Office facilities - is this allowed?

ChipChop732

Hi,

I've some question regarding my open office workspace, as I'm sure it's bad for our health. I'm wondering if this is allowed at all:

- There are no windows at all, which means we go months without seeing daylight and we have only artificial light. There is a high rate of depression and migraines, which I'm certain this contributes to.
- We have no fresh air, ever! Therefore, we also have no way of controlling the temperature, which is often 24 degrees and is unbearable for some, particularly the pregnant women. There are some vents directly over a few people throughout the office, but that just means they need blankets to put around their shoulders against the draft, whereas those beside them are roasting hot.
- All desks are a standard height with no option to adjust it. However, HR and senior managers do have height adjustable desks. Us norm folk, all sit in rows at the same height whether they're 4ft or 7ft. This is obviously a big health concern. We also don't have monitors that can adjust in height.
- We had an ergonomic assessment by a third party, who seemed appalled at all this and recommended lots of recommendations for individual people's workspaces, as well as the workspace overall, however nothing has been done since and it has been 6 months.

These are the main concerns, especially as they are affecting people's health and this is also used in disciplinary hearings regarding absenteeism.

So any advice on this is very welcome!

Thanks

whippet

Advise ? Look for another job

Your employer obviously has no interest in the comfort of the staff ... find one who does.

dreamers75

Jennychops wrote: »

- We had an ergonomic assessment by a third party,

Employers are obliged to ensure that certain criteria are met for any worker on their premises.

https://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/health-and-welfare-at-work-act-2005/

These are guidelines and use general terms but in the context of your place.

Your options are (not legal advice):

Leave.

Complain about conditions in writing, when nothing is done. Leave and claim constructive dismissal cite your letter as reason (keep all correspondence).

Refuse to work in those conditions and be sacked and claim for unfair dismissal (ensure you have your complaint in writing and any all correspondence.

There is a running theme in these options.

Samuel T. Cogley

dreamers75 wrote: »

Employers are obliged to ensure that certain criteria are met for any worker on their premises.

https://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/health-and-welfare-at-work-act-2005/

These are guidelines and use general terms but in the context of your place.

Your options are (not legal advice):

Leave.

Complain about conditions in writing, when nothing is done. Leave and claim constructive dismissal cite your letter as reason (keep all correspondence).

Refuse to work in those conditions and be sacked and claim for unfair dismissal (ensure you have your complaint in writing and any all correspondence.

There is a running theme in these options.

Not great advice tbh. Your last two options would be very unlikely to succeed, even if they did the OP could find themselves black balled.

If you want to make it official OP raise a grievance. I'm not really sure what you're expecting done though, you're not going to magic up windows.

nuac

Mod
This is such an unlikely situation, I wonder is it genuine or just a wind-up?
Poster is in Galway area?

368100

I'd say this is Genuine....OP is there no aircon in the office? We have windows but they're locked as opening them affects the efficiency of the aircon.

ChipChop732

nuac wrote: »

Mod
This is such an unlikely situation, I wonder is it genuine or just a wind-up?
Poster is in Galway area?

I'm sad to say that this is a genuine question and that this working situation is very real. The answers here and your assessment of it being such an unlikely situation have really opened my eyes as to how unacceptable our working conditions really are. If you need to know anything else about the validity of my post, just let me know.

ChipChop732

368100 wrote: »

I'd say this is Genuine....OP is there no aircon in the office? We have windows but they're locked as opening them affects the efficiency of the aircon.

We do have some kind of aircon system, and that air comes through several vents on the floor that makes the employees sitting under it very cold, but the average temp on the floor is 23-24 degrees, which is so warm when you're working. We often request to have the floor cooler, but nothing gets done.

byhookorbycrook

One of our staff works in what is essentially an attic space with no windows and a small glass panel in the door. Heating is a portable Dimplex that gets put on when she arrives. No air con, unless you count opening the door.Desk is a standard height and can't be adjusted. Such conditions do exist.

368100

Jennychops wrote: »

We do have some kind of aircon system, and that air comes through several vents on the floor that makes the employees sitting under it very cold, but the average temp on the floor is 23-24 degrees, which is so warm when you're working. We often request to have the floor cooler, but nothing gets done.

I dont think Id stick no windows and artificial light long term......Im afraid unless they move you to a new office, I think leaving is probably the only thing you can do. Not sure if theres anybody to report it to...if its causing migranes and a lot were off sick they might take notice with the lost productivity

Edit: actually the Health and Safety authority do just that:

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/About_Us/About_the_Health_and_Safety_Authority.html

Health and safety at work act 1989

fergus1001

nuac wrote:

Mod This is such an unlikely situation, I wonder is it genuine or just a wind-up? Poster is in Galway area?

to be fair I've come across a few nimbies like this in my time, spend more time complaining than working

if you were working hard you would notice half that stuff !

ChipChop732

fergus1001 wrote: »

to be fair I've come across a few nimbies like this in my time, spend more time complaining than working

if you were working hard you would notice half that stuff !

Wow. Unhelpful, judgemental, and terrible grammar. I wonder what you thought you were adding to the thread.

GreeBo

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Not great advice tbh. Your last two options would be very unlikely to succeed, even if they did the OP could find themselves black balled.

If you want to make it official OP raise a grievance. I'm not really sure what you're expecting done though, you're not going to magic up windows.

black balled?

I'm not certain but i don't believe the OP is working for a large multinational or anyone who could black ball anyone.

Wildly Boaring

Make a report to the HSA.

Even anonymously.

They are generally good to pay a visit to the workplace when "invited"

More likely to act if you can find out the name of your local inspector and write to them directly. Most construction foreman/managers in your area will know them if you know any.

While I cannot actually think of a part that would be illegal as such, the combination of such an amount of poor conditions does not meet the criteria of a safe working environment. I suppose if there were a number of items highlighted on VDU assesment and then not closed....the sunlight would really bother me but they cant really do much without moving office.

At the end of the day a building site in the rain constitutes a sate working environment for certain works however these could surely be better.

NUTLEY BOY

For interest OP, did you join the company and these working conditions or was there a change in layout / location / conditions after you started ?

If the latter, I wonder if a trade union might not be able to do something about this as the bigger ones have the knowledge and experience in dealing with this sort of issue.

GM228

Jennychops wrote: »

- There are no windows at all, which means we go months without seeing daylight and we have only artificial light. There is a high rate of depression and migraines, which I'm certain this contributes to.

Employers are obliged to ensure your place of work receives "sufficient natural light", however the requirement is "as far as possible".

Jennychops wrote: »

- We have no fresh air, ever! Therefore, we also have no way of controlling the temperature, which is often 24 degrees and is unbearable for some, particularly the pregnant women. There are some vents directly over a few people throughout the office, but that just means they need blankets to put around their shoulders against the draft, whereas those beside them are roasting hot.

Employers are obliged to ensure you have sufficient fresh air even in enclosed work places, they are also obliged to ensure there are no drafts, the temperarure is "appropriate for human beings" and a minimum temperature of 16° is achievable.

Jennychops wrote: »

- All desks are a standard height with no option to adjust it. However, HR and senior managers do have height adjustable desks. Us norm folk, all sit in rows at the same height whether they're 4ft or 7ft. This is obviously a big health concern. We also don't have monitors that can adjust in height.

Desks are not required to be adjustable, however there must be sufficient room for comfort as well as allow for change of position and vary your movement, chairs must be height and tilt adjustable (when working with computers).

Samuel T. Cogley

GreeBo wrote: »

black balled?

I'm not certain but i don't believe the OP is working for a large multinational or anyone who could black ball anyone.

Ireland is a very small place. If you go down the litigation route you pay the price, sadly.

Cocobeans101

nuac wrote: »

Mod
This is such an unlikely situation, I wonder is it genuine or just a wind-up?
Poster is in Galway area?

I work as a consultant for the last 15 years. I've been in a lot of offices and more than one like this. And one specifically in Galway. Especially offices attached to manufacturing plants etc...

BattleCorp

nuac wrote: »

Mod
This is such an unlikely situation, I wonder is it genuine or just a wind-up?
Poster is in Galway area?

I work in a health and safety related role and unfortunately, the working conditions that the OP outlined are far more common than you think.

It may be a wind up but I wouldn't dismiss it straight away.

dreamers75

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Not great advice tbh. Your last two options would be very unlikely to succeed, even if they did the OP could find themselves black balled.

If you want to make it official OP raise a grievance. I'm not really sure what you're expecting done though, you're not going to magic up windows.

Blackballed? Seriously you think its hard to get a job in any sector in Ireland right now.

GreeBo wrote: »

black balled?

I'm not certain but i don't believe the OP is working for a large multinational or anyone who could black ball anyone.

Correct but irrelevant, companies want the best and blackballing exists in very few specific sectors.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I work in a health and safety related role and unfortunately, the working conditions that the OP outlined are far more common than you think.

It may be a wind up but I wouldn't dismiss it straight away.

Also work in H and S and if they brought in a consultant who noted X issues and did nothing.

I gave my advice above based on that.