the aircraft.

donkey balls

Ah I'm well aware about the need for the wing walkers, Just with the vid of the BA push back I was thinking will the push back crews be getting trimmed down.
I bet you some bean counter has looked at this as a cost saving initiative over a safety one.

Bog Man 1

Could an aircraft move under its own power with the Tug attached ? Can you see the tug from the cockpit ?
What weight is the Tug and I presume you need bigger ones for bigger planes .
I presume they have Diesel engines . The transmissions must be fairly beefy to get the weight moving .

bkehoe

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Could an aircraft move under its own power with the Tug attached ? Can you see the tug from the cockpit ?
What weight is the Tug and I presume you need bigger ones for bigger planes .
I presume they have Diesel engines . The transmissions must be fairly beefy to get the weight moving .

On the 737 if its a towbarless tug (i.e. lifting type) then you certainly can't see it from the flight deck in a normal seating position and for a normal tug with towbar depending on how big it is you may have to make an effort to sit up higher to see it. Sometimes you actually have to open the window and stick your head out to see if there's a tug down there! In AMS one person pushbacks are pretty common using towbarless tugs on narrow body a/c.

I suspect the towbarless tugs are easier to drive and position the a/c given they've less coupling points. If you think reversing a trailer on a car is a challenge you'll appreciate the job the pushback guys do.

Twenty Grand

BZ wrote: »

More environmentally friendly and less expensive to run than a large diesel tug.

Probably less maintenance too.

markpb

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Could an aircraft move under its own power with the Tug attached ?

I could be wrong but I think there's a safety pin in the nose wheel which is removed by the tug operator and disables power and steering from the plane.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

I presume they have Diesel engines . The transmissions must be fairly beefy to get the weight moving .

Someone didn't read the title of the thread

Jacovs

markpb wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think there's a safety pin in the nose wheel which is removed by the tug operator and disables power and steering from the plane.

Disables steering only. Power comes from the engines which has nothing to do with the safety pin. Another reason for a headsetman that is in contact with the cockpit, make sure guys on the ground know which engine is started up and when.

billy few mates

Bog Man 1 wrote: »

Could an aircraft move under its own power with the Tug attached ? Can you see the tug from the cockpit ?
What weight is the Tug and I presume you need bigger ones for bigger planes .
I presume they have Diesel engines . The transmissions must be fairly beefy to get the weight moving .

Technically they can, in reality they don't. Its called power back, where the aircraft uses the engine thrust reversers to push the aircraft back to a position where it can taxi off itself.
I've seen a B747 do it once and I honestly thought the windows on the crew room in front of the aircraft were going to come in on top of us.
I'm not aware of any airport that allows it for obvious reasons, the main ones being it requires clinical levels of stand cleanliness for FOD and the jet blast hazard it creates for ground staff.

billy few mates

markpb wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think there's a safety pin in the nose wheel which is removed by the tug operator and disables power and steering from the plane.

Steering bypass pin. It's inserted into the steering bypass valve to disable the nose wheel steering on Engine start allowing the nose wheel to castor during push back.
When the engines start the engine driven hydraulic pumps fire up and start delivering full pressure, if the pin wasn't inserted the hydraulic pressure would centre the nose wheel causing damage or serious injury.

Stanford

Irish Steve wrote: »

There is a clamp device that grabs the nose wheel, so in order to be able to move the aircraft, the tyres have to be lifted off the ground, as they are unable to rotate while the tug is connected.

Do you mean the nose gear tyres can't rotate?

Stovepipe

When the lifter comes up to the nose leg, it has a split ramp that folds around the tyres, in front and behind and then the vehicle "squats" and lifts the aircraft about six inches, so that the tyres are completely clear of the ground. The lockout pin, as BFM has described, has isolated the nosewheel steering from the captain's tiller so that the movement of the lifter vehicle now moves the nosewheels and steers the aircraft. When the combination reaches the point on the taxiway where the aircraft is to cast off, the captain is asked to apply the brakes and the aircraft is lowered and the lifter unfolds the ramp and drives clear. The person responsible for the pin takes it out of the nosewheel disconnect box, confirms that the box has reset itself and then walks out into view of the captain and shows him the pin and clears away from the aircraft and makes sure that the tug driver also clears away. The captain is now free to power up and move off...........Incidentally, electric unmanned steering vehicles have been trialled in Dublin, back in the days of EI 737s, but were very unreliable and were prone to going off on their own across the ramp.

L1011

Did anything ever come of Airbus trialling electric onboard taxiing and positioning gear? Would eliminate tugs and keep engines off until next for takeoff

Stovepipe

probably too heavy.

Bussywussy

L1011 wrote: »

Did anything ever come of Airbus trialling electric onboard taxiing and positioning gear? Would eliminate tugs and keep engines off until next for takeoff

Lufthansa had some electric motors installed on A320s for trial,I think the weight of the equipment negated everything.